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PrintableByron said: I must be one of the few who doesn't give a rat's ass that the Revolution broke up, or why lol
 ...im with you Jules | |
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gogol said: ShinNihonKikou said: Yeah but, he let Tony M contribute to a lot of his early 90's work and concerts. To me, that's a huge step down. A fake rapper vs. two talented musicians. Why did the Revolution break up? IMHO... Prince was starting to hang with a lot more people, like those bodyguards turned dancers. A lot of people thought Prince dissed the black music scene by making (so-called) white albums like ATWIAD and Parade. Warner Bros would only allow one album release per year which caused Prince to keep refining his albums instead of releasing them when they were completed... thus Dream Factory turned into (almost) a Prince solo project as he kept adding songs like Sign o' the Times, The Cross, and deleting songs the band worked on together. Plus he broke up with Susannah which probably caused tensions within the band. Quite simply, they broke up for a lot of reasons. However, his attitude towards Wendy and Lisa is very suspect. They seem to be mad about not getting paid much during the time period, and not getting enough recognition for their contribution. And, when Prince wanted to "finish" Roadhouse Garden, all Wendy and Lisa asked for was to be paid for their time. To me it seems like a very simple request. Prince denied them that (so it seems), so the album was never finished. For some reason, it appears he wants them to work for free. Didn't they mention that he doesn't pay them at all and just sends tracks to them via email, they put some work on it, and send it back? In the end, his music definitely did suffer when Wendy and Lisa left. Albums like Diamonds and Pearls and Symbol are good because of Prince, but so bad because of contributions of people like Tony M and Prince trying to appease the black music crowd. I mean how does a true musician go from working with two talented musicians to Tony M? I'm getting off track, so I'll end this post. So why aren't Lisa and Wendy's albums any good? Your saying they aren't any good? They are good and their latest I listen to more than Prince's latest | |
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vivid said: OldFriends4Sale said: I read something like that too, but that was just a smoke screen Especially since the band he had since 4U was basically the same band he had up to Dream Factory Andre Cymone left on his own, then right around the same time Gayle left Bobby Z was with him since 76 Andre since the beginning Dr Fink since For U Brown Mark since Prince/Dirty Mind Dez since For U Lisa Coleman since Prince/Dirty Mind the band never 'changed' the dynamic was the same Dr Fink stayed and Prince also wanted BrownMark to stay ...Levi was last resort Wendy & Lisa were dismissed because of emotional/personal/business conflict with Prince It was after the Lovesexy era that the bands changed up regularly, but a big part of that was because the musicians were in for the long haul [Edited 8/3/09 14:20pm] Andre, Gayle, and Dez all left. Wendy, Mark, Mico, Eric, and Bliss all joined. How could it have stayed the same? He may not have been changing his band like he does these days, but the band was hardly a fixed unit throughout the 80s. Andre & Gayle weren't around long barely 2 years before being replaced by Lisa & BrownMark What I'm saying is the band that became known as the Revolution was with Prince since 1979-1986:Lisa Coleman, BrownMark, Dr Fink, Bobby Z. Dez was in the band up to 1982/83 The people in Prince's camp were all there to various degrees I think as far as dynamic it made a difference when the SOTT/Lovesexy band hits the scene 97% of the band were already bathed in the Purple Rain, Cat was the only true new member, Levi & Boni were in Sheila's band and performing even during the late years of the Romance 1600 Mico studio guitarist and Sheila E's guitarist 4 the Glamorous Life/PR Eric Leeds guest sax during the 2nd half of the PR years the 2 male dancers were bodyguards/friend of Prince who came on board as dancers/singers during the Parade era | |
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HonestMan13 said: Dream Factory/Crystal Ball wound up becoming Sign O' the Times beacuse Warner Brothers didn't approve of releasing a 3 CD set at that point in Prince's career. He whittled it down and we got Sign O' the Times. The Revolution's input on the album was basically rerecorded out. There's a "Dream Factory" bootleg that has some of the original tracks with more influence from Wendy & Lisa vocally and musically. They basically grew apart and when he broke up with Susannah it made things weird in the group. He decided to move in another direction and let most of the band go. Dr.Fink, Miko Weaver, Eric Leeds, Atlanta Bliss and Greg & Wally all remained and everyone else got booted. Replaced by Sheila E., Boni Boyer, Levi Seacer Jr. and Cat. This actually started a point where Prince more or less had a touring band and not an actually "named" group in his career. Even though the were unofficially referred to as the "Lovesexy Band".
By the way don't let some of these orgers get to you. There are some great people on here with a lot of positive insights and memories. There are also at least 15 total douchebags who hop on every thread to bring value to their miserable existences. Peace young brother.  Another added part from Alan Leeds to lead to the break up was Prince did some stuff to Wendy -seperately and Lisa -seperately that really got to them and they were actually going to split on the Parade tour and Alan Leeds talked them back. One of the things with Wendy was Prince fined her for drinking a beer at the hotel. They already weren't getting little pay. I agree the 'Lovesexy' band was a touring band since the SOTT/Black/Lovesexy years seemed to be on the road non stop. SOTT is really a Prince & the Revolution album like you said. He might have not given full credits but we know what's up, Susannah is also on songs like Play In the Sunshine Starfish and Coffee | |
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OldFriends4Sale said: vivid said: Andre, Gayle, and Dez all left. Wendy, Mark, Mico, Eric, and Bliss all joined. How could it have stayed the same? He may not have been changing his band like he does these days, but the band was hardly a fixed unit throughout the 80s. Andre & Gayle weren't around long barely 2 years before being replaced by Lisa & BrownMark What I'm saying is the band that became known as the Revolution was with Prince since 1979-1986:Lisa Coleman, BrownMark, Dr Fink, Bobby Z. Dez was in the band up to 1982/83 The people in Prince's camp were all there to various degrees I think as far as dynamic it made a difference when the SOTT/Lovesexy band hits the scene 97% of the band were already bathed in the Purple Rain, Cat was the only true new member, Levi & Boni were in Sheila's band and performing even during the late years of the Romance 1600 Mico studio guitarist and Sheila E's guitarist 4 the Glamorous Life/PR Eric Leeds guest sax during the 2nd half of the PR years the 2 male dancers were bodyguards/friend of Prince who came on board as dancers/singers during the Parade era Prince grew up with Andre and was in bands with him for years! And I am well aware of when all the others joined and came from (I was following this stuff avidly in the 80s when it was happening), but just don't see your point. Are you trying to say now that the 87-88 band was just an extension of the Revolution? | |
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vivid said: OldFriends4Sale said: Andre & Gayle weren't around long barely 2 years before being replaced by Lisa & BrownMark What I'm saying is the band that became known as the Revolution was with Prince since 1979-1986:Lisa Coleman, BrownMark, Dr Fink, Bobby Z. Dez was in the band up to 1982/83 The people in Prince's camp were all there to various degrees I think as far as dynamic it made a difference when the SOTT/Lovesexy band hits the scene 97% of the band were already bathed in the Purple Rain, Cat was the only true new member, Levi & Boni were in Sheila's band and performing even during the late years of the Romance 1600 Mico studio guitarist and Sheila E's guitarist 4 the Glamorous Life/PR Eric Leeds guest sax during the 2nd half of the PR years the 2 male dancers were bodyguards/friend of Prince who came on board as dancers/singers during the Parade era Prince grew up with Andre and was in bands with him for years! And I am well aware of when all the others joined and came from (I was following this stuff avidly in the 80s when it was happening), but just don't see your point. Are you trying to say now that the 87-88 band was just an extension of the Revolution? Thats right, Andre was childhood friends with Prince he was there when with Prince when he was trying to get a recorde deal,so was Bobby Z Prince's band/band dynamic in my opinion was pretty much the same from 1979-1986 outside of the switch from Dez-Wendy(who was also in the camp since 1980) not an extension but the thing that I did love about the SOTT band was that they were a part of that whole Erotic City/Paisley Park vision, I think they interpreted & appreciated the music differently | |
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TheKing662 said: What's your reason/opinion the Revolution broke up?
This is pure speculation so take it for what it's worth,but I remember there was an article in Black Beat magazine about the break-up of the Revolution.An "insider" claimed Prince broke up the Revolution because of....The Time! If you'll recall,back in 1986,there were alot of rumors about a Time reunion.Supposedly,they were gonna do a big movie with Janet Jackson,and A&M Records even offered them a record deal for the soundtrack.This was big news in the music world back then.According to this insider,"He (Prince) knows that if the Time reunion thing really happens,they're gonna come out smokin'.He doesn't want to be caught with his pants down." A year or so earlier,Prince admitted that the Time were becoming "like Godzilla.They were the only band that I was ever afraid of".Perhaps he didn't wanna risk getting overshadowed by a reinvigorated Time? | |
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SoulAlive said: TheKing662 said: What's your reason/opinion the Revolution broke up?
This is pure speculation so take it for what it's worth,but I remember there was an article in Black Beat magazine about the break-up of the Revolution.An "insider" claimed Prince broke up the Revolution because of....The Time! If you'll recall,back in 1986,there were alot of rumors about a Time reunion.Supposedly,they were gonna do a big movie with Janet Jackson,and A&M Records even offered them a record deal for the soundtrack.This was big news in the music world back then.According to this insider,"He (Prince) knows that if the Time reunion thing really happens,they're gonna come out smokin'.He doesn't want to be caught with his pants down." A year or so earlier,Prince admitted that the Time were becoming "like Godzilla.They were the only band that I was ever afraid of".Perhaps he didn't wanna risk getting overshadowed by a reinvigorated Time? I think it was just rumored talk, I do remember bits of this, and even that Prince was supposed to do some work on Janet's Control album the Time vs the Revolution(pre Revolution) band, I don't think can compare, they did very different styles and sounds of music Also the fact that a lot of the Time & Sheila E sounds/songs were stuff that came from Prince and various members of his band | |
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TheKing662 said: TwiliteKid said: Indeed. She's [Name calling snip - luv4u]. [Bait snip - luv4u] [Quit with the baiting and name calling. Not a good idea to ruin the discussion thread folks - luv4u] 
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture! REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince "I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben |
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moderatorThere might have been several reasons, but one specific reason I dont see mentioned a lot was one that musiccritic Nelson George pointed me too.
I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something in the vein off: "The Revolution werent exactly sounding better when Prince tried to make them improvise and fasten the tempo of the music (during the Parade tour). In fact, the music became messy sounding. You could also notice they had problems with handling the newer jazz-elements in Princes music". I think he has a point there. In 1985 and 1986 Prince was throwing new influences into his 'mix', especially during the live concerts: jazz, p-funk, orchestrated bridges, compositions with a lot of rhythem changes. I think some members of the Revolution simply had problems dealing with that, especially Bobby Z (fine on the 'basic' funk-rock stuff, but not very versatile and technically proficient) and Brown Mark (a mediocre bassist IMO, stiff and lacking 'guts') Wendy and Lisa were importance to him around that time as co-songwriters and arrangers in the STUDIO, but not performers which were unreplacable on stage. To put it short: Prince was demanding 'more' from his bandmembers on stage, and some of them couldnt cope with he wanted to achieve live, so he replaced them with other musicians. | |
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Riverpoet31 said: There might have been several reasons, but one specific reason I dont see mentioned a lot was one that musiccritic Nelson George pointed me too.
I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something in the vein off: "The Revolution werent exactly sounding better when Prince tried to make them improvise and fasten the tempo of the music (during the Parade tour). In fact, the music became messy sounding. You could also notice they had problems with handling the newer jazz-elements in Princes music". I think he has a point there. In 1985 and 1986 Prince was throwing new influences into his 'mix', especially during the live concerts: jazz, p-funk, orchestrated bridges, compositions with a lot of rhythem changes. I think some members of the Revolution simply had problems dealing with that, especially Bobby Z (fine on the 'basic' funk-rock stuff, but not very versatile and technically proficient) and Brown Mark (a mediocre bassist IMO, stiff and lacking 'guts') Wendy and Lisa were importance to him around that time as co-songwriters and arrangers in the STUDIO, but not performers which were unreplacable on stage. To put it short: Prince was demanding 'more' from his bandmembers on stage, and some of them couldnt cope with he wanted to achieve live, so he replaced them with other musicians. History PROVES.....Prince made the correct decision. | |
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Riverpoet31 said: There might have been several reasons, but one specific reason I dont see mentioned a lot was one that musiccritic Nelson George pointed me too.
I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something in the vein off: "The Revolution werent exactly sounding better when Prince tried to make them improvise and fasten the tempo of the music (during the Parade tour). In fact, the music became messy sounding. You could also notice they had problems with handling the newer jazz-elements in Princes music". I think he has a point there. In 1985 and 1986 Prince was throwing new influences into his 'mix', especially during the live concerts: jazz, p-funk, orchestrated bridges, compositions with a lot of rhythem changes. I think some members of the Revolution simply had problems dealing with that, especially Bobby Z (fine on the 'basic' funk-rock stuff, but not very versatile and technically proficient) and Brown Mark (a mediocre bassist IMO, stiff and lacking 'guts') Wendy and Lisa were importance to him around that time as co-songwriters and arrangers in the STUDIO, but not performers which were unreplacable on stage. To put it short: Prince was demanding 'more' from his bandmembers on stage, and some of them couldnt cope with he wanted to achieve live, so he replaced them with other musicians. I could def see this^^^^^....Although I disagree with Lisa...She had classical and jazz chops (as did Dr. Fink, which is why he stayed around the longest), so she definitely could handle the more complex stuff Prince started to do with his Sign O The Times band...But I agree with mostly everything you said in terms of Nelson George's theory on why Prince broke up the Revolution.... | |
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History PROVES.....Prince made the correct decision.
Well i am not totally sure what you mean with that, but IMO 'disbanding the revolution' (which wasnt really the case IMO, his band was going to personal changes rather gradually between 1986 and 1990) has had its pro's and cons. I still think that Wendy and Lisa have brought certain elements to his music (compositionwise and arrangement-wise) that enriched the artistic quality of his output in the period 1985 - 1987 (Yes, Sign of the Times is about half a 'revolution' record). Elements i have missed often after them leaving the band. So, on RECORD they did benefit his music. On the other hand. I could not have seen the Revolution in its 1985/1986 form pull of the Lovesexy-album and tour. Music that simply 'asked' for more technically skilled musicians. And yes, on stage Michael Bland and Sonny Thompson were IMO a far better rhythem-section then Bobby Z and Brownmark. But did those more technically skilled musicians automatically mean better music on the albums? I dont think so. As others have said before, The Revolution were basically the band that Prince 'grew up' with (not forgetting Dez and Andre here). The band that accompanied him from his artistic breakthrough (Dirty Mind) to his commercial breakthrough (Purple Rain). The band that gave him two musical companions (Wendy and Lisa) with whom he did write, compose and record a lot of his material in the years after Purple Rain. With all that comes a special 'connection', a bond. And you can hear that in his music from the eighties: a certain level of depth, intelligence, artistry he has never really rivaled since. | |
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Riverpoet31 said: History PROVES.....Prince made the correct decision.
Well i am not totally sure what you mean with that, but IMO 'disbanding the revolution' (which wasnt really the case IMO, his band was going to personal changes rather gradually between 1986 and 1990) has had its pro's and cons. I still think that Wendy and Lisa have brought certain elements to his music (compositionwise and arrangement-wise) that enriched the artistic quality of his output in the period 1985 - 1987 (Yes, Sign of the Times is about half a 'revolution' record). Elements i have missed often after them leaving the band. So, on RECORD they did benefit his music. On the other hand. I could not have seen the Revolution in its 1985/1986 form pull of the Lovesexy-album and tour. Music that simply 'asked' for more technically skilled musicians. And yes, on stage Michael Bland and Sonny Thompson were IMO a far better rhythem-section then Bobby Z and Brownmark. But did those more technically skilled musicians automatically mean better music on the albums? I dont think so. As others have said before, The Revolution were basically the band that Prince 'grew up' with (not forgetting Dez and Andre here). The band that accompanied him from his artistic breakthrough (Dirty Mind) to his commercial breakthrough (Purple Rain). The band that gave him two musical companions (Wendy and Lisa) with whom he did write, compose and record a lot of his material in the years after Purple Rain. With all that comes a special 'connection', a bond. And you can hear that in his music from the eighties: a certain level of depth, intelligence, artistry he has never really rivaled since. lol.....keep the laughs coming. | |
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OldFriends4Sale said: ranchero4vida said: I think I remember reading in some book that they broke up bcuz of some issues the band members had with how much input they had. yet, I think it was bcuz P felt that he had 2 move on. As Dr Fink once put it, they were just hired hands, they were really only an extension of the "Prince" experience. P is the kind of musician who switches his style uup every one or two albums or so.
I read something like that too, but that was just a smoke screen Especially since the band he had since 4U was basically the same band he had up to Dream Factory Andre Cymone left on his own, then right around the same time Gayle left Bobby Z was with him since 76 Andre since the beginning Dr Fink since For U Brown Mark since Prince/Dirty Mind Dez since For U Lisa Coleman since Prince/Dirty Mind the band never 'changed' the dynamic was the same Dr Fink stayed and Prince also wanted BrownMark to stay ...Levi was last resort Wendy & Lisa were dismissed because of emotional/personal/business conflict with Prince It was after the Lovesexy era that the bands changed up regularly, but a big part of that was because the musicians were in for the long haul [Edited 8/3/09 14:20pm] Gayle left before Andre. Brown Mark didnt join until 1981, during the Controversy album. Andre was still in the band during Dirty Mind. Lisa joined during Dirty Mind. And I don't know about the band members playing with him pre the Prince album if Prince didn't start touring untill after the Prince album came out. Some people think I'm kinda cute
But that don't compute when it comes 2 Y-O-U. | |
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RKJCNE said:[quote] milleniumrain said: TheKing662 said: but then when you try and fix something thats not broke we ended up with the new power generation which included tony M. and tommy B looking more gay than prince.
[/b] [Edited 8/3/09 3:04am] Really. thats tasteless. wow i did not say this quote | |
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Riverpoet31 said: History PROVES.....Prince made the correct decision.
Well i am not totally sure what you mean with that, but IMO 'disbanding the revolution' (which wasnt really the case IMO, his band was going to personal changes rather gradually between 1986 and 1990) has had its pro's and cons. I still think that Wendy and Lisa have brought certain elements to his music (compositionwise and arrangement-wise) that enriched the artistic quality of his output in the period 1985 - 1987 (Yes, Sign of the Times is about half a 'revolution' record). Elements i have missed often after them leaving the band. So, on RECORD they did benefit his music. On the other hand. I could not have seen the Revolution in its 1985/1986 form pull of the Lovesexy-album and tour. Music that simply 'asked' for more technically skilled musicians. And yes, on stage Michael Bland and Sonny Thompson were IMO a far better rhythem-section then Bobby Z and Brownmark. But did those more technically skilled musicians automatically mean better music on the albums? I dont think so. As others have said before, The Revolution were basically the band that Prince 'grew up' with (not forgetting Dez and Andre here). The band that accompanied him from his artistic breakthrough (Dirty Mind) to his commercial breakthrough (Purple Rain). The band that gave him two musical companions (Wendy and Lisa) with whom he did write, compose and record a lot of his material in the years after Purple Rain. With all that comes a special 'connection', a bond. And you can hear that in his music from the eighties: a certain level of depth, intelligence, artistry he has never really rivaled since. totally agree with you post. great thoughts Interestingly, if the Revolution remained we probably would not have had Lovesexy Plus we would probably have had a wide range of music still coming out of Paisley Park then by Jill Sheila E's album wouldn't have been cut short Mazarati might have been on a higher plain I think they could have easily pulled it off, because chemistry and connection does something that just can't be duplicated I'd say Fink & Lisa were probably on higher levels of Technical skill than Boni Lisa's training and background in jazz and classical composition had her on a level with Prince And the fact that Prince wanted BrownMark (I've heard his music and albums after he left and I don't see Levi being any better) Musicians get better as time goes by | |
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Riverpoet31 said: There might have been several reasons, but one specific reason I dont see mentioned a lot was one that musiccritic Nelson George pointed me too.
I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something in the vein off: "The Revolution werent exactly sounding better when Prince tried to make them improvise and fasten the tempo of the music (during the Parade tour). In fact, the music became messy sounding. You could also notice they had problems with handling the newer jazz-elements in Princes music". I think he has a point there. In 1985 and 1986 Prince was throwing new influences into his 'mix', especially during the live concerts: jazz, p-funk, orchestrated bridges, compositions with a lot of rhythem changes. I think some members of the Revolution simply had problems dealing with that, especially Bobby Z (fine on the 'basic' funk-rock stuff, but not very versatile and technically proficient) and Brown Mark (a mediocre bassist IMO, stiff and lacking 'guts') Wendy and Lisa were importance to him around that time as co-songwriters and arrangers in the STUDIO, but not performers which were unreplacable on stage. To put it short: Prince was demanding 'more' from his bandmembers on stage, and some of them couldnt cope with he wanted to achieve live, so he replaced them with other musicians. A few things that happened post Purple Rain, is there was rushed work the impromptu 1st Avenue shows and shows in general weren't really happening the band size and chemistry increased, a lot of stuff was happening internally sometimes too much change too quickly can mess something up I've heard the 83/84 shows especially 1st Avenue and the technical quality by the band was very high Matt Fink background was in musical theater and just off the chain Lisa in jazz and classical Wendy came from a very musical family too and skilled strongly in rhythm guitar Bobby was a more precise drummer not a flamboyant one from For U - Purple Rain the music was more Funk/Rock/Punk with ballads during Parade the change to Jazz was something totally different for a band I love some of Prince's Jazzy stuff but prefer his Funk/Rock/New Wave stuff I don't know Brown Marks skill in jazz And Prince wasn't a jazz musician Plus SOTT wasn't a jazz album anyway SOTT was mostly music the Revolution worked on with Prince and the sound was a combination work from For U-Parade | |
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Graycap23 said: Riverpoet31 said: There might have been several reasons, but one specific reason I dont see mentioned a lot was one that musiccritic Nelson George pointed me too.
I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something in the vein off: "The Revolution werent exactly sounding better when Prince tried to make them improvise and fasten the tempo of the music (during the Parade tour). In fact, the music became messy sounding. You could also notice they had problems with handling the newer jazz-elements in Princes music". I think he has a point there. In 1985 and 1986 Prince was throwing new influences into his 'mix', especially during the live concerts: jazz, p-funk, orchestrated bridges, compositions with a lot of rhythem changes. I think some members of the Revolution simply had problems dealing with that, especially Bobby Z (fine on the 'basic' funk-rock stuff, but not very versatile and technically proficient) and Brown Mark (a mediocre bassist IMO, stiff and lacking 'guts') Wendy and Lisa were importance to him around that time as co-songwriters and arrangers in the STUDIO, but not performers which were unreplacable on stage. To put it short: Prince was demanding 'more' from his bandmembers on stage, and some of them couldnt cope with he wanted to achieve live, so he replaced them with other musicians. History PROVES.....Prince made the correct decision. you mean loosing his edge? squandering to appease hip hop and trying to be 'down' the disappointments of a lot of decisions during the 1990-2000 years? It was during the 2004/5Musicology album where his momentum picked up it's also when he reconnected with Sheila E. Wendy Melvoin the Time & Lisa Coleman hmmmmm | |
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Prince basically has ADHD and gets bored easily.  | |
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