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The Girl Effect - inspiration for a song? When I saw this vid, I couldn't help think that it might be great inspirational material for a Prince song - since his lyrics in later years seem to suggest concern with such issues [saving the earth, the soul, PE, humanity, etc.] - and since it's still about girls:)..
http://www.youtube.com/wa...IvmE4_KMNw | |
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Right on! | |
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Perhaps, but Prince is not a feminist. Women figure as objects of his amorous affection in most of his songs. | |
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I can see your point.
I'm not sure where Prince stands on feminism - never talked to him:) I agree that women have featured as objects in many of his songs, but far from all of them. Plus, I've heard he was quite a pioneer in giving women work opportunities and advancing their career in show business - which would go counter to the idea of treating them as just objects, but rather, empower them. As for this video - I'm not sure that giving girls/women a chance, giving them the basics to survive and make it in this world can be seen as 'feminism'. gyro34 said: Perhaps, but Prince is not a feminist. Women figure as objects of his amorous affection in most of his songs. | |
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empower them to be under his thumb | |
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Mmmm.. true, but weren't they free to leave him if they wanted?..
Actually I don't know, I've never been in those shoes:).. Rosalita said: empower them to be under his thumb | |
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Flo6 said: I can see your point.
I'm not sure where Prince stands on feminism - never talked to him:) I agree that women have featured as objects in many of his songs, but far from all of them. Plus, I've heard he was quite a pioneer in giving women work opportunities and advancing their career in show business - which would go counter to the idea of treating them as just objects, but rather, empower them. As for this video - I'm not sure that giving girls/women a chance, giving them the basics to survive and make it in this world can be seen as 'feminism'. gyro34 said: Perhaps, but Prince is not a feminist. Women figure as objects of his amorous affection in most of his songs. I have also read about him giving women work opportunites. I sense a hint of compassion from him towards women. I am familiar with the feminist movement literature. Some men can be kind towards women. However, when it comes to the women that become their wives it is different. Men still engage in sexism. Women still have not achieved equality, though our situation is still markedly better than the 60s. This is why I see feminism in this video. Wouldn't it be very risky for Prince to write a song advocating giving women more opportunities? | |
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Rosalita said: empower them to be under his thumb
 | |
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I get your point & agree 
I think it says something about how much still needs to be achieved with regards to equality that we still have to rely on such dramatically constructed messages as in this video to drive the point home. gyro34 said: Flo6 said: I can see your point.
I'm not sure where Prince stands on feminism - never talked to him:) I agree that women have featured as objects in many of his songs, but far from all of them. Plus, I've heard he was quite a pioneer in giving women work opportunities and advancing their career in show business - which would go counter to the idea of treating them as just objects, but rather, empower them. As for this video - I'm not sure that giving girls/women a chance, giving them the basics to survive and make it in this world can be seen as 'feminism'. I have also read about him giving women work opportunites. I sense a hint of compassion from him towards women. I am familiar with the feminist movement literature. Some men can be kind towards women. However, when it comes to the women that become their wives it is different. Men still engage in sexism. Women still have not achieved equality, though our situation is still markedly better than the 60s. This is why I see feminism in this video. Wouldn't it be very risky for Prince to write a song advocating giving women more opportunities? | |
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gyro34 said: Rosalita said: empower them to be under his thumb
...and employ them to be under him.  | |
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gyro34 said: Flo6 said: I can see your point.
I'm not sure where Prince stands on feminism - never talked to him:) I agree that women have featured as objects in many of his songs, but far from all of them. Plus, I've heard he was quite a pioneer in giving women work opportunities and advancing their career in show business - which would go counter to the idea of treating them as just objects, but rather, empower them. As for this video - I'm not sure that giving girls/women a chance, giving them the basics to survive and make it in this world can be seen as 'feminism'. I have also read about him giving women work opportunites. I sense a hint of compassion from him towards women. I am familiar with the feminist movement literature. Some men can be kind towards women. However, when it comes to the women that become their wives it is different. Men still engage in sexism. Women still have not achieved equality, though our situation is still markedly better than the 60s. This is why I see feminism in this video. Wouldn't it be very risky for Prince to write a song advocating giving women more opportunities? i think it would go unnoticed. people are too used to prince objectifying women, in fact they are too used to women being objectified period! women rule the world or at least can rule but they too scared to do it. requires to much energy. far easier to sit back and watch men fuck things up then blame them for it. okay ranting...carry on!  | |
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Well like I said, it takes two [so they were willing]. They could always leave.
jtfolden said: gyro34 said:
...and employ them to be under him. | |
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i think it would go unnoticed. people are too used to prince objectifying women
Initially agree - but I think Prince knows how to draw attention to something if he wants to, he has developed that into an art form:) or at least can rule but they too scared to do it. But they do [rule the world]. They carry men, give birth to them, nurse them, feed them, bring them up, take care of their practical/emotional/physical needs when adult, entertain them, nurse them [again in their old age], and bury them [the number of old couples in which the man falls ill/declines before the woman, and who goes/dies before her is staggering - the longevity discrepancy has been noticed worldwide and is well known].
DesireeNevermind said: gyro34 said: I have also read about him giving women work opportunites. I sense a hint of compassion from him towards women. I am familiar with the feminist movement literature. Some men can be kind towards women. However, when it comes to the women that become their wives it is different. Men still engage in sexism. Women still have not achieved equality, though our situation is still markedly better than the 60s. This is why I see feminism in this video. Wouldn't it be very risky for Prince to write a song advocating giving women more opportunities? i think it would go unnoticed. people are too used to prince objectifying women, in fact they are too used to women being objectified period! women rule the world or at least can rule but they too scared to do it. requires to much energy. far easier to sit back and watch men fuck things up then blame them for it. okay ranting...carry on! | |
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Flo6 said: i think it would go unnoticed. people are too used to prince objectifying women
Initially agree - but I think Prince knows how to draw attention to something if he wants to, he has developed that into an art form:) or at least can rule but they too scared to do it. But they do [rule the world]. They carry men, give birth to them, nurse them, feed them, bring them up, take care of their practical/emotional/physical needs when adult, entertain them, nurse them [again in their old age], and bury them [the number of old couples in which the man falls ill/declines before the woman, and who goes/dies before her is staggering - the longevity discrepancy has been noticed worldwide and is well known].
I think there is a difference between caring for men and enabling them versus ruling the world. when i think of running things on a grand scale, i think of our financial systems, educational systems, military, advertisement, food production, foregin relations...all that stuff is run by men. women may run their individual households but at the end of the day its still some guy with status determining what food you bought, what wrinkle cream mommy using, what kinda car makes daddy feel cool and how much he pays for gas and whether anybody has a job in the morning. women have a stake but it aint that big cuz they don't lay down the hammer. Imagine if all the women of the world stopped competing with each other over nothing and banned together to determine their destiny and that of their daughters. I mean their must be fear of that else why men in Afghanistan beating and killing girls for going to school  
DesireeNevermind said: i think it would go unnoticed. people are too used to prince objectifying women, in fact they are too used to women being objectified period! women rule the world or at least can rule but they too scared to do it. requires to much energy. far easier to sit back and watch men fuck things up then blame them for it. okay ranting...carry on! | |
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I understand what you mean - men rule the world in the literal, physical, concrete, and even economic sense. What I meant is that as caregivers, it is women who rule the world, because without that care and nurturance, men wouldn't be able to do all the things you listed, they would be nowhere. If women didn't give that care, it would be like cutting the lifeblood. In that sense, they are the ones who rule the world imo, because they rule over Nature.
[Of course I'm painting a very black and white picture here and speaking in very broad terms:)] I mean their must be fear of that else why men in Afghanistan beating and killing girls for going to school
Agree, if that's what you meant - I believe most repression and violence against women by men comes from being scared of them, of what they could achieve if they had access to the same freedoms, education, etc. than men. DesireeNevermind said: Flo6 said: i think it would go unnoticed. people are too used to prince objectifying women
Initially agree - but I think Prince knows how to draw attention to something if he wants to, he has developed that into an art form:) or at least can rule but they too scared to do it. But they do [rule the world]. They carry men, give birth to them, nurse them, feed them, bring them up, take care of their practical/emotional/physical needs when adult, entertain them, nurse them [again in their old age], and bury them [the number of old couples in which the man falls ill/declines before the woman, and who goes/dies before her is staggering - the longevity discrepancy has been noticed worldwide and is well known].
I think there is a difference between caring for men and enabling them versus ruling the world. when i think of running things on a grand scale, i think of our financial systems, educational systems, military, advertisement, food production, foregin relations...all that stuff is run by men. women may run their individual households but at the end of the day its still some guy with status determining what food you bought, what wrinkle cream mommy using, what kinda car makes daddy feel cool and how much he pays for gas and whether anybody has a job in the morning. women have a stake but it aint that big cuz they don't lay down the hammer. Imagine if all the women of the world stopped competing with each other over nothing and banned together to determine their destiny and that of their daughters. I mean their must be fear of that else why men in Afghanistan beating and killing girls for going to school
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See if women cared more about fighting back and defending themselves against the male ego instead of worrying about what SHES wearing and if HE likes me...all that bullshit maybe we could rule the world. but again, we'd rather let them fuck it up and not take the blame. me too painting in broad terms  
Flo6 said: I understand what you mean - men rule the world in the literal, physical, concrete, and even economic sense. What I meant is that as caregivers, it is women who rule the world, because without that care and nurturance, men wouldn't be able to do all the things you listed, they would be nowhere. If women didn't give that care, it would be like cutting the lifeblood. In that sense, they are the ones who rule the world imo, because they rule over Nature.
[Of course I'm painting a very black and white picture here and speaking in very broad terms:)] I mean their must be fear of that else why men in Afghanistan beating and killing girls for going to school
Agree, if that's what you meant - I believe most repression and violence against women by men comes from being scared of them, of what they could achieve if they had access to the same freedoms, education, etc. than men. DesireeNevermind said: | |
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You seem to fall in line a little with my brother, who always said he thought women/the female 'species' were stupid because it took them thousands of years to realize they were being dominated and to start doing something about it and demanding their rights [only this century].
So here goes... I think you have a point. Only, I think that caring about one's appearance/clothes and male attention is part of the propaganda of manipulation/domination that little girls are being brought up with from day one. It's not all actions and violent repressions, there is a discourse too to make sure we swallow the pill... DesireeNevermind said: See if women cared more about fighting back and defending themselves against the male ego instead of worrying about what SHES wearing and if HE likes me...all that bullshit maybe we could rule the world. but again, we'd rather let them fuck it up and not take the blame. me too painting in broad terms
Flo6 said: I understand what you mean - men rule the world in the literal, physical, concrete, and even economic sense. What I meant is that as caregivers, it is women who rule the world, because without that care and nurturance, men wouldn't be able to do all the things you listed, they would be nowhere. If women didn't give that care, it would be like cutting the lifeblood. In that sense, they are the ones who rule the world imo, because they rule over Nature.
[Of course I'm painting a very black and white picture here and speaking in very broad terms:)] I mean their must be fear of that else why men in Afghanistan beating and killing girls for going to school
Agree, if that's what you meant - I believe most repression and violence against women by men comes from being scared of them, of what they could achieve if they had access to the same freedoms, education, etc. than men. | |
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The opportunity to rule the world is not freely available to women. Everybody collaborates in a little girl's brainwashing : parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, teachers, classmates, friends, the media, and the clothing retail industry. As she grows up, the list of brainwashing agents gets longer. It took a few "odd women"(women who didn't fit in and of an inquisitive nature) to start developing the feminist movement. It all began one woman at a time as far back as when The US Constitution had just been written. | |
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gyro34 said: The opportunity to rule the world is not freely available to women. Everybody collaborates in a little girl's brainwashing : parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, teachers, classmates, friends, the media, and the clothing retail industry. As she grows up, the list of brainwashing agents gets longer. It took a few "odd women"(women who didn't fit in and of an inquisitive nature) to start developing the feminist movement. It all began one woman at a time as far back as when The US Constitution had just been written. | |
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gyro34 said: The opportunity to rule the world is not freely available to women. Everybody collaborates in a little girl's brainwashing : parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, teachers, classmates, friends, the media, and the clothing retail industry. As she grows up, the list of brainwashing agents gets longer. It took a few "odd women"(women who didn't fit in and of an inquisitive nature) to start developing the feminist movement. It all began one woman at a time as far back as when The US Constitution had just been written.
so when are we enlighted women gonna step up to the plate and get organized and undo the brainwashing. I'm willing and able but these everyday bitches won't stop looking in the mirror long enuf to listen to some knowledge. I don't have a problem with a woman caring about her appearance...its natural, but when you start caring more about competing with other women then its a problem.  | |
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DesireeNevermind said: gyro34 said: The opportunity to rule the world is not freely available to women. Everybody collaborates in a little girl's brainwashing : parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, teachers, classmates, friends, the media, and the clothing retail industry. As she grows up, the list of brainwashing agents gets longer. It took a few "odd women"(women who didn't fit in and of an inquisitive nature) to start developing the feminist movement. It all began one woman at a time as far back as when The US Constitution had just been written.
so when are we enlighted women gonna step up to the plate and get organized and undo the brainwashing. I'm willing and able but these everyday bitches won't stop looking in the mirror long enuf to listen to some knowledge. I don't have a problem with a woman caring about her appearance...its natural, but when you start caring more about competing with other women then its a problem. I've always been a non-comformist. So, I've been doing my part rebelling for quite some time. The beauty obssessive-compulsive women are the Stepford Wives outside the movie screen. | |
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DesireeNevermind said: gyro34 said: I have also read about him giving women work opportunites. I sense a hint of compassion from him towards women. I am familiar with the feminist movement literature. Some men can be kind towards women. However, when it comes to the women that become their wives it is different. Men still engage in sexism. Women still have not achieved equality, though our situation is still markedly better than the 60s. This is why I see feminism in this video. Wouldn't it be very risky for Prince to write a song advocating giving women more opportunities? i think it would go unnoticed. people are too used to prince objectifying women, in fact they are too used to women being objectified period! women rule the world or at least can rule but they too scared to do it. requires to much energy. far easier to sit back and watch men fuck things up then blame them for it. okay ranting...carry on! Prince would lose money. Frankly, I think he lacks the motivation to write a song on behalf of women's rights. Women's fear is due to the resistance from the whole culture. They try to do something daring and they get sexually harrassed ( or worse). In some workplaces men still treat women as invaders of their space (women construction workers). However, one does not need to get too daring to encounter a womanizer or a 'charmer' that is under the impression that every woman welcomes his flirtatious behavior. He can be found anywhere anytime. | |
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The thing is, I'm not entirely sure that most women are indeed over-concerned about their appearance. I think that's another, one more propagandized misconception about women from society: that worrying about our make up or truly caring about the properties of the latest body cream is all we do/what we really enjoy doing. Just look at the kind of entertainment that's being thrown at us [in films, or best of all: women's magazines - in those you do get the impression that it's all we care about - but these are societal/commercial MESSAGES that are being pushed down our throat: they we SHOULD care about our looks, waistline, etc. It serves immediate economic/commercial purposes and the broader ideological male-dominated world view.
In reality, I think there are plenty of women out there with busy lives, jobs, families, hobbies and interests, and who have no time for nail polish and perms. I don't think that the image of women you get from these mags/the entertainment industry truly reflects what women really like/want/care about. It distorts these things for its own purposes imo. DesireeNevermind said: gyro34 said: The opportunity to rule the world is not freely available to women. Everybody collaborates in a little girl's brainwashing : parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, teachers, classmates, friends, the media, and the clothing retail industry. As she grows up, the list of brainwashing agents gets longer. It took a few "odd women"(women who didn't fit in and of an inquisitive nature) to start developing the feminist movement. It all began one woman at a time as far back as when The US Constitution had just been written.
so when are we enlighted women gonna step up to the plate and get organized and undo the brainwashing. I'm willing and able but these everyday bitches won't stop looking in the mirror long enuf to listen to some knowledge. I don't have a problem with a woman caring about her appearance...its natural, but when you start caring more about competing with other women then its a problem. | |
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HOnestly, I think women obsess over their appearance in cycles...like the teen to mid 20 years and the after 40 years. I mean come on, the cosmetic industry alone is a multi-billion dollar biz and that's all due to us. I have yet to meet a woman of breeding age who does not care about her appearance. Even if it doesn't manifest itself in obvious ways like trendy clothes or painted face...the proof is still there. Walk into any nail salon, they sprout up like weeds btw, and see whose in there. Look at what women read while waiting in the grocery store line...9 out of 10 its a woman's day, fashion mag or health mag. Why is the lingerie and makeup counter at department stores always busy while the jewelry and perfume gals wait for customers? I agree the marketing industry negatively impacts womens self image but at the same time we do feed into it. If we don't buy it they won't sell it. And at the end of the day...I don't think men care as much about how we look as we do or even as we think they do. I have heard plenty of guys say right off the bat their pet peeve about women is that we don't eat and wear too much makeup.
you know we are giving Prince plenty of fuel and ideas for a hot girl effect song. 
Flo6 said: The thing is, I'm not entirely sure that most women are indeed over-concerned about their appearance. I think that's another, one more propagandized misconception about women from society: that worrying about our make up or truly caring about the properties of the latest body cream is all we do/what we really enjoy doing. Just look at the kind of entertainment that's being thrown at us [in films, or best of all: women's magazines - in those you do get the impression that it's all we care about - but these are societal/commercial MESSAGES that are being pushed down our throat: they we SHOULD care about our looks, waistline, etc. It serves immediate economic/commercial purposes and the broader ideological male-dominated world view.
In reality, I think there are plenty of women out there with busy lives, jobs, families, hobbies and interests, and who have no time for nail polish and perms. I don't think that the image of women you get from these mags/the entertainment industry truly reflects what women really like/want/care about. It distorts these things for its own purposes imo. DesireeNevermind said: so when are we enlighted women gonna step up to the plate and get organized and undo the brainwashing. I'm willing and able but these everyday bitches won't stop looking in the mirror long enuf to listen to some knowledge. I don't have a problem with a woman caring about her appearance...its natural, but when you start caring more about competing with other women then its a problem. | |
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I agree with all of this, except that I think that it all starts with advertising/marketing. I'm no economist, but I think that's the laws of the market: you create demand for a product/service.
you know we are giving Prince plenty of fuel and ideas for a hot girl effect song.
Let's hope, that would be cool!
DesireeNevermind said:[quote]HOnestly, I think women obsess over their appearance in cycles...like the teen to mid 20 years and the after 40 years. I mean come on, the cosmetic industry alone is a multi-billion dollar biz and that's all due to us. I have yet to meet a woman of breeding age who does not care about her appearance. Even if it doesn't manifest itself in obvious ways like trendy clothes or painted face...the proof is still there. Walk into any nail salon, they sprout up like weeds btw, and see whose in there. Look at what women read while waiting in the grocery store line...9 out of 10 its a woman's day, fashion mag or health mag. Why is the lingerie and makeup counter at department stores always busy while the jewelry and perfume gals wait for customers? I agree the marketing industry negatively impacts womens self image but at the same time we do feed into it. If we don't buy it they won't sell it. And at the end of the day...I don't think men care as much about how we look as we do or even as we think they do. I have heard plenty of guys say right off the bat their pet peeve about women is that we don't eat and wear too much makeup.
you know we are giving Prince plenty of fuel and ideas for a hot girl effect song.
Flo6 said:[quote]The thing is, I'm not entirely sure that most women are indeed over-concerned about their appearance. I think that's another, one more propagandized misconception about women from society: that worrying about our make up or truly caring about the properties of the latest body cream is all we do/what we really enjoy doing. Just look at the kind of entertainment that's being thrown at us [in films, or best of all: women's magazines - in those you do get the impression that it's all we care about - but these are societal/commercial MESSAGES that are being pushed down our throat: they we SHOULD care about our looks, waistline, etc. It serves immediate economic/commercial purposes and the broader ideological male-dominated world view. In reality, I think there are plenty of women out there with busy lives, jobs, families, hobbies and interests, and who have no time for nail polish and perms. I don't think that the image of women you get from these mags/the entertainment industry truly reflects what women really like/want/care about. It distorts these things for its own purposes imo. | |
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I bet his girl effect song will be super inspiring....go head on Princey | |
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I think that's a great idea - a 'Girl Effect' song by Prince [which kinds of goes back to my initial post] - perhaps one that would set the record straight on where he stands on the 'Woman question', given that the combined sum of all his songs and life practices give an unclear mix of admiration, devotion, manipulation and exploitation of women.
Rosalita said: I bet his girl effect song will be super inspiring....go head on Princey | |
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Flo6 said: I think that's a great idea - a 'Girl Effect' song by Prince [which kinds of goes back to my initial post] - perhaps one that would set the record straight on where he stands on the 'Woman question', given that the combined sum of all his songs and life practices give an unclear mix of admiration, devotion, manipulation and exploitation of women.
its quite dysfunctional really. but then he is a man
Rosalita said: I bet his girl effect song will be super inspiring....go head on Princey | |
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and being Prince, let's say his views on women are 'complex'  ..
DesireeNevermind said: Flo6 said: I think that's a great idea - a 'Girl Effect' song by Prince [which kinds of goes back to my initial post] - perhaps one that would set the record straight on where he stands on the 'Woman question', given that the combined sum of all his songs and life practices give an unclear mix of admiration, devotion, manipulation and exploitation of women.
its quite dysfunctional really. but then he is a man
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