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PrintableButterscotchPimp said: Again, yes the Time stuff and Let's Work are classics but they're not "funk" in the definition of the genre. Again, like what some others have pointed out i think there's some confusion amongst some Prince fans as to what funk actually is. Controversy isn't "funk". Neither is "Let's Work". And certainly nothing the Time ever did. I'm getting people are generally confusing "funky" with "funk". What is YOUR definition? | |
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Tame said: I think that a lot of bands have "Funky" in them...and the first band that came to my mind was "Cameo." One of the funkiest songs ever, has got to be..."Talkin' out the side of your neck."
She's Strange...Give the Gold medal Funk award to "Cameo" if ya ask me. I wouldn't give the gold medal for "She's Strange', but they certainly get a lot of nods for other tracks. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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Okay, BP...I think you're gonna need to spell it out here. Just sitting back and sayin', "That ain't funk. That ain't funk. That ain't funk" is getting us nowhere.
Let's hear what you call funk. And by that I mean...list 'em. We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves. | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: laurarichardson said: ----- "I'm not pulling this opinion out of my ass " Yes, you are but let me say this how can an artist who put his own mark on the funk genre be considered a joke in funk circles. All of this stuff he wrote and recorded with the Time is funky and Controversy and Let's Work are classics. If anyone is dissing P it is because he was able to cross musical genres and sell records to both black and white audiences something P funk was never able to do. Just a little jelousy. Again, yes the Time stuff and Let's Work are classics but they're not "funk" in the definition of the genre. Again, like what some others have pointed out i think there's some confusion amongst some Prince fans as to what funk actually is. Controversy isn't "funk". Neither is "Let's Work". And certainly nothing the Time ever did. I'm getting people are generally confusing "funky" with "funk". ----- WTF are you talking about. The funk of the Minn sound was not "James Brown" or "P Funk" because it was the 80's and the Minn guys were putting their own stamp on funk with a different twist. Because they were not following the same path of James or P-Funk does not mean it was not funk. Hands down I have seen many polls were P is listed as a top "rhythm gutiarist" how in the hell could he get that distinction if he was not "funky" Once again all this crap is coming from a bunch of old guys who never got on the crossover bus and it kills them that P pulled it off. Somebody has to come along and go down a new road and in the 80's P was that guy. | |
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Graycap23 said: ButterscotchPimp said: Again, yes the Time stuff and Let's Work are classics but they're not "funk" in the definition of the genre. Again, like what some others have pointed out i think there's some confusion amongst some Prince fans as to what funk actually is. Controversy isn't "funk". Neither is "Let's Work". And certainly nothing the Time ever did. I'm getting people are generally confusing "funky" with "funk". What is YOUR definition? ----- Yes, what is the definition and please don't say horns. The whole point of the Minn sound was to do away with horns. | |
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Genesia said: Okay, BP...I think you're gonna need to spell it out here. Just sitting back and sayin', "That ain't funk. That ain't funk. That ain't funk" is getting us nowhere.
Let's hear what you call funk. And by that I mean...list 'em. I couldn't agree more. What is your "gold standard" of funk? I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that | |
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laurarichardson said: ButterscotchPimp said: Again, yes the Time stuff and Let's Work are classics but they're not "funk" in the definition of the genre. Again, like what some others have pointed out i think there's some confusion amongst some Prince fans as to what funk actually is. Controversy isn't "funk". Neither is "Let's Work". And certainly nothing the Time ever did. I'm getting people are generally confusing "funky" with "funk". ----- WTF are you talking about. The funk of the Minn sound was not "James Brown" or "P Funk" because it was the 80's and the Minn guys were putting their own stamp on funk with a different twist. Because they were not following the same path of James or P-Funk does not mean it was not funk. Hands down I have seen many polls were P is listed as a top "rhythm gutiarist" how in the hell could he get that distinction if he was not "funky" Once again all this crap is coming from a bunch of old guys who never got on the crossover bus and it kills them that P pulled it off. Somebody has to come along and go down a new road and in the 80's P was that guy. Again, (and try to not be so defensive about this) I don't think ya'll get what funk truly is. Funk didn't "die in the 80's" and the Minneapolis guys "put their stamp on it". The "Minneapolis Sound" has very little to do with "funk" actually, and is its own genre entirely. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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ButterscotchPimp said: laurarichardson said: ----- WTF are you talking about. The funk of the Minn sound was not "James Brown" or "P Funk" because it was the 80's and the Minn guys were putting their own stamp on funk with a different twist. Because they were not following the same path of James or P-Funk does not mean it was not funk. Hands down I have seen many polls were P is listed as a top "rhythm gutiarist" how in the hell could he get that distinction if he was not "funky" Once again all this crap is coming from a bunch of old guys who never got on the crossover bus and it kills them that P pulled it off. Somebody has to come along and go down a new road and in the 80's P was that guy. Again, (and try to not be so defensive about this) I don't think ya'll get what funk truly is. Funk didn't "die in the 80's" and the Minneapolis guys "put their stamp on it". The "Minneapolis Sound" has very little to do with "funk" actually, and is its own genre entirely. Me saying Prince isn't "funk" isn't me saying "Prince sucks as a musician/artist". Good lord some of ya'll are sensitive. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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1980s and stripped-down funk
In the 1980s, many of the core elements that formed the foundation of the P-Funk formula began to be usurped by electronic machines and synthesizers. Horn sections of saxophones and trumpets were replaced by synth keyboards, and the horns that remained were given simplified lines, and few horn solos. The classic keyboards of funk, like the Hammond B3 organ and the Fender Rhodes piano began to be replaced by the new digital synthesizers such as the Yamaha DX7. Electronic drum machines began to replace the "funky drummers" of the past, and the slap and pop style of bass playing were often replaced by synth keyboard bass lines. As well, the lyrics of funk songs began to change from suggestive double entendres to more graphic and sexually explicit content. Rick James was the first funk musician of the 1980s to assume the funk mantle dominated by P-Funk in the 1970s. His 1981 album Street Songs with the singles "Give It To Me Baby" and "Super Freak" resulted in James becoming a bit of a rock star, and paved the way for the future direction of explicitness in funk. Prince used a stripped-down instrumentation similar to Rick James, and went on to have as much of an impact on the sound of funk as any one artist since James Brown. Prince combined eroticism, technology, an increasing musical complexity, and an outrageous image and stage show to ultimately create a musical world as ambitious and imaginative as P-Funk or The Beatles. The Time, originally conceived as an opening act for Prince and based on his "Minneapolis sound", hybrid mixture of funk, rock, pop, R&B & new wave. They went on to define their own style of stripped-down funk based on tight musicianship and sexual themes. Bands that began during the 1970s P-Funk era incorporated some of the uninhibited sexuality of Prince and state-of-the-art technological developments to continue to craft funk hits. Cameo, Zapp, The Gap Band, The Bar-Kays, and The Dazz Band all found their biggest hits in the 80s, but by the latter half of the 80s, funk had lost its commercial impact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funk Peace ... & Stay Funky ...
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purplecam said: Genesia said: Okay, BP...I think you're gonna need to spell it out here. Just sitting back and sayin', "That ain't funk. That ain't funk. That ain't funk" is getting us nowhere.
Let's hear what you call funk. And by that I mean...list 'em. I couldn't agree more. What is your "gold standard" of funk? I'll get into this in detail more later, as i've got to handle some work stuff. As far as "gold standard" is concened it's Parliament/Funkadelic. Period. Maggot Brain, Red Hot Mama, Standing On The Verge, Let's Take It To The Stage, Loose Booty, What Is Soul, etc etc etc. James Brown, The JB's, Fred Wesley and Betty Davis laid the foundation of what funk truly is. Groups that carried the flag, Bootsy's Rubber Band, Cameo, Zapp, Brides of Funkenstein, 420 Funk Mob, Weapon Of Choice, Enemy Squad, blah blah blah. I gotta run. Discuss and i'll be back later. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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& don't 4get: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...olis_sound = The music is also known as a form of funk-rock. [Edited 8/19/08 10:19am] Peace ... & Stay Funky ...
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ButterscotchPimp said: purplecam said: I couldn't agree more. What is your "gold standard" of funk? I'll get into this in detail more later, as i've got to handle some work stuff. As far as "gold standard" is concened it's Parliament/Funkadelic. Period. Maggot Brain, Red Hot Mama, Standing On The Verge, Let's Take It To The Stage, Loose Booty, What Is Soul, etc etc etc. James Brown, The JB's, Fred Wesley and Betty Davis laid the foundation of what funk truly is. Groups that carried the flag, Bootsy's Rubber Band, Cameo, Zapp, Brides of Funkenstein, 420 Funk Mob, Weapon Of Choice, Enemy Squad, blah blah blah. I gotta run. Discuss and i'll be back later. Bernie Worrell and the Woo Warriors! http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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Sure, the revolution was funky sometimes, sometimes they where pop and sometimes they where rock. Freedom is to trust that you're doing what you must according to your lust | |
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You're right Butter! Prince is not all about funk, he is sooo much more! He is beyond defining and categorizing music.
Prince breaks boundaries which is the cool thing about him as an artist. Of course he can play funk, funk is just one genre of many... But screw genres, what matters is does the music flow or not? That said, I thought Prince had a pretty funky opening on the last O2 night broadcastet on Sky News. | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: You know, i really was trying to avoid doing this but it's gotten to the point where i can't ignore it anymore. What's going on in the Wendy & Lisa thread has pushed me to my breaking point.
Not telling anyone else how to think. Like all things Prince related, everyone has an opinion. Like the one i keep hearing lately about how the Revolution wasn't "funky". Or was so much less "funky" than later incarnations of the band. Or when i hear another artist being put down for not being as "funky" as Prince. Well here's the deal i'd like to discuss now. you're making a relevant point but prince is very funky have a listen to daisy chain, or Mutiny, or chelsea rogers etc etc he isn't taken so seriously because he doesn't play that stuff exclusively. for many years (and even now, I think) he wasn't taken seriously as a guitarist and for the same reason - he doesn't exclusively play the guitar. when I listen to prince on my ipod I tend to break his music up into categories because I don't always want to know how prolific etc he is. he's a sinner in the house of funk because he, on occaision gets very melody orientated like Joni. The idea of him being "the keeper of funk" is silly but he is a top funker 
Prince isn't that "funky". Not in the purest definition of the genre. Sure he likes to throw the word around, but in the PUREST sense of the genre he's not even taken that seriously. Short of George using Prince to get yet another label home for a minute, no one in the P-Funk camp takes Prince seriously from a "funk" standpoint. To be blunt, he's a joke in the real "funk" camp. He's LAUGHED AT. He's respected as a musician, and for having a lengthy career, but Prince is so fucking far from the "standard bearer" for funk that's it's not even funny. I'm not pulling this opinion out of my ass (although i know i'm going to get accused of doing just that). I'm in Detroit and know and have talked to quite a few heavy hitters over the years who are main-stays in the funk community and Prince isn't taken seriously with these guys AT ALL. I mean short of borrowing some stage tricks from James Brown, as well as some horn inflections (also borrowed from JB'S) in the TRUEST sense of the genre, how is Prince really that "funky"? So explain to me how to some of you, Prince became the "keeper of the FUNK"? small circles, big wheels!
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Sorry,  I'm drunksmall circles, big wheels!
I've got a pretty firm grip on the obvious! |
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Rightly said: Sorry,
I'm drunkthat was funky  | |
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I would never put Prince's brand of funk in the same category as Pfunk, Rick James, Bootsy, Cameo, The Gap Band or JB. Prince seldom plays pure funk. It's more of a hybrid-Princey style funk. Exceptions would be most of Exodus, parts of Crystal Ball and portions of The Black Album just off the top of my head.
Prince is eclectic and has funky elements in many of his songs but to call Controversy or Let's Work pure, raw, uncut funk? Nah. What's interesting about Prince is how he pulls together different musical elements in a way that no one else can, but is he one of the masters of funk? No. As for W&L, I'd say every other member of the Revolution surpasses them when it comes to funk. They added some interesting colors to the mix during their time with Prince but his music was more watered down funkwise with them than at any other time in his career with any other band for that matter. Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise. | |
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Graycap23 said: ButterscotchPimp said: I'm completely serious. Not joking even a little. I knew you'd be the first one in here. Like i said, i'm not going to name drop. Some folks in here know where I am, and what i do for a living, and who i used to be in bands with. Suffice it to say, Prince isn't taken seriously at all in the funk community. Not even a little. So i'm curious as to how some of you arrived at the conclusion that Prince is somehow the "gold standard" for FUNK? Those are u words not mine. Prince is many things, funk just being one of them. That comment is laughable. Number one, your own ears should be the determining factor, not someone elses comments or thoughts. Prince's FUNK can stand up 2 anyones. Just listen 4 yourself. There is no debate here. If u don't like it, so be it, but 2 come here and make such silly comments is well.....silly. Your point seems 2 be 2 riles folks up 4 absolutely no reason. Is there a point 2 this? i haven't even read this whole thread yet when i posted this, but it's just another revolution head that can't face the facts that prince has been funky and even funkier without them so i will  at this whole entire threadman, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: Graycap23 said: Those are u words not mine. Prince is many things, funk just being one of them. That comment is laughable. Number one, your own ears should be the determining factor, not someone elses comments or thoughts. Prince's FUNK can stand up 2 anyones. Just listen 4 yourself. There is no debate here. If u don't like it, so be it, but 2 come here and make such silly comments is well.....silly. Your point seems 2 be 2 riles folks up 4 absolutely no reason. Is there a point 2 this? See, here we go. I'm not belittling anyone's opinion. I'm not calling what you're saying "silly". I'm not trying to rile anyone up. I'm asking you and anyone else that puts other artists down for not being as "funky" as Prince to explain this position. My ears are just fine. I was born in DETROIT. Believe me, my ears know FUNK when they hear it. And where Prince has occasionally done some stuff that could be defined as "funky" MAYBE, in the purest sense of what the GENRE IS, he's NOT the "bearer of the funk". Some of you act like he is, and i seriously want to know WHY. This is one of those threads, where if you want to get into a track by track comparison i'm all for it. But i'm going to be using REAL "bearers of the funk" as a measuring stick, so beware.  when i asked u 2 go head 2 head about the revolution years vs anything past u refused..now u want 2? but ur gonna use what say lakeside against prince instead of the revolution? or the ohio players? damn ur starting 2 clown urselfman, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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L4OATheOriginal said: damn ur starting 2 clown urself
Starting 2? He is WAY past that..... | |
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what would be the definition of funk??
and how is he not funk... just asking? Cooking class...YOUNT...Gimme a lil bit a dat peppa....gimme a lil bit a dat salt...put it in the skillet and cook it...On that stove I bought....WE DON'T NEED NO MICROWAVE!!! | |
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TheKid3121 said: what would be the definition of funk??
and how is he not funk... just asking? I'm still waiting 4 the answer 2 that question. | |
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Prince is many things, musically, and one of those parts is funk. He might not wear pimp clothes or a diaper on stage, smoke spliffs or whatever might make you consider him to be 'truly' funky, but funk is definately a colour on his pallette.
It's rather silly to suggest he isn't funky. If that is not what you are trying to say, then I do not know why you created this thread. I am sure the funk community you speak of just plays funk and nothing else. To me, people laughing at Prince's funk-ability are the ones that are silly. And now I am not saying he is 'the keeper of funk'. He just got a funky side. Next to his jazzy side. And his poppy side. And his rocky side. The main attraction to me is he mixes it and can switch from one style to another at the blink of an eye. Even if I agree with George Clinton, who once said he'd like Prince to get on the grittier side of funk. |
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Graycap23 said: TheKid3121 said: what would be the definition of funk??
and how is he not funk... just asking? I'm still waiting 4 the answer 2 that question. if u can describe it it ain´t funky as in the time honoured tradition of zen  small circles, big wheels!
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I am drunky small circles, big wheels!
I've got a pretty firm grip on the obvious! |
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TheKid3121 said: what would be the definition of funk??
www.allmusic.com says Named after a slang word for "stink," funk was indeed the rawest, most primal form of R&B, surpassing even Southern soul in terms of earthiness. It was also the least structured, often stretching out into extended jams, and the most Africanized, built on dynamic, highly syncopated polyrhythms. As such, it originally appealed only to hardcore R&B audiences. The groove was the most important musical element of funk — all the instruments of the ensemble played off of one another to create it, and worked it over and over. Deep electric bass lines often served as main riffs, with an interlocking web of short, scratchy guitar chords and blaring horns over the top. Unlike nearly every form of R&B that had come before it, funk didn't confine itself to the 45-rpm single format and the classic verse/chorus song structure. Funk bands were just as likely to repeat a catchy chant or hook out of the blue, and to give different song sections equal weight, so as not to disrupt the groove by building to a chorus-type climax. In essence, funk allowed for more freedom and improvisation, and in that respect it was similar to what was happening around the same time in blues-rock, psychedelia, and hard rock (in fact, Jimi Hendrix was a major inspiration for funk guitar soloists). The roots of funk lay in James Brown's post-1965 soul hits, particularly "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" (1965) and "Cold Sweat" (1967). Sly & the Family Stone, who started out as a soul band influenced by rock and psychedelia, became a full-fledged (albeit pop-savvy) funk outfit with 1969's Stand!. However, the record that officially ushered in the funk era was James Brown's epochal "Get Up (I Feel Like Being A) Sex Machine." The arrangement was spare, the groove hard-hitting, and Brown's lyrics were either stream-of-consciousness slogans or wordless noises. Brown followed it with more records over the course of 1970 that revolutionized R&B, and paved the way for the third artist of funk's holy trinity, George Clinton. Clinton's Parliament and Funkadelic outfits made funk the ultimate party music, not just with their bizarre conceptual humor, but their sheer excess — huge ensembles of musicians and dancers, all jamming on the same groove as long as they possibly could. Thanks to Sly, Brown, and Clinton, many new and veteran R&B acts adopted funk as a central style during the '70s. Funk gradually became smoother as disco came to prominence in the mid- to late '70s, and lost much of its distinguishing earthiness. However, it had a major impact on jazz (both fusion and soul-jazz), and became the musical foundation of hip-hop. Thanks to the latter, funk enjoyed a renaissance during the '90s, especially among white audiences who rushed to explore its original classics. |
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Rightly said: Graycap23 said: I'm still waiting 4 the answer 2 that question. if u can describe it it ain´t funky as in the time honoured tradition of zen Funk is a feeling.....I think some people MISS that point. | |
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HamsterHuey said: Prince is many things, musically, and one of those parts is funk. He might not wear pimp clothes or a diaper on stage, smoke spliffs or whatever might make you consider him to be 'truly' funky, but funk is definately a colour on his pallette.
It's rather silly to suggest he isn't funky. If that is not what you are trying to say, then I do not know why you created this thread. I am sure the funk community you speak of just plays funk and nothing else. To me, people laughing at Prince's funk-ability are the ones that are silly. And now I am not saying he is 'the keeper of funk'. He just got a funky side. Next to his jazzy side. And his poppy side. And his rocky side. The main attraction to me is he mixes it and can switch from one style to another at the blink of an eye. Even if I agree with George Clinton, who once said he'd like Prince to get on the grittier side of funk. The bolded parts show that you do get what the thread is about.  Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise. | |
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babynoz said: HamsterHuey said: Prince is many things, musically, and one of those parts is funk. He might not wear pimp clothes or a diaper on stage, smoke spliffs or whatever might make you consider him to be 'truly' funky, but funk is definately a colour on his pallette.
It's rather silly to suggest he isn't funky. If that is not what you are trying to say, then I do not know why you created this thread. I am sure the funk community you speak of just plays funk and nothing else. To me, people laughing at Prince's funk-ability are the ones that are silly. And now I am not saying he is 'the keeper of funk'. He just got a funky side. Next to his jazzy side. And his poppy side. And his rocky side. The main attraction to me is he mixes it and can switch from one style to another at the blink of an eye. Even if I agree with George Clinton, who once said he'd like Prince to get on the grittier side of funk. The bolded parts show that you do get what the thread is about. heh, if you just read the bold parts, sure. But one of the bold parts is an IF, not an absolute. I just don't get the thread. That's all. Prince does what he does. We can all go fuck ourselves. I never met a person that berated Prince for not being funky enough, so I am kinda puzzled about the people Pimp tries to call out. That's all. |
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