1982 - On Prince played this



1982 - On Rick played this

[Edited 8/4/09 7:41am]

desinord said:

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"Jim Crow programming at MTV. Lets rewind the clock back to 1982 and if MTV plays those videos from THrowin Down Rick James easily quaduples his catolog sales instantly. Pot-smoking niggers always get crucified when they do there own thing. "
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Pot smoking n****S should get crucified. If Rick had spend less time doing drugs and more time playing music he would have made on to MTV sooner or later.
It is called taking responsiblity for your actions.

You have Teena Marie telling you what was going on and you still can't accept the fact that P was on his game and Rick was not.

So let me get this straight the Minn sound is a rip off of Rick's music yet Rick had to steal P's keyboards to get that Minn sound. Try going back and reading the article and leave the weed alone.

This is what I was thinking.

I love rick and prince

stop hating!

skywalker said:

I guess Tina is a "computer geek" or a "Prince guitar-sucker." So, we obviously can't trust anything she says.
[Edited 8/4/09 10:38am]

minneapolisFunq said:

This was one of the best articles I've read in a long time.

You've got that backwards. Both Rick and Prince came out in 1978. However, Rick's first album "Come Get It" which included "You And I" and "Mary Jane" was much more successful than Prince's "For You" which included "Soft And Wet".

Then in 1979, Rick was still enjoying success with his second album "Bustin' Out Of L Seven" and also released another album that year "Fire It Up" when Prince put out his second album. "I Wanna Be Your Lover" was a success also but it was Prince's first success while Rick already had three albums which all had multiple tracks each being played all over R&B radio.

Rick didn't need Prince to give him any kind of respect whatsoever because he was already getting it. It was Prince that needed Rick. If not, Rick would have been the opening act instead of Prince.




You got that backwards too. Prince opened for Rick in 1980. Prince opened for The Rolling Stones in 1981.

True.



Prince sold well because of radio also. Prince had been all over R&B radio for years before pop radio picked him up and was very successful and he and Rick were both running neck and neck. People act like because the pop crowd hasn't discovered an artist that they weren't getting airplay but there was a whole other world that existed beyond pop radio, it was called R&B radio.

What puzzles me is, why MTV chose to play Prince on their own considering how hard Michael Jackson and his label had to fight to get his videos aired on the channel. It definately was a racist station hiding behind the "we only play rock" arguement but Rick James' "Super Freak" was rock and they refused to play it. Rick fought and badmouthed MTV very loudly. It does make me wonder if they discovered his hatred for Prince, because he badmouthed him very loudly also, and played Prince simply to piss Rick James off.

Whuzz up Bruh B?..Great points. And yes Rick was a huge KISS fan. Even Pyro said it.


Yes MTV was racist back then. But I think MJ was accepted by a lot of moms and dads who were white. He was unassuming, shy and non threatening. So the girls could hang posters up of him and not catch a lot of flack. He was like a "big brother".

P on the other hand, was mysterious and sexual. I think a lot of the moms were turned on by him as well as the daughters. Plus he had the androgony thing going on too. And by 1984-85 he was a household name. So he was safe.

But Rick was "too strong" and "too black". Sure there were white chicks I knew that dug him, but they would have had their asses handed to them if they brought home his music (or had posters up of him on their walls). Dad wouldn't take too kind to that...Jimi was OK because dad dug him back in high school... but not Rick.

And I agree w/ laura. Rick should have just concentrated on himself (and music) in the late 80's. All that energy badmouthing P could have went into something else.

vainandy said:

Don't forget the Martha Quinn factor. She loved her some Princey.

jackson35 said:

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"responed to rick kindness to him by constanly going to his show and cause a scence and ruining the flow of the show.the one thing that pissed me off was when prince had his bodyguard carry him thru out the arena while the mary james girls were performing on stage"

Kindness he put Prince on to get asses in the seats and according to Dez Dickenson
Rick and his people gave Prince and everyone in his band a hard time from day one and to get even they went out on stage and cleaned Rick's clock.

I remember a interview where Andre Cymone said Rick pulled a gun him. You need to read Rick's book he had a lot of issues and I would not call him a nice guy all the time.

I don't think P is a saint but I also doubt he has a history of being a drug dealer, drug user, theif,( Rick never held a job outside of music) and abusive toward woman.

Ohh and he tried his hand at pimping.
[Edited 8/4/09 20:58pm]

please get your facts in order.on the fire it up tour rick james was doing just fine without prince on the ticket,he just felt like having another act on the bill and he just so happen to have heard his second album and decided to give him a shot on his tour even when bigger acts were begging to be on his tour.as far as blowing prince off the stage on that tour FAT CHANCE the audio i have on this tour say different keep in mind warner bros bribed critics to write nice things about his show at that time cuz his stage show was lacking.

jackson35 said:

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“mind warner bros bribed critics to write nice things about his show at that time cuz his stage show was lacking.”

You have had people on this board who went to those shows who have said that P put on some phenomal performances. I have seen footage of Rick James back then and in all honestly he was not a great performer. A good producer and good songwriter but I can believe P was taking to his head otherwise he would not have been so jealous.

Great reviews from back then and if you want to think it was that deep that critics were bribed go ahead and live in your fantasy world.

You have Teena Marie telling you he was jealous and Rick admitting to it later on and you are still under this delusion

First of of laurarichardson youre not even qualified to give and opinion. WHy? because youre on your own rant and dont even have the facts. I gave Prince his proper credit in the paragraph I wrote. All I did was just give Rick James his. Youre exactly the type of Prince fan I talk about. You cant except the fact that Prince was heavily "infuenced" by the King Of Funk. Prince never had that title, offial or non-official. And then you go on the say pot smoking N***s SHOULD be crucified, you sound just like a motherf***g square with you head stuck up you a##. For another human being to say another human being deserves to be crucified and subject to blatent racism is insane and irresponsible. Almost every single person who calls themself a rock or funk artist from the 60s to the 80s did coke. The only credit I can really give Prince is that he was probably the only major artist besides Mike to not drink or smoke, but all of your Rock icons did it, but for some reason Rick James deserves to obe crucified. Youre a genious sweethear, truth hurts though. By 1982 RIck James already accomplished rock superstardom. 6 funk-rock albums which would later provide the format,structure and swag Prince would later expose to the world. In your measly response you still cant provide a defense to the ruffles worn in the 1982 "throwin down" video nor can you debate the real fact that Rick James is the "embodiment" of Rock N Roll. This website is an anomaly. You guys worship an entertainer who sues you guys left and right and who doesnt give a flying f**k about what you type. Like the slogan says "independent and unofficail" I guarentee you if Prince came into this message board and saw my post he would either request for the topic to be closed or have this site permanently shut down. Hes obviously ashamed to admit he was inluenced by a "drug user". anybody who knows anything about the history of funk will tell you Rick James is the epitome of funk and rock. He played guitar,bass,drums,persussion, composed and arranged and produced his entire catolog but 1 song which is "Big Time". I dont make arguments based on my own opinion. Any true debater presents the facts and let the evidence speak for itself. You got this a**hole electricblue whos best comeback is a guitar and a crackpipe, but he cant give a defense for the "1982" stuff. I am a die-hard Prince fans worst nighmare because I make him look like a fraud. Like I always said Prince is a special rocker and great talent. But all of this nonsense by prince fans is ridiculous. Put it like this, if you cant refute what I say then dont respond but if you have clear proof where my fellow posters can see for themselves. What you got to lose? If you take away any discussion of "drugs" you cant even debate. I love this

I love Rick, but every now and then this debate bubbles up, "if it werent for Rick....". Bob Dylan famously said wayyyy back in the 80's their need be no more "NEW" music because it has all been done, Prince and rick are both proof of that.I dont mind people pointing out the obvious, hell prince was younger and a true sponge, all the genuis guys are, why wouldnt he be impacted by Rick? Rick was the shit. But, the tone is everything, and when the tone gets ugly and we as black folks start playing comspiracy theorist (i doubt anybody on this board was at a 1980"s MTV meeting that determined what they were gonna do) thats when i throw up my hands.When it gets so heated that people arguing the merits of Rick start talking as if Prince was some no talent who put him under a spell and stole his mojo i have to throw up my hands. This aint Rocket Science, the only way it gets complicated is when you inject emotion. When i was younger i couldnt accept that Micheal was BIGGER than Prince in many ways, now i realize that being objective that is the truth-i just got emotional because Prince is my guy. Prince is the better all around Musician (than Rick), it's proven by his body of work and the fact that he is slowly being discovered as an all time great guitarist, something Rick never achieved on his insturment. No matter what mannerisms, styles or whatever else Conspiracy Theorist believe he "stole", he bit from Hendrix, Little Richard, hell some of his Tours had JB styled presentation!. So what?, he made it his own and with all of those collective influences he is widely accepted as one of the greatest live acts in history, I'm pretty sure he reached that mantle with more than the few tricks he learned from Rick.Remember, once this so called rivalry blew over Prince changed his style, presentation and concepts like he was drinking water. By the time your boy decided to rock ruffles Prince was in a suit with waves LOL. Princes longevity alone should destroy this argument, fraud? while Rick was in jail or bitching Prince kept recording, one guy became a dave Chappell punchline, the other became a Hall of Famer. I hate to put it like that ( RIP Rick) but its true, thats what happened, ruffles or no ruffles.
[Edited 8/5/09 10:26am]

dreamshaman32 said:

What more needs to be said than this? Nothing. Truth Ruth.

Look to the post directly below.
[Edited 8/5/09 14:58pm]

dreamshaman32 said:

First of all, I feel compelled to respond to this since you decided to draw from much of what I had ALREADY stated myself. Not only on THIS thread but on other and much better threads than this one regarding Rick and P. First of all, since I'm the cat that first brought up Hendrix and Richard...I'm all about giving credit where credit is due. Meaning folks on this site and elsewhere have a strong tendecy to think that P is The Originator and End To Be All of all things cool. He isn't. So to me, for people to start tripping over some bullshit like ruffles, my point was that neither Rick nor Prince laid the blueprint for that. Image and representation is crucial to an artist and obviously both Rick and P wanted some of what Richard, Hendrix and Sly for that matter, was representing visually. And P didn't start to change his image after every album untill AFTER Purple Rain and that was because he felt at that stage, he could afford to do so. Because he had already cemented in everyone's mind a very specific IMAGE. From Dirty Mind through Purple Rain, P was holding tight to a certain type of amalgamation (Hendrix, Sly, Richard, Brown, Rick) that reached it's glorious peak and purpose with Purple Rain. He used all of the that for his good and once he reached what he wanted, "THEN I'll cut my hair and start wearing suits, oh I want my hair long again and jean jackets and polkadots and on and on. Because I've reached the Promise Land so now I have the freedom to do as I please." And that's great BUT what GOT P to that point was the very SPECIFIC combination of images that he stayed true to from 80-84. And a part of that includes Rick. To play like that doesn't exists is not only downplaying the brilliance of what P achieved and how he pulled it all together but it tends to minimize the other great artists that P "borrowed" from. No one on this site was a bigger fan than I was of P during 80-85 but that doesn't BLIND me either. Lot of people hate when someone brings up something P has gotten from sombody or in P's case, many other somebodies ...And there is no conspiracy theory about MTV. None of us had to be in a board meeting to know what happened because it became highly public that they didn't want to even fuck with Michael Jackson let alone Rick. That's fact. How you think that takes anything away from Prince is beyond me. Like I've stated several times in the past, BOTH Rick and Prince are giants and legends. Both were/are superstars and both were/are great. But that doesn't change if P borrowed from Rick early in his career and then Rick turning around straight bitting from P on the Wonderful album later on in his career. Observations of fact, period. I can swoon all over Hendrix but it doesn't change the fact that when Jimi was smashing up the speakers and busting his guitars, he got all of THAT from Pete. Just given credit to where credit is due is where I'm coming from on this topic. Just because I dig an artist, that doesn't equate blindness.
[Edited 8/5/09 12:47pm]

desinord said:

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You know I just lost five minutes of my life I cannot get back reading your crap. I am qualified as much as anyone to express my opinion. Do I thing P was infulences by Rick sure I do but not as much as you think.
More an likely P was already putting the Dirty Mind concept together so not only was influenced by Rick he was moving past Rick which I happen to think makes him more talented, cleaver, and forward thinking than Rick was ever going to be and time has proved me right and you wrong . Now let me answer some more of your nosense.


“And then you go on the say pot smoking N***s SHOULD be crucified, you sound just like a motherf***g square with you head stuck up you a##. For another human being to say another human being deserves to be crucified and subject to blatent racism is insane and irresponsible.”

Did you not type this ignorance below.
“Pot-smoking niggers always get crucified when they do there own thing.”


Excuse me but your are the ass that got on this board and used the N word. Get over your ignorance black people are beyond using the n word. It is ignorant and tired and for another human being to use it yes I am going to say you need to crucified and so does Rick for using drugs and wasting his talent. It does not matter what other rockstars i.e. white folks are doing. When we show out we pay the price which is the reason you do not do it in the first place. You put your nose to grindstone and you work hard (kind of sounds like what P did).


“By 1982 RIck James already accomplished rock superstardom. 6 funk-rock albums which would later provide the format,structure and swag Prince would later expose to the world”

Yes because if Prince had not come along no one would have heard of funk (LOL) Dam dude did you miss out on James Brown or Sly Stone (LOL)

In addition, you really can’t compare the horn based funk of Rick’s music to the mspl sound P developed his own sound from his influences this is what makes him an innovator and not a follower. He simply had the vision and musical chops to do some things that I do not think Rick was capable of. We know from Lady T’s interview that he did not know how to program those keyboards.


The ruffles go back to Jimi Hendrix and Little Richard and anyone with half a brain knows that P stole a lot of ideas from the british new wave movement. I should know I like new wave music back then and as a teenagers recognized were he got the whole pirate look from.


“You guys worship an entertainer who sues you guys left and right and who doesnt give a flying f**k about what you type. Like the slogan says "independent and unofficail" I guarentee you if Prince came into this message board and saw my post he would either request for the topic to be closed or have this site permanently shut down. Hes obviously ashamed to admit he was inluenced by a "drug user". anybody who knows anything about the history of funk will tell you Rick James is the epitome of funk and rock”

I worship God not Prince so you can get that notion out of your head now. In addition, Prince has never sued anyone. People who put up bootleg and copyrighted materials have been sent cease and desist letter. The letters tell you take down the content no one has been sued.

“Hes obviously ashamed to admit he was inluenced by a "drug user". anybody who knows anything about the history of funk will tell you Rick James is the epitome of funk and rock. He played guitar,bass,drums,persussion, composed and arranged and produced his entire catolog but 1 song which is "Big Time". I dont make arguments based on my own opinion”

If Prince is ashamed of being influence by a “drug user” than why does he always site Jimi Hendrix and Sly Stone as influences? I guess you forgot Prince plays a dozen instrutments as well and produce and wrote all his stuff so what is the point of bringing that up?

I have refuted what you said Rick was an influence but just not that big of an influence P was leaving dude behind when he got on tour with him and neither artist invented wearing ruffles or being flamboyant. At the end of the day P is in the Hall of fame Rick is really just a blip on the RnB screen and only delusional Rick James fans see it any differently.

skywalker said:

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Nothing because this really should bring this topic to an end.

Princes longevity alone should destroy this argument, fraud? while Rick was in jail or bitching Prince kept recording, one guy became a dave Chappell punchline, the other became a Hall of Famer. I hate to put it like that ( RIP Rick) but its true, thats what happened, ruffles or no ruffles.

laurarichardson said:

Yes, that is indeed true but THIS isn't what the thread was about. dreamshaman brought up something about folks speaking from "emotion" but ironically, that's exactly what he himself ended up doing. This wasn't a Rick vs P thread. It's simply about Teena talking about how Rick tripped off of P. All of the other responses prior were in line with Teena's sentiment. Not untill desinord jumped in with his non factual and "I'm here to save the day for Rick" bullshit did it became a Rick Vs Prince thing. That and having the lunacy to drop the word "nigger" and not even being a brutha himself... But Spyz and I checked him on that. But as far as dreamshaman, who like I said, was stating things that I myself had ALREADY stated earlier, it did become "emotional" for him as well. Because when you have to start bringing up things that has nothing to do with the initial topic, like what P was doing when Rick was locked up....When you have to resort to bringing up ANY man's personal tribulations and personal downfall just to pump another man's achievements, if THAT isn't speaking from an "emotional" base, then I don't know what is. Because it's not like Rick didn't reach any achievements in his professional career. That goes without saying. But when people post from a perspective, ESPECIALLY when they obviously dislike another artist, then that's when "blindness" occurs. You're not speaking with a clear head or a neutral stance because you're to busy trying to "defend" somebody. They have to "knock" the other artist or downplay that artist and what they have accomplished. And deeper still, the very people who end up doing this, more times than not, don't even have the proper knowledge of the person that their attempting to put down. So nah, longevity has nada to do with what Teena was talking about. Its not about how many more awards P has received than Rick. Or that P was able to release a film and Rick didn't. I stated how ironic it was that as much shit Rick actually talked about P in the media, how he ended up late in the game visually taking so much from Prince. Just like Prince did early in the game with Rick. That's not me showing favoritism to either artist. Or showing "blindness" to one to glorify the other.
[Edited 8/5/09 14:50pm]

SPYZFAN1 said:

Yes, yep and ummmmhmmmm. I agree to all of this ^^^ right here.

unlike some people on this board i dont have to speculate on anything regarding this topic.i dig prince and rick james but when they hooked up on the fire it up tour, rick won that round hands down.warner bro told prince that he was not ready to tour and he did it anyway.ricks set list on this tour was better, the stone city band was better,i mean for god sake he had a horn section.the day i got the call to work on this tour was the proudest moment of my career cuz i got to see a pro and a great performer in action rick james.

jackson35 said:

Yeah well man, u know I am familiar with ya and your history with working with Rick on such a legendary tour. I've given u your props on the Fire It Up thread.

Ok. Lets discount ricks personal life (my bad) and get back to when he was actively recording, when this so called "crime" occured. From what i remember Rick was still dropping gems, and as a young person i never stopped listening to rick because Prince was blowing my mind (who does that? LOL), kinda like i shrugged at Tupac (who i loved) and took my ass to the store and bought my Biggie. Teena Maries recollection about Rick/Prince is that Rick (in his mind, not mine) thought there was a Rick vs. Prince.Now, if i recall if Rick felt it was that way then it is fair game for us to size them up because he took it there. If you think Prince wasnt competitive back then your wrong, Prince (once he hit his stride) live routinely chanted "cant nobody fuck wit us" U think Rick wasnt included in this boast?. The great boxing trainer Teddy atlas once said, to hell with the speed and power, who a guy is when everything is going his way, i wanna know who he is when the heat is on.Rick had some Mike Tyson in him, all was good when he was the undisputed king of Punk Funk but when Prince dropped 1999 it was a wrap, when someone hit him back he folded. We can nitpick about packaging, racist policy, biting, whatever you wanna do but once 1999 dropped this guy was not the same. Mind you, none of us know either one of these guys and we all have our own narrative as to what happened, i just think mine is patently more obvious than yours. will it stop me from bustin out of my L seven square or rockin fire and desire the next time my girl comes by? nope, like i stated earlier Rick is the shit, just not to the detriment of Prince.
[Edited 8/6/09 1:52am]

dreamshaman32 said:

Patently more obvious than mine? Player, are you high? Obviously u have read the Fire It Up thread and MY posts especially because you are repeating damn near everything I had ALREADY posted on that thread. Especially about the 1999 album. I took it MUCH further than you ever could though. I went 10 rounds with jackson35 because I was stating that it was when Prince released his 1999 album, that's when he turned the corner on Rick and left him behind. I went on to say that as cool as Rick was on tour, I didn't believe that he could fuck with P when he got to his 1999 tour. I actually attended Rick's Street Songs tour in Long Beach, Ca and I went to see P TWICE on the 1999 tour. Once in L.A and the other in Long Beach. I had already seen P live on the Controversy tour in Santa Monica so this is what I was basing my point on as far as live performers. Rick was absolutely killin' on his Street Songs tour but when P came with his 1999 album and tour, like I said, I feel this is where P totally left Rick. I find it hella hard to believe that u didn't read that Fire It Up tour Rick vs Prince thread that was on here less than 2 months ago. If for some freak reason that u didn't, you're the only one because everybody else on here certainly did. But if you haven't, u need to go find that bad boy and read it. You'll see that you've been practically posting the identical points that I had ALREADY stated. So attempting to argue with me regarding this is like you're argueing to a mirror. Except that in the mirror, when u see my face, it's going to be a lot better looking than your own.
[Edited 8/6/09 13:41pm]

emotion lol. not arguing, and no i swear i dont read so many threads that i have an encyclapedic ability to recall everything. I've relied on my own belief and understanding of the situation, and if we have the same narrative why go any further?. I could go into the shows i've seen and blah blah blah but the point is Rick thought it was a thing and Prince settled it in the only venues that matter-not Right On Magazine or a taudry book.And i like what i see in the mirror ("manpretty"LOL) and i'm sorry; i dont C strangers who get all bent out of shape on the prince.org forum. Truce?
[Edited 8/6/09 3:33am]

dreamshaman32 said:

What are u talking about man? Nobody was talking about "so many threads". I was talking about ONE thread, the one that you obviously read besides this one. And you certainly don't have to explain what this topic is about to me. You're the one who needed explaining to. Right On magazine and a taudry book? What's THAT got to do with this? Stay on track, dawg. And why do u feel u need to go into the shows that you've seen? Just because I mentioned it? You've bitten off enough of what I 've already posted as it is so hell nah, form your own thoughts. Don't have a clue on who you're talking about getting bent out of shape. Because it certainly isn't me. When I call somebody on something, which in this case it would be you, it's just that. I'm TOO clear cut and TOO specific in the statements and posts that I make so it's not hard for anyone to comprehend where I'm coming from. I know imitation is the highest form of flattery but damn....I see that I'm going to have to set up my royalty rate and fees up in here though. For instance, if I charged 7 cents everytime somebody thought "Damn, didn't bgz just say that?", then you would owe me roughly $100 all by yourself on just THIS thread alone.
[Edited 8/6/09 5:16am]

blackguitaristz said:

Haven't heard from you in awhile. Good to see you back.