On one hand it allows him to not be pigioned-holed and allows for fans of various musical stripes to enjoy the same performer. On the other hand his music will eventually rub some fans the wrong way because of their music predjudices.

I believe this is why we get topics like "most embarrassing prince song" and reviews that constantly call cd's "uneven" or "self-indulgent". The "self-indulgent" term is really meaningless. Its shorthand for "I don't like this style please play the way I want to hear". A Critic will praise certain songs as the highlight of the cd only to be followed by another critic highlighting completely different songs as the essential cuts.

As much as people praise Springsteen, Dylan, or James Brown, the fans and critics have a general idea of the boundaries they will create their music within. Prince on the other hand is perverse in that he may rap or he may use real instuments or he may go entirely electronic. He may hit u with a instrumental funk/jazz/ambient extravaganza or hit u with old-school.

Prince may be the most unique pop-rock star ever realized. Its the reason the "haters" can't let go, because secretly they are afraid that what is missing from the music has more to do with them then any creative let down from Prince.

I guess the reason I am very rarely critical of Prince is that I see each song as an individual snowflake that upon examination reveals a level of beauty and detail that is beyond most songwriters. Its as if each song is a little created world unto it self. Prince doesn't do throwaways. His sheer output overwhelms most folks ability to absorb it all.

I have never listened to a Prince cd and felt like the songs all felt or sounded the same. Many, many cds of other acts have songs that are hard to differiate from each other or worse sound like they could be on a 100 other artist albums.

So let's celebrate a genius on the eve of the unveiling of another chaper in a 31 year-old career.

That is a pretty snowflake analogy. I've mentioned before that I believe that some prople don't really know how to classify Prince as a musician...other than to say that Prince is in a class by himself...A class we admire for it's unique place in the music industry.

cheerz!

I couldn't agree with you more Tricky. This is a great time for us with new music about to come our way. I'm ready to celebrate cause it's been LONG overdue.

Versatility...not diversity.

Tame said:

Tame said:

Prince has covered many styles, and in each style he has great songs and a few clunkers.

Ultimately it all comes down to personal opinion, but there is a difference between hating a song because it's a certain style, or hating a song because it's just a crap song.

tricky99 said:

Great post Tricky99 @)-}----

NoVideo said:

True but there are many orgers that if you pay attention complain continually about songs that fit a certain type.

tricky99 said:

I really enjoy reading your posts tricky, they're always well constructed and thoughtful. I think you're being rather too kind though here, I'm sure even Prince has throwaway ideas.

I think sometimes because of his work ethic and the tools at his disposal Prince could be accused of not developing his many, many ideas enough which might make them throwaway. We've all heard the 'song a day' mantra, but I'm sure there has to be a better reason to record rather than just because the he can and always has.

tricky99 said:

Right, it's just personal taste. Some folks didn't like Planet Earth because there wasn't a 'Black Sweat' on there. That's why others did like it!

Prince tries to cover a lot of ground, his mid-80s stuff is praised for this versatility, but I get the impression it's somewhat of an albatrose and I don't think his recent albums always benefit from this peacock-like display of versatility.

Like sunlight is pleasantly warm when it's shining on you, but when it's concentrated through a magnifying glass it can burn!

I love Prince's diversity - I don't even mind the rap that he performs himself.

A few of my major gripes would be:

• Quantity for quantity's sake: for example, Satisfied and On The Couch are so close musically and only 1 album apart. They could've easily been crafted into one song. I would rather he had (throughout his career) avoided the "1-album-per-year" self-quota.

• Randomness of genres: instead of having a rap/electronic/dance/jazz track on every release of the past decade+, I would've loved a whole CD or two of one genre at a time.

NouveauDance said:

I think that is the reason we are getting 3 seperate albums. So the albums are more uniform in approach. i also think that prince felt that all the complaints about filler and throw-aways tosed at emancipation made him think twice about releasing that much music as a one-shot. No-one could really deal with 3 hours and 36 songs at one time. If u have noticed people are forever trying to edit emancipation down to one "good album". Except all these one albums contain different songs, thus proving that one man's throwaway is another's gem.

I have heard the term throw-away attributed to far to many songs. Its more the case of "I don't like this song" then it is "this song has no musical merit".

Se7en said:

If what we hear is true this 3 pack is basically prince spliting his output into 3 genres. I really like both Satisfied and On the couch. They are both examples of old-school soul ballads. If u like that sort of thing then they aren't redundant any more then Fury and Wall of Berlin are redundant if u like guitiar rock.

I love that Prince has been prolific and continued to share his output as it comes instead of trying to self-censor himself. There is no guarante u would be more satified with less. He gives u the option to configure your perfect output if u so desire. Personally there is not a limit to my desire for more Prince material. I want all the outtakes, all the demos, all the different versions, all his versions of songs given to others. Bring it all.

Enjoyable read. I wish more threads were as well constructed and thought out. To me, Prince's 80's work seemed more cohesive. Although he displayed many styles and influences, there was always that identifiable purple feel. Never did it feel 'patch' like. However, later albums did seem more fragmented and styles were more instantly recognisable and classafiable. Also, it often seemed like Prince was being eclectic for eclectics sake -emancipation disk 1. Kinda like he thought 'i've gotta show everybody that i can play all styles'. Diamonds and pearls? Coupled with the development of the itunes/ipod, the consumer/listener has became more of a singles buyer. A compiler. The editor. An album which lacks focus e.g. Planet Earth, is more likely to suffer getting spliced and diced at the hands of somebody making a Prince playlist than Purple Rain.

tricky99 said:

very well put bro.If they stop putting him in the box and just listen 2 what he does outside the box.prince liked all types of music growing up and his music only reflects that, because he is one of few artist capable of getting there musical taste out of there system with any instrument he chooses.most musicians are limited because they only write with the guitar,or piano,or bass,or drums.prince all the above, let the brother do his thing already damn.

tricky99 said:

I really like both Satisfied and On The Couch too -- but to me they run together. I guess in that case the perfect scenario would be to have them either further apart in the catalog, or - with a little arranging - as part of a "suite" on the same CD. Who knows.

Same goes for all the "James Brown"-type songs of late ... a whole CD in that vein would be better than 1 per album.

But, I am like you and want it all. I'm looking at this thread in an "alternate universe, what-if" kinda way.

tricky99 said:

nice post

I liked Prince's versatility--in fact listening to Prince broadened my appreciation for other styles of music.

But here's the thing... when you shift from one genre to the next you need to recognize that the aesthetics of one genre DO NOT necessarily translate to another. Now some genre-bending will produce really interesting hybrids, but others do not.

What makes a good rock song is not the same thing that makes a good club song, not only in terms of rhythm section but in terms of mix, production, arrangement, etc.

Prince does NOT do hip hop well at all. He never respected it as a genre (hence all "The Black Album" cracks on rappers), and when he finally incorporated it into his music it was as a gimmick. Tony M & the Game Boyz. Because he did not respect hip hop as a legitimate musical artform, he could never appreciate its aesthetic values. And so his raps bordered on corny especially attempts at swag.

Even when he tried to incorporate a hip hop legend, it got buried in something like "Undisputed." Maybe "Chocolate Box" will be better with Q-Tip, but the refrain "box to rock your socks" is like hip hop kindergarten nursery rhyming. He really should just stay away. He cannot do everything.

What he can do well is quirky genre bending hybrids... his sound is in part the father of the Andre3000s and Janelle Monae (someone he's praised recently)... DiscoJellyFish has a Janelle Monae sound to it, and if there's enough of that element in MPLSound, it will be a cool surprise for me.

To me there is a lot that Prince does very well. He just needs to "stay in his own lane." And that's not limiting him, considering "Prince's lane" is like a 10-lane highway

NuPwrSoul said:

Couldn't disagree with u more. When Prince does hip-hop he is bringing in musical elements other than sampling that most rappers would not. That was evident from dead-on-it till now. Prince is not Rakim and doesn't need to conform to some purist's idea of what hip-hop should be.

U certainly don't have to ride in the passengers seat when he is in that lane, but its not your place to decide what he can or can't do.

Sexy mf, my name is prince, gettoff, days of wild, come on, now, 18 and over, ripgodzippa, plus many more belies your contention that Prince doesn't appreciate hip-hop. He certainly doesn't have to do it and is critized for it. So evidently he likes it. For me the element of hip-hop added to the purple mix only made it more interesting. If u feel otherwise that's your perogitive.

And Prince was right in Dead-on-it about the over-top-bragging and the tone-deafness of most rappers. Its only now that they have auto-tone that they can sing lol and badly still. Prince is a much better rapper then 99.9 rappers are singers.

tricky99 said:

When I say "appreciate" I'm not talking about "liking" hip hop... I mean not dismissing it as a simple anyone can do this kind of thing which I think he did in some of his attempts to incorporate it into his sound. I am far from a purist and like I said, I like the more hybrid stuff... he's good at the sing-song style of flow aka sexy mf & gett off... if I remember correctly Levi had a lot to do with the composition of sexy mf and I think others with gett off (the uncredited sample of Hold On via LL's Boomin System helped a lot; as did Eric B & Rakim's I know you got soul on Arrogance).

As for over-the-top bragging... I have another thread on that when Prince does the same thing and funny that he's using autotone on his records now.

Thank God with Prince it's a 10-lane highway so we can all find a place on this journey

tricky99 said:

fuck that ..give me another 3 hours of brand spanking new music any day

NuPwrSoul said:

Anybody can rap (maybe not well) and the current state of hip-hop is evidence of that. And I know u are not arguing that any help Prince had in developing certain songs delegimizes him or the song in any way.

How many rappers do u know who create the music as well as rap? Very few and far between. Can u name anyone from Prince peer group who has embraced hip-hop as much as he has?

If prince stumbled with rap its not because he thought it was easy. He had to learn and practice just like anyone else to get better at it. Prince is a musician musician and anything new that comes down the turnpike is going to be incorporated into the purple mix because prince is seriously ambitious.

Great post. As someone who's listened to P's music pretty much since I was a little kid, I can honestly say that the diversity of his sound has made me appreciate genres I never would have otherwise listen to.

Great post. Prince is the most complex artist (Songwriter/Composer/Performer/Musician/Cultural Icon/Iconoclast/Producer) of the last 50 years. His genius won't be truly appreciated for a long time. I'm sometimes frustrated due to the enormously high standards he has set with his incomparable 80's creative ridiculousness, but I am grateful for this wild ride (1978+).

After all these years, I still uncover amazing material (Small Club) that should be put in a time capsule. I feel that there are many facets of P's enormous catalog that the public has no clue about. Some of this has been his own fault, which makes me adore him even more.

lezama said:

I agree that his diversity is a double-edged sword. It seems that over the past few years, he's tried to please everyone by making albums that are an amalgam of styles, encompassing everything he's touched on in his career. It sounds like with this new set, he's trying to do the same, by making LotusFlower to satisfy the pop/rock crowd, MPLSoUND for the funk/urban/dance crowd, and Bria's album for the soul ballad crowd. It's as if Prince wants to prove he's the jack of all trades with every record!

While it's great that he has so many styles that he can cover with such ease, my own musical prejudices make me tend to prefer albums that are more sonically unified, like 1999 and Lovesexy. That said, I'm excited for the new albums. There really is nobody else like him, and he'll always be my favorite artist.

I agree with much of what you say here... I will add that Prince's diversity also has hurt not only with his fans.. but with non-fans

How many people don't have a clue that Prince is a brilliant guitar player? Fans of rock guitar like certain things just like fans of R&B don't traditionally like the hear a moster guitar riff all up in the middle of a slow jam like I Hate U (Shhh would be the exception because that joint works). Fans of guitar music bypass Prince because they can't get past songs like Glam Slam, or other POP sugar infested songs that Prince fans love him for

His diversity has prevented him from expanding his fan base IMO.

Its ok though because I love his Pop - LRC & Cream, I love his funk - Housequake & Days of Wild, I love his R&B Kiss and Adore and yes I love when dude plays that guitar and rocks out like he did with Fury on SNL several years ago (that was a breathless performance)
[Edited 3/24/09 16:56pm]

tricky99 said:

I think you're missing my point... I'm not saying Prince hasn't "embraced" hip hop, I'm saying that every genre has its own aesthetic values... and if you're going to do it well you're going to have to respect/pay attention to those values.

Prince has never made a great hip hop record. Has he incorporated elements? Yes. His earliest attempts to do so were superficial and clumsy. And late. Of course I'm not deligitimizing him or his songs LOL! I'm saying that he had help in incorporating those elements.

To further illustrate my point... Prince and classical music. He attempted a symphony with Kamasutra. Play it for any classical musician, and they will respectfully and politely acknowledge him for trying. But it's not that great because that's not his forte.

Neither was jazz at first, although he's gotten a lot better at that... and it is no accident that some of his best work in that genre has come out of his working with musicians who are a lot more practiced in the genre than he is -- whether that be Eric Leeds, Sheila E., or Renato, etc.

Again that's not to take away anything from Prince... I'm just adding another "edge" to that double-edged sword of Prince's versatility... his forays into genres where he is not the most practiced sometimes leave the listener wanting.
But it is still exciting to hear his efforts... and one of the reasons why I'm a fan is when his music show that he's still interested in pushing the boundaries of his work and his fans' ears... and that I love about him.
[Edited 3/24/09 17:05pm]