wonder505 said:

[Edited 8/19/08 9:12am]

Graycap23 said:

So you're saying that Scarlet Pussy (which really isn't funk) and the Exodus album (which is close) places Prince on the #4 list in your mind for funk music?

Funk is what Funk does and it's all about the FEELING of what Funk is or does. I wouldn't say P is a INNOVATOR of Funk or a pioneer of Funk but he's runnin' with those same cats ...
[Edited 8/19/08 9:14am]

I've been reading along, and except for my song contribution, I wasn't sure where to jump in. I will say that what has bugged me is that sometimes people on HERE don't understand the differences. For example, someone will start a thread like, "Name your favorite Prince ballad" and people will start listing songs that are clearly NOT ballads.

So what I'm saying is that it's not really fair to rip into Prince for the misinformation of the people who try to categorize him. I don't think he's a funk master, I don't think he's a rock master... I think he's a master of PRINCE music.
In the words of Jamie Foxx tryin' to be Ray: "He do what he do, Baby!"

Just my

ButterscotchPimp said:

This from the man who said that W&L are as funky as Prince.
Ohh larwd.....

Graycap23 said:

Ah ah ah.
What i actually said was Prince isn't "dramatically" funkier.
In the truest sense of the genre, i maintain that neither is.

That's different.

ButterscotchPimp said:

U are funny.....I'll give u that.

Graycap23 said:

Well i'm glad that you think i am, when i'm not trying to be.

But to be specific, how is "Scarlet Pussy" DRAMATICALLY "funkier" than "Fruit On The Bottom"?

You have 2 POP artists using "funk elements". Now granted, Prince does it in more songs, but are the 2 tracks i just mentioned dramatically different "funk" wise?

Prince isn't just a Funk musician- he has touched most genres in his music
However.....

Days of Wild
Head
A Love Bizarre
Hide The Bone
The Exodus Album

2 name but a few.....

ButterscotchPimp said:

W&L could be funky while sitting on the toilet.

GeminiCalling said:

Well, beyond the 2 we've already discussed i wouldn't call any of the tracks you listed "funk".

Interesting that you think "Head" and "A Love Bizarre" are funk, though. Helps me understand the mindset. Thanks.

Graycap23 said:

Wow.
Again Gray, you seem more interested in putting them down than actually discussing the issue. So i guess you can't explain how "Scarlet Pussy" is funkier than "Fruit On The Bottom"? I'm assuming you've heard the track i've referenced?

I remember this topic coming up a while ago here, and examples like "Data Bank" (Prince's version) and "La, La, La, He, He, Hee" were called "not funk," which I really didn't understand, because I wouldn't know which genre to put them in. But that's just my lack of knowledge.

I would also think, or assume, that a lot of jazz musicians would say something similar about all the times Prince is celebrated for putting elements of jazz in his music.

ButterscotchPimp said:

W&L is NOT funk. Period.

Graycap23 said:

I'm completely serious. Not joking even a little.
I knew you'd be the first one in here.

Like i said, i'm not going to name drop. Some folks in here know where I am, and what i do for a living, and who i used to be in bands with. Suffice it to say, Prince isn't taken seriously at all in the funk community. Not even a little.

So i'm curious as to how some of you arrived at the conclusion that Prince is somehow the "gold standard" for FUNK?

Graycap23 said:

Okay, stomp your feet and make a proclamation.
Now can you explain how the 2 tracks i've mentioned are that different from a "funk" standpoint, or not?

Have you heard the song i'm referencing? Second time i'm asking that.

PurpleLove7 said:

Well, in funk circles i'd argue he's not even in the same lane as the big boys. But if you think so, give me some examples!

Graycap23 said:

See, here we go. I'm not belittling anyone's opinion. I'm not calling what you're saying "silly". I'm not trying to rile anyone up. I'm asking you and anyone else that puts other artists down for not being as "funky" as Prince to explain this position.

My ears are just fine. I was born in DETROIT. Believe me, my ears know FUNK when they hear it. And where Prince has occasionally done some stuff that could be defined as "funky" MAYBE, in the purest sense of what the GENRE IS, he's NOT the "bearer of the funk". Some of you act like he is, and i seriously want to know WHY.

This is one of those threads, where if you want to get into a track by track comparison i'm all for it. But i'm going to be using REAL "bearers of the funk" as a measuring stick, so beware.

You know, i really was trying to avoid doing this but it's gotten to the point where i can't ignore it anymore. What's going on in the Wendy & Lisa thread has pushed me to my breaking point.

Not telling anyone else how to think. Like all things Prince related, everyone has an opinion. Like the one i keep hearing lately about how the Revolution wasn't "funky". Or was so much less "funky" than later incarnations of the band. Or when i hear another artist being put down for not being as "funky" as Prince.

Well here's the deal i'd like to discuss now.

-----

Prince isn't that "funky". Not in the purest definition of the genre. Sure he likes to throw the word around, but in the PUREST sense of the genre he's not even taken that seriously.

Short of George using Prince to get yet another label home for a minute, no one in the P-Funk camp takes Prince seriously from a "funk" standpoint. To be blunt, he's a joke in the real "funk" camp. He's LAUGHED AT. He's respected as a musician, and for having a lengthy career, but Prince is so fucking far from the "standard bearer" for funk that's it's not even funny. I'm not pulling this opinion out of my ass (although i know i'm going to get accused of doing just that). I'm in Detroit and know and have talked to quite a few heavy hitters over the years who are main-stays in the funk community and Prince isn't taken seriously with these guys AT ALL.

I mean short of borrowing some stage tricks from James Brown, as well as some horn inflections (also borrowed from JB'S) in the TRUEST sense of the genre, how is Prince really that "funky"?

So explain to me how to some of you, Prince became the "keeper of the FUNK"?

ButterscotchPimp said:

Yo Pimp. I'm usually with U on most stuff, but not this.

It doesn't matter AT ALL if Prince is taken seriously or not by some cats, because others know he's the real deal. There R plenty of musicians from many genres of music that don't take Prince seriously. It's usually because of his image, or former status as a pop star.

FACT IS... When it comes 2 guitar, bass, keys, and drums, Prince is TRULY funky. I mean HEY. We both play guitar, right? How can U say his rhythm playing isn't funky?? His timing is perfect and unique. He is as tight on the Bass.

I get the confusion. "La La La" would be by Prince's definition "funk" and it's certainly one of his most obvious attempts at the genre. So sure, for Prince and i'm sure the majority of his fans, it's "funky".

ButterscotchPimp said:

-----
"I'm not pulling this opinion out of my ass "

Yes, you are but let me say this how can an artist who put his own mark on the funk genre be considered a joke in funk circles.

All of this stuff he wrote and recorded with the Time is funky and Controversy and Let's Work are classics.

If anyone is dissing P it is because he was able to cross musical genres and sell records to both black and white audiences something P funk was never able to do. Just a little jelousy.