robinesque said:

First time i've ever been called a fam!

try and have an intelligent conversation about the man's music with some constructive criticism, and they will try to shut you down immediately

"Flashlight" was indeed the first to use a synth for a primary bassline...

PoorGoo813 said:

Ah. KAK = kool aid kid.

My nickname for the diehards on here that think Prince can do no wrong, can play every instrument ever invented and think that Prince should have gotten Academy Award nominations for Best Actor and Best Director for Graffiti Bridge.

ButterscotchPimp said:

if that's ur definition of diehards then i think ur confusing the issues. diehard CAN b objective and not think everything he's done is great. it's the FANATICS that belive he can do no wrong.

Let's put it like this....Songs like "Head," "The Stick" (the Time), "Controversy," "777-9311," "DMSR," and "Lady Cab Driver," were sparse (something very new in funk) and leaned heavily on the synthezier and drum machines rather than the traditional horns and band vibe that was the hallmark of the funk sound...this was revolutionary and quite a shock...to the point where other "funk" acts had to follow the new sound (Cameo, Bar-Kays, George Clinton)...

MattyJam said:

Hell yeah, i would also like to know why you think that you're such an funk expert. I mean i listened to funk music all my life, i really grew up with it.
And now you come along and act like you would be the only person in the whole wide word, who is in the know what funk music is! The only person that can decide if a song is "funk" or just "funky" as you say... I bet you dont even play an instrument!

Unfortunately , up to now you didnt even come up with a clear musical (and I MEAN musical!) defintion of what funk really is.. You said you gave an defintion, but i cant find it anywhere in this thread!
But maybe i just overlooked it, so would be nice if you could post "your personal defintion" of funk again!

Again I see your point that P is not a true funk artist in the traditional sense. I also agree that most of P's Music is definitely NOT funk.
BUT "Erotic City" IS a funk song. Man, you could even aks "your god" George Clinton personally and he will tell you the same - Erotic City IS a funk song.

Apart from that, i think its ridiculous to say the only "true" funk legends out there are Sly, George and Bootsy. A lot of Slys stuff isnt even funk!. I'm startin to wondering if you ever listened to all of his records? Anyways,that was the kind of music they did some 40 years ago. Funk has changed since then.Read murphs post for reference. Please get over it! Nowadays the call other acts than Elvis Presley Rock N Roll as well you know

There are many people on this forum, who are true music lovers. People which know a lot about music. Befor you try to prove all of us wrong, it would be nice if you could tell us all a little bit more about your musical background?
Would be nice to know, why you're thinking of yourself as such an expert?

Sorry for my bad english

Good points murph!

I don't understand how BP can point to the "new wave" influences on Clinton/Parliament's music without attaching same purist views, definition and standards he holds Prince to. You didn't hear those influences in James Brown's funk. Does that point to the MYTH of George Clinton's funk.

And Prince's stripped down, "new" funk is an influential variation of his funk forefathers. Prince ushered in an area in which producers dominate and big bands (Parliament, Cameo, Lakeside, Ohio Players, EWF) have gone by the wayside.

Things evolved, Prince is complex...and he is funk(y).

There's nothing worse than taking some time to write a lengthy, considered post that doesn't get a single response (other than that from my girlfriend-to-be), is there?



Stevie Wonder's "Superstition", five or so years earlier, notwithstanding…

qw

Where exactly did i claim anywhere on this thread that i was a "funk expert"? ?

Murph: agree, the initial post was unnecessarily inflamatory and maybe lazy... but you're right... it worked, and I'll give him a nod for that, cause I can only take so much of the drool threads (they also have there plave though)

quaterwit:

ButterscotchPimp said:

BP... I must admit I am very close to falling into those first two categories. Oscars for GB, though? Even I ain't that much of a Fam!

As for P (not) being a "true" funk artist? I wouldn't know one way or the other as I am not a big fan of the genre. Prince may or may not be "funk," but he IS "funky" and that's good enough for me.

SAying Prince si not funk with the argument that his sound is sonically far from james and p funk IS LIKE saying Nirvana is not a rock band because it does not have the sound elements of Led Zeppelin or Elvis Presley. So by analogy its BS.

violetblues said:

oh shit, busted!

(I was using someone else's terminology... please don't hate me
)

Uh huh.

But you SAID.....



So wouldn't that imply George Clinton started using synths and drum machines AFTER Prince? That would be funk acts "following" Prince's new sound, yes?

So who's baiting and switching here? Again, i maintain Prince started dabbling in "funk" a little later in his career. Certainly not right from the jump.

You want to take umbrage with how i initially started this thread, and i can live with that. But if i'd done it as you suggested, i don't think the conversation would have been as spirited, so in that vein i'm glad i did.

And we can just disagree about Prince's contributions to the "funk".
And yes again, the man is "funky".

ButterscotchPimp said:

I said the same thing that I I've always said...lol....That Prince's brand of funk was sparse, and yes that was something new to the funk...

And for the record (once again...) I never said Prince was the first to use a synthesizer...I said he was the first to use it as his primary instrument with the Linn drum machine...Anyone that knows anything about music knows that Bernie was using synths when Prince was still living in a basement...U r not saying anything new with that....It's the stripped-down element that is at the center of my point

And who is the blue Monday hell said anything about Prince going into the funk from the jump???...LOL....Not me...Again, u r very good at detouring from the bases of your overall post...Which was Prince was not ever funky...And that is something that u can't simply disagree with because that initial view is just flawed and steeped in your own opinion...You would have made a tighter point by simply saying that Prince was not the funk-master that some folks claim he was, because that has a bit of truth and a debate worth having..

U r relying on your own purists definition of the funk, which, again, is trapped in some dizzying time warp when actually "Erotic City" is as much "funk" in the same way as "Flashlight"...

So once again, what have we learned?

MURPH NEVER SAID PRINCE WAS A FUNK MASTER

MURPH BELIEVES THAT PRINCE'S "FUNK" WAS JUST AS LEGIT AS THE FUNK GODS THAT U SPEAK OF

PRINCE IS NOT A "FUNK ARTIST", MUCH IN THE SAME WAY HE IS NOT A ROCK OR POP ARTIST...BUT HIS BASE IS ALL THE ABOVE

YOU WOULD HAVE FIT IN PRETTY WELL WITH THE SAME CATS WHO CALLED OUT DIZZY AND BIRD FOR NOT MAKING TRUE JAZZ MUSIC...

THIS THREAD WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOT EASIER TO DIGEST IF U DIDN'T GO FOR THE SENSATIONALISTIC APPROACH...
[Edited 8/25/08 8:23am]

L4OATheOriginal said:

Well, you'd have to admit that on the Org it's a little hard to tell the difference!

murph said:

Oh please. I don't even know whom you are talking to, but they have you nailed. You've waffled more than Hillary Clinton at a VFW hall. You stuck your foot in it, you said he couldn't do it, and now you're saying he can. Your crediblity is currently resting on a rock among other algae and fungi in a pond somewhere in Northern Florida.

savvy said:

Great standup...Just give me 15 percent as your manager and u can go places...

But seriously....What the hell r u talking about???...

murph said:

I think Savvy is talking 2 BP.

Graycap23 said:

I figured that...(I think...)

murph said:

I think Savvy is talking 2 BP.

Soulstar77A said:

Where exactly did i claim anywhere on this thread that i was a "funk expert"? I've never even come close to saying anything in the neighborhood of that. Of course a lot of Sly and James' stuff isn't "funk" but that doesn't take away from the fact that they laid a lot of the groundwork for the genre.

As far as my "musical background"? Been a music lover my whole life. I've been working in the music business in different capacities for about 20 years now. Former singer in a pretty well known funk band for about 7 years or so some years back. Okay?

In this case, I'll use Funkadelic as an example. Funkadelic, was a classic example of a band that played funk as well as rock. From Super Stupid, Alice In My Fantasies and the title tracks of Free Your Mind and Maggot Brain to of course Undisco Kidd, How Do You View You, One Nation Under A Groove and (Not Just) Knee Deep. Prince patterned himself after this i.e Sexy Dancer, I Wanna Be Your Lover to Bambi, Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad all on one album. He even established from his first joint that he was out to mix it up musically i.e. "Soft and Wet" (funk/disco) to "I'm Your's" (rock). But with all of P's genre mixing, he's come with some bonafide funk based tracks:
Just to name a few:
Sexy Dancer (which major fuck act Zapp felt inclined to borrow from with "Itchin For Your Twitch"
Let's Work
Controversy
Lady Cab Driver
DMSR
1999
Erotic City
She's Always In My Hair
Hello
Of course there are many more examples.
Anotherlover

whoever said EWF's "September" was funk music needs Jesus...

blackguitaristz said:

Oh come on. He's dead for God's sake. Show a little love for Roger.