Love when Web Sheriff misses stuff. HA!

AGAIN, i wasn't holding up "Fruit At The Bottom" as a "funk jam". I wanted to know why it was DRAMATICALLY LESS FUNKY than "Scarlet Pussy".

The problem appears to be that some people cannot stay within the defined parameters of a debate - Butterscotch clearly set the boundaries by asking to discuss Prince in the "pure funk" genre. It is then entirely irrelevant to start talking about Prince's undeniable ability to blend genres - that is not the point of this discussion.

The problem also lies with what seems to be a general misunderstanding - the difference between being "funky" and being a "funk artist". Matty, I give you props for giving us a list of Prince's funkiest jams and, sure, they are funky, but not necessarily funk. Have you ever tasted something and said, "Hmmm, that is creamy", yet what you were tasting was not actually cream? Of course you have and it is the same here. Just because something is "funky" (that is, possessing elements of, or being similar to), it does not follow that it is actual funk.

Its going to be difficult for many to grasp, but when you dilute Prince's music down to a specific genre, he is not the class-leader in any of them. No-one should be foolish enough to consider that Prince is the best "rock", the best "funk", the best "R&B" or whatever category. Only when you take the man's music in all its wild combinations can you then start appreciating his greatness (and I'm still not going to say that he's necessarily the best there anyway, but certainly ranks amongst the greatest).

One thing I will give props to in this thread (and Butterscotch did the same) is that someone said that Prince has managed to generate interest in funk, without being a funk artist - that deserves a mention both on Prince's part and the poster who realised this.
[Edited 8/21/08 5:34am]

Does anyone in here like Scarlett Pussy? I mean really. Just the mental image... Scarlet fever plus pussy.... scary. I don't even think it's funky.

And it is easy to dance to some of the "Funkadelic stuff"?

The problem appears to be that some people cannot stay within the defined parameters of a debate - Butterscotch clearly set the boundaries by asking to discuss Prince in the "pure funk" genre. It is then entirely irrelevant to start talking about Prince's undeniable ability to blend genres - that is not the point of this discussion.

The problem also lies with what seems to be a general misunderstanding - the difference between being "funky" and being a "funk artist". Matty, I give you props for giving us a list of Prince's funkiest jams and, sure, they are funky, but not necessarily funk. Have you ever tasted something and said, "Hmmm, that is creamy", yet what you were tasting was not actually cream? Of course you have and it is the same here. Just because something is "funky" (that is, possessing elements of, or being similar to), it does not follow that it is actual funk.

Its going to be difficult for many to grasp, but when you dilute Prince's music down to a specific genre, he is not the class-leader in any of them. No-one should be foolish enough to consider that Prince is the best "rock", the best "funk", the best "R&B" or whatever category. Only when you take the man's music in all its wild combinations can you then start appreciating his greatness (and I'm still not going to say that he's necessarily the best there anyway, but certainly ranks amongst the greatest).

One thing I will give props to in this thread (and Butterscotch did the same) is that someone said that Prince has managed to generate interest in funk, without being a funk artist - that deserves a mention both on Prince's part and the poster who realised this.
[Edited 8/21/08 5:34am]

I get what you're saying and it makes sense, but I think that part of the debate was over the existence of "pure funk." I don't subscribe to that "Funk is a feeling" nonsense - funk is definitely a genre of music, the question is whether it is or ever was "pure." You can be old-school or relate to funk from a particular era or style (e.g. 70s, P-Funk etc.), but I think that's missing what funk is as much as those that say "it's a feeling, it's whatever you want it to be." Funk has always been dynamic - James' funk is not the same as GC's or Sly's or Ohio Players etc.
I still think there's an argument for P representing a stage in this progression. Sure, most of his stuff is less hard-core and he sometimes seems to hide the funk, but I think the strongest claim for P belonging to the class of JB, GC etc is in fact that he made funk that sounds and is different from his predecessors.
I don't think P fits into the class of people like, say, Wilson Pickett, Albert Collins or Hendrix, who put a little funk into the mix sometimes. My feeling is that with P, as I said in an earlier point, funk is the base and starting-point. (In the same way I don't think P's relationship to funk is the same as it is with rock or blues, say, which are less fundamental.

Instead of listing, then, the trax which fit into existing funk sounds, I would quote others:

Baby I'm a Star
New Position
1999
Lady Cab Driver
Head
Eye Know (altho that sounds very P-Funk to me...)
even My Name is Prince
or Sexy MF

I know Butterscotch and Funkenstein will write off all of these, but I bet back in the day they would have written off GC for not making pure funk like JB does...

Which was ENTIRELY my point.

I mean W&L are "funkless". Okay, but is "Scarlet Pussy" dramatically funkier than "Fruit On The Bottom"? Not in my mind. At all. "Hide The Bone"? YEAH.

From a dj standpoint? YEAH.
I can get a dance floor moving MUCH easier to a Funkadelic song than i can a Prince song.

Mind you that's with a NEUTRAL crowd.

Believe it or not, i used to dj a Prince night once a month here in Detroit.

(i know. and from a Prince hater! ARRRRRGH!!!!!)

OK.....I've been reading, & I know I'm late in the game.....But I need Pimp 2 answer this one question:

Define the following songs in the Genre U think they belong:

STOMP - The Brothers Johnson

Candy - Cameo

September - Earth Wind & Fire

Forget Me Nots - Patrice Rushin

Candyman - Mary Jane Girls

And please explain why U think they belong in your chosen genre.
NO ONE BUT BUTTERSCOTCHPIMP answers this please ya'll. I' just trying 2 see if he understands music.

Um, those are all R&B songs. None of those are "funk" to me. And i love each of those songs dearly and play them often. I mean if you really wanted to get nit-picky you could almost classify Stomp, September and Forget Me Nots as disco, but i wouldn't.

ah ha!! (I'm really enjoying this thread btw)

I think I have the perfect analogy to help people out... I tried a linnaean classification and failed... I shall now attempt to use cooking

In a pasta sauce you have tomatoes as a base ingredient
whereas in salad tomatoes are an extra ingredient

bear with me

so, let's say that James Brown is a napolitan sauce

and say Beastie Boys are a salad of hip hop lettuce and throw a tomato into the occasional album

So the Q is

is Prince pasta puttanesca/ or greek salad

OK....but as U so clearly stated in your definition of funk: There must be BOTTOM. Now I am sure that being the musicians that WE are there will be no disagreements as to the truth of that. Truth of the matter....Forget me nots is a FUNK song that was accepted into the disco genre, because it is danceable. Now, with the exception of Candy Man, they all fall under the FUNK catagory by your definition. Now if U really listen to James Brown, not much Bottom. More horns and rhythym guitar than anything.
So I find your classification in deep contrast 2 what U say FUNK is.
Explain....please.
[Edited 8/21/08 8:19am]

Um, those are all R&B songs. None of those are "funk" to me. And i love each of those songs dearly and play them often. I mean if you really wanted to get nit-picky you could almost classify Stomp, September and Forget Me Nots as disco, but i wouldn't.

you RULE.

But i added "bottom" to the other definition that i said we'd use from page 6 of the thread. "Forget Me Nots" isn't "funk". It's too polished!!!! Sure it's got a walk-y, poppy bassline, but in my mind that doesn't make it funk. It's not "raw" enough to be funk. I didn't say that "bottom" was the ONLY quality of a funk song, it's one of them. Forget Me Nots is certainly "funky" but not "funk".
[Edited 8/21/08 8:31am]
[Edited 8/21/08 8:32am]

OK....but as U so clearly stated in your definition of funk: There must be BOTTOM. Now I am sure that being the musicians that WE are there will be no disagreements as to the truth of that. Truth of the matter....Forget me nots is a FUNK song that was accepted into the disco genre, because it is danceable. Now, with the exception of Candy Man, they all fall under the FUNK catagory by your definition. Now if U really listen to James Brown, not much Bottom. More horns and rhythym guitar than anything.
So I find your classification in deep contrast 2 what U say FUNK is.
Explain....please.
[Edited 8/21/08 8:19am]

And to clarify further, "bottom" doesn't necessarily HAVE to be there to be "funk". There are always exceptions to the rule.