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PrintableI can dig where u are coming from on this post..right on ! 
savvy said: Again...u seem to be going by your own limited view of what funk is...I can tell you that I too have access to some pretty "funky" heavy hitters/legends...And when ever the conversation about Prince comes up they admit that Prince's brand of "funk" was indeed legit, while at the same time they make it a point to say that it presented problems to the old guard...The problem that some of your friends may have with Prince's "funk" is that it basically signaled end to the "funk" that kept them in business...It ended a lot of careers...
Shit, I would be shocked too if I heard "Head" in 1980 or "The Stick" if I was a musician whose idea of funk was 12 piece band with horns and a sound that was full and a groove that seemed more jam oriented...Prince, however changed that idea, by only keeping the bass and guitar and basically making the synthesizer and Linn drum the bedrock of the groove.."...Again, I think u might want to come down to earth on this one...It's not rocket science... Pushing it for who?...lol...When you see all the great funk bands throw away their horns and start using synthesizers and drum machines in the early '80s following Prince's lead there's no other way to call it...The irony is Prince was not a "funk" artist (Though it certainly was a foundation for him just as rock and pop)...His sound was all over the place...But when he did pull out the "funk" the funk community took notice...Cameo's Larry Blackmon saw the hand writing on the wall (it's no secret why he paired down the group and started using synthesizers and drum machines by 81-82)...George saw it as well, which can be heard on his early solo albums (which were really P-Funk albums).."Atomic Dogg" is George's nod to the new funk that Prince was kicking out... You see what u have to understand is Prince is a tricky act to categorize...Stop letting your antiquated view of funk cloud your judgement...You sound like the traditional jazz heads of the 20's and '30's calling out Dizzy and Charlie Parker because they felt be-bop wasn't "pure jazz"...Such a statement was born out of jealousy and fear...And I would bet that some of your "funk" friends come from that same school... [Edited 8/22/08 8:31am] Murph. I owe you a beer. Although I think schooling this moron is a waste of computer taps.[/quote] | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: PurpleCharm said: It must be a cold day in hell because I actually agree with OP.
 okay? thanks??? I think you need some gifs to go with this thread.  | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: Rev said: I agree BP. You proclaim this wasn't a "baiting" type thread, but anytime someone tries to add some levity to the converastion you skip it and fight with graycap or a Funk Newbie that's less apt to have a consistant point. You can't define FUNK and you shouldn't define the org. reply to my post then talk about how great this BS is! Okay. Who exactly have i skipped that was bringing "levity" to the convo? name and page? and i will gladly reply. I posted on the 6th page. disregard the Heatwave typo. "Ain't no half steppin'" | |
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ah sh*t, I'm funkier than W&L, and if you met me, you would know that places W&L in the negative funk department. We are all so full of  here | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: 
I should've known better than to think there could actually be a discussion about this. Wow. That can't happen here. To seek equitable and worthwhile exchange in this arena is an exercise in futility, which is why I post my comments and move on. I rarely look back to address what others think of my opinion. I don't care. There are interesting topics here that are fun to comment on, but I refuse to get into emotional exchanges with strangers about my opinion or theirs. I'm entitled to what I think, and so is everyone else. The rest of it is a complete and utter waste of time. All that to say, I agree with you. Prince is not 'funky' in the purest sense of the definition. | |
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notaprintztype said: ButterscotchPimp said:
I should've known better than to think there could actually be a discussion about this. Wow. That can't happen here. To seek equitable and worthwhile exchange in this arena is an exercise in futility, which is why I post my comments and move on. I rarely look back to address what others think of my opinion. I don't care. There are interesting topics here that are fun to comment on, but I refuse to get into emotional exchanges with strangers about my opinion or theirs. I'm entitled to what I think, and so is everyone else. The rest of it is a complete and utter waste of time. Or maybe some people are capable of having a level headed discussion...It's not all fandom up in here...lol | |
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murph said: notaprintztype said: That can't happen here. To seek equitable and worthwhile exchange in this arena is an exercise in futility, which is why I post my comments and move on. I rarely look back to address what others think of my opinion. I don't care. There are interesting topics here that are fun to comment on, but I refuse to get into emotional exchanges with strangers about my opinion or theirs. I'm entitled to what I think, and so is everyone else. The rest of it is a complete and utter waste of time. Or maybe some people are capable of having a level headed discussion...It's not all fandom up in here...lol I agree. I feel like the "fammiest" ones of the bunch stayed away from this discussion for the most part. We had some pretty solid answers from people- none of that "Because he's Prince and he's cute, that's why  " crap.  "Love Hurts. Your lies, they cut me. Now your words don't mean a thing. I don't give a damn if you ever loved me..." -Cher, "Woman's World" | |
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so I started another thread, using what I thought was my brilliant analogy of cuisine to describe Prince's music. I figured this thread was getting really long. I thought I would like to know more about how people saw his music from a genre perspective. I thought it would be better to do this on a new thread, where we could move outside the role of funk alone I thought I would be opening up the discussion to people who couldn't be assed plodding their way through these fine pages of dicsussion. What did I get for my hard work? These "fams" you speak of, "Prince is finger licking good" and something else about mash potatoes..... 
http://prince.org/msg/7/280164 [Edited 8/23/08 11:32am] | |
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robinesque said:
so I started another thread, using what I thought was my brilliant analogy of cuisine to describe Prince's music. I figured this thread was getting really long. I thought I would like to know more about how people saw his music from a genre perspective. I thought it would be better to do this on a new thread, where we could move outside the role of funk alone I thought I would be opening up the discussion to people who couldn't be assed plodding their way through these fine pages of dicsussion. What did I get for my hard work? These "fams" you speak of, "Prince is finger licking good" and something else about mash potatoes.....
http://prince.org/msg/7/280164 [Edited 8/23/08 11:32am] 
I just read it. I see your point...  "Love Hurts. Your lies, they cut me. Now your words don't mean a thing. I don't give a damn if you ever loved me..." -Cher, "Woman's World" | |
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MattyJam said: ButterscotchPimp - Throughout this thread you have acted as if you have some kind of authority on the definition of funk music. You talk as if you're George Clinton yourself... when infact you're just a fan of the genre like the rest of us.
Clearly we all have different ideas on what funk is. Now, somebody who claims that "Raspberry Beret" is funky is just plain wrong, but you dismissing the blatant, obvious funk of Scarlet Pussy is also wrong. Funk music isn't rocket science... you seem to be struggling to define funk but it really shouldn't be that difficult if you know, love and appreciate the genre as you claim to. Hell yeah, i would also like to know why you think that you're such an funk expert. I mean i listened to funk music all my life, i really grew up with it.
And now you come along and act like you would be the only person in the whole wide word, who is in the know what funk music is! The only person that can decide if a song is "funk" or just "funky" as you say... I bet you dont even play an instrument! Unfortunately , up to now you didnt even come up with a clear musical (and I MEAN musical!) defintion of what funk really is.. You said you gave an defintion, but i cant find it anywhere in this thread! But maybe i just overlooked it, so would be nice if you could post "your personal defintion" of funk again! Again I see your point that P is not a true funk artist in the traditional sense. I also agree that most of P's Music is definitely NOT funk. BUT "Erotic City" IS a funk song. Man, you could even aks "your god" George Clinton personally and he will tell you the same - Erotic City IS a funk song. Apart from that, i think its ridiculous to say the only "true" funk legends out there are Sly, George and Bootsy. A lot of Slys stuff isnt even funk!. I'm startin to wondering if you ever listened to all of his records? Anyways,that was the kind of music they did some 40 years ago. Funk has changed since then.Read murphs post for reference. Please get over it! Nowadays the call other acts than Elvis Presley Rock N Roll as well you know 
There are many people on this forum, who are true music lovers. People which know a lot about music. Befor you try to prove all of us wrong, it would be nice if you could tell us all a little bit more about your musical background? Would be nice to know, why you're thinking of yourself as such an expert? Sorry for my bad english "ohYeeeeeah" said: I'm a massive Bowie fan. Even on Scary Monsters, I always skip Fame ... | |
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HamsterHuey said: TheKid3121 said: what would be the definition of funk??
www.allmusic.com says Named after a slang word for "stink," funk was indeed the rawest, most primal form of R&B, surpassing even Southern soul in terms of earthiness. It was also the least structured, often stretching out into extended jams, and the most Africanized, built on dynamic, highly syncopated polyrhythms. As such, it originally appealed only to hardcore R&B audiences. The groove was the most important musical element of funk — all the instruments of the ensemble played off of one another to create it, and worked it over and over. Deep electric bass lines often served as main riffs, with an interlocking web of short, scratchy guitar chords and blaring horns over the top. Unlike nearly every form of R&B that had come before it, funk didn't confine itself to the 45-rpm single format and the classic verse/chorus song structure. Funk bands were just as likely to repeat a catchy chant or hook out of the blue, and to give different song sections equal weight, so as not to disrupt the groove by building to a chorus-type climax. In essence, funk allowed for more freedom and improvisation, and in that respect it was similar to what was happening around the same time in blues-rock, psychedelia, and hard rock (in fact, Jimi Hendrix was a major inspiration for funk guitar soloists). The roots of funk lay in James Brown's post-1965 soul hits, particularly "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" (1965) and "Cold Sweat" (1967). Sly & the Family Stone, who started out as a soul band influenced by rock and psychedelia, became a full-fledged (albeit pop-savvy) funk outfit with 1969's Stand!. However, the record that officially ushered in the funk era was James Brown's epochal "Get Up (I Feel Like Being A) Sex Machine." The arrangement was spare, the groove hard-hitting, and Brown's lyrics were either stream-of-consciousness slogans or wordless noises. Brown followed it with more records over the course of 1970 that revolutionized R&B, and paved the way for the third artist of funk's holy trinity, George Clinton. Clinton's Parliament and Funkadelic outfits made funk the ultimate party music, not just with their bizarre conceptual humor, but their sheer excess — huge ensembles of musicians and dancers, all jamming on the same groove as long as they possibly could. Thanks to Sly, Brown, and Clinton, many new and veteran R&B acts adopted funk as a central style during the '70s. Funk gradually became smoother as disco came to prominence in the mid- to late '70s, and lost much of its distinguishing earthiness. However, it had a major impact on jazz (both fusion and soul-jazz), and became the musical foundation of hip-hop. Thanks to the latter, funk enjoyed a renaissance during the '90s, especially among white audiences who rushed to explore its original classics. I can't seem to let this thread go.... 'America' the 21min version.... that would be have to be 'funk' wouldn't it? I think I also consider 'Head' to be 'funk' especially in how it was played live. and maybe 'I would die for you'... certainly the way he played it live, with everyone on stage like that would have to be a nod to the over the top shows of the psychedelic funk shows I don't really hear it in more recent stuff though. The bass might be there, and he may throw some horns in, but that doesn't make it funk, I don't think. An ingredient maybe, but not the base of the recipe. [Edited 8/23/08 17:21pm] | |
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notaprintztype said: ButterscotchPimp said:
I should've known better than to think there could actually be a discussion about this. Wow. That can't happen here. To seek equitable and worthwhile exchange in this arena is an exercise in futility, which is why I post my comments and move on.No you don't. I rarely look back to address what others think of my opinion. I don't care. Yes you do. There are interesting topics here that are fun to comment on, but I refuse to get into emotional exchanges with strangers about my opinion or theirs. I'm entitled to what I think, and so is everyone else. The rest of it is a complete and utter waste of time. Like it or not, believe it or not there is a right and wrong way to express an opinion, leaving "emotion" out of it, you're doing it wrong. I mean just imagine, the President of the United States saying, "It's my opinion that Canada is useless, and they should be nuked." He doesn't offer support, he doesn't present data, he just says, "I think so therefore it is so." The president making an outlandish statement like that about Canada, equates to roughly the same thing that you and dumb ass are saying. "Prince can't play funk." Yet you offer no support, you just say it. It tells me a couple of things, 1. You really need some attention, or 2. You're an idiot or 3. You've not listened to one note of any song from either of the first two albums from The Time. Or all 3. All that to say, I agree with you. Prince is not 'funky' in the purest sense of the definition. Something that has still not been defined, because it can't be. Therefore the statement carries zero validity. | |
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robinesque said:[quote] HamsterHuey said: www.allmusic.com says Named after a slang word for "stink," funk was indeed the rawest, most primal form of R&B, surpassing even Southern soul in terms of earthiness. It was also the least structured, often stretching out into extended jams, and the most Africanized, built on dynamic, highly syncopated polyrhythms. As such, it originally appealed only to hardcore R&B audiences. The groove was the most important musical element of funk — all the instruments of the ensemble played off of one another to create it, and worked it over and over. Deep electric bass lines often served as main riffs, with an interlocking web of short, scratchy guitar chords and blaring horns over the top. Unlike nearly every form of R&B that had come before it, funk didn't confine itself to the 45-rpm single format and the classic verse/chorus song structure. Funk bands were just as likely to repeat a catchy chant or hook out of the blue, and to give different song sections equal weight, so as not to disrupt the groove by building to a chorus-type climax. In essence, funk allowed for more freedom and improvisation, and in that respect it was similar to what was happening around the same time in blues-rock, psychedelia, and hard rock (in fact, Jimi Hendrix was a major inspiration for funk guitar soloists). The roots of funk lay in James Brown's post-1965 soul hits, particularly "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" (1965) and "Cold Sweat" (1967). Sly & the Family Stone, who started out as a soul band influenced by rock and psychedelia, became a full-fledged (albeit pop-savvy) funk outfit with 1969's Stand!. However, the record that officially ushered in the funk era was James Brown's epochal "Get Up (I Feel Like Being A) Sex Machine." The arrangement was spare, the groove hard-hitting, and Brown's lyrics were either stream-of-consciousness slogans or wordless noises. Brown followed it with more records over the course of 1970 that revolutionized R&B, and paved the way for the third artist of funk's holy trinity, George Clinton. Clinton's Parliament and Funkadelic outfits made funk the ultimate party music, not just with their bizarre conceptual humor, but their sheer excess — huge ensembles of musicians and dancers, all jamming on the same groove as long as they possibly could. Thanks to Sly, Brown, and Clinton, many new and veteran R&B acts adopted funk as a central style during the '70s. Funk gradually became smoother as disco came to prominence in the mid- to late '70s, and lost much of its distinguishing earthiness. However, it had a major impact on jazz (both fusion and soul-jazz), and became the musical foundation of hip-hop. Thanks to the latter, funk enjoyed a renaissance during the '90s, especially among white audiences who rushed to explore its original classics. I can't seem to let this thread go.... 'America' the 21min version.... that would be have to be 'funk' wouldn't it? I think I also consider 'Head' to be 'funk' especially in how it was played live. and maybe 'I would die for you'... certainly the way he played it live, with everyone on stage like that would have to be a nod to the over the top shows of the psychedelic funk shows I don't really hear it in more recent stuff though. The bass might be there, and he may throw some horns in, but that doesn't make it funk, I don't think. An ingredient maybe, but not the base of the recipe. [Edited 8/23/08 17:21pm] The groove was the most important musical element of funk — all the instruments of the ensemble played off of one another to create it, and worked it over and over. Deep electric bass lines often served as main riffs, with an interlocking web of short, scratchy guitar chords and blaring horns over the top.
interesting, this could be\describes reggae as well [Edited 8/23/08 23:56pm] Snare drum pound on the 2 & 4 | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: i maintain Prince has done NOTHING to "keep funk alive". Not the genre.
I'll start here. As a teenager living in the North of England in the 80s, I heard Prince's music, and became a fan. Through his music, I discovered, among others, James Brown and George Clinton; now, in my mid-thirties, living in London, I play my DVD of Parliament's Earth Tour to everyone who comes around when we're getting ready for a night out.  If it weren't for Prince, I'm sure I'd be playing them Kaiser Chiefs or something. So, I think he has in fact kept funk alive throughout the globe, despite not making strings of albums that faithfully reproduce the raw sound of 70s funk (which was, may I point out, as much to do with the production as the stripped-down instrumentation—production which bands on Daptone label in England are currently reproducing amazingly well).
His recorded output, as we have seen, is genre-defying. While James Brown is a funk artist, and John Coltrane is a jazz artist, Prince is capable enough a musician to dabble in these areas, and he enjoys doing so. "Now you can all take a bite of my purple rock", &c. He is an artist who can play funk, jazz, pop, whatever. While I am sure he could make funk album after funk album, he would get very bored doing so, I am sure. Fair enough. So we get eclectic albums sprinkled with rap or jazz or funk or whatever kind of music is in his head that month. Which is what we all love. But when he plays funk, what I do know is that he's not faking it. His nose is still the same length after decades, you know? For me, he certainly *has* the funk. It's just not his entirety. He's not one-dimensional. And that's great, of course. He bears a standard for all the music he loves, and introduces new audiences to the principles of funk all the times, as he did for me all those years ago. Yay!
As for Wendy and Lisa, they're just great. They added a lot to his music, and I think those years were so successful because they challenged him in many ways—in ways which "only best friends can". I think he really needs that, and I think he has been surrounded by "yes-men" for too long, and tried to please too many people, and the wrong people—ie, people other than himself. Anyway, Wendy and Lisa, too, know funk. I have seen Wendy play guitar, and that's enough for me; I don't require their every album to be a James Brown pastiche. The difference that's crucial for me is between people who have it and those who don't, not between people who are it and nothing else and those who are it and many other things too. Prince records I would describe as "funky", among others: Love Or Money (sleazy!) I Wish U Heaven (part III) We Can Funk La La La He He Hee (that bass!) Tamborine (can't understand why this song isn't more popular) Kiss If you limit your definition of "funk" enough, then Prince won't fit in there at all, of course. But, being Prince fans, we're about opening up boundaries, broadening our horizons, aren't we? Yes, Prince's own funk is not the tightly-controlled aggressive sex-funk of James Brown, nor the cartoonish, psychedelic anything-goes funk of Parliament (are they not different enough in themselves?); it's quirky, high-pitched, experimental funk born of all the things that came before it and funnelled through a small (but so is dymanite!) guy from Minneapolis. Again: Yay! But, really, funk is something you have, not something you play. And Prince has it; of that much I'm sure. qw | |
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HamsterHuey said: TheKid3121 said: what would be the definition of funk??
www.allmusic.com says Named after a slang word for "stink," funk was indeed the rawest, most primal form of R&B, surpassing even Southern soul in terms of earthiness. It was also the least structured, often stretching out into extended jams, and the most Africanized, built on dynamic, highly syncopated polyrhythms. As such, it originally appealed only to hardcore R&B audiences. The groove was the most important musical element of funk — all the instruments of the ensemble played off of one another to create it, and worked it over and over. Deep electric bass lines often served as main riffs, with an interlocking web of short, scratchy guitar chords and blaring horns over the top. Unlike nearly every form of R&B that had come before it, funk didn't confine itself to the 45-rpm single format and the classic verse/chorus song structure. Funk bands were just as likely to repeat a catchy chant or hook out of the blue, and to give different song sections equal weight, so as not to disrupt the groove by building to a chorus-type climax. In essence, funk allowed for more freedom and improvisation, and in that respect it was similar to what was happening around the same time in blues-rock, psychedelia, and hard rock (in fact, Jimi Hendrix was a major inspiration for funk guitar soloists). The roots of funk lay in James Brown's post-1965 soul hits, particularly "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" (1965) and "Cold Sweat" (1967). Sly & the Family Stone, who started out as a soul band influenced by rock and psychedelia, became a full-fledged (albeit pop-savvy) funk outfit with 1969's Stand!. However, the record that officially ushered in the funk era was James Brown's epochal "Get Up (I Feel Like Being A) Sex Machine." The arrangement was spare, the groove hard-hitting, and Brown's lyrics were either stream-of-consciousness slogans or wordless noises. Brown followed it with more records over the course of 1970 that revolutionized R&B, and paved the way for the third artist of funk's holy trinity, George Clinton. Clinton's Parliament and Funkadelic outfits made funk the ultimate party music, not just with their bizarre conceptual humor, but their sheer excess — huge ensembles of musicians and dancers, all jamming on the same groove as long as they possibly could. Thanks to Sly, Brown, and Clinton, many new and veteran R&B acts adopted funk as a central style during the '70s. Funk gradually became smoother as disco came to prominence in the mid- to late '70s, and lost much of its distinguishing earthiness. However, it had a major impact on jazz (both fusion and soul-jazz), and became the musical foundation of hip-hop. Thanks to the latter, funk enjoyed a renaissance during the '90s, especially among white audiences who rushed to explore its original classics. Exactly What I was Trying 2 Say..... Prince covers this definition 2 a T. Even in his "Pop" or "Rock" songs. Peace&BeWild | |
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quarterwit said: ButterscotchPimp said: i maintain Prince has done NOTHING to "keep funk alive". Not the genre.
I'll start here. As a teenager living in the North of England in the 80s, I heard Prince's music, and became a fan. Through his music, I discovered, among others, James Brown and George Clinton; now, in my mid-thirties, living in London, I play my DVD of Parliament's Earth Tour to everyone who comes around when we're getting ready for a night out. If it weren't for Prince, I'm sure I'd be playing them Kaiser Chiefs or something. So, I think he has in fact kept funk alive throughout the globe, despite not making strings of albums that faithfully reproduce the raw sound of 70s funk (which was, may I point out, as much to do with the production as the stripped-down instrumentation—production which bands on Daptone label in England are currently reproducing amazingly well).
His recorded output, as we have seen, is genre-defying. While James Brown is a funk artist, and John Coltrane is a jazz artist, Prince is capable enough a musician to dabble in these areas, and he enjoys doing so. "Now you can all take a bite of my purple rock", &c. He is an artist who can play funk, jazz, pop, whatever. While I am sure he could make funk album after funk album, he would get very bored doing so, I am sure. Fair enough. So we get eclectic albums sprinkled with rap or jazz or funk or whatever kind of music is in his head that month. Which is what we all love. But when he plays funk, what I do know is that he's not faking it. His nose is still the same length after decades, you know? For me, he certainly *has* the funk. It's just not his entirety. He's not one-dimensional. And that's great, of course. He bears a standard for all the music he loves, and introduces new audiences to the principles of funk all the times, as he did for me all those years ago. Yay!
As for Wendy and Lisa, they're just great. They added a lot to his music, and I think those years were so successful because they challenged him in many ways—in ways which "only best friends can". I think he really needs that, and I think he has been surrounded by "yes-men" for too long, and tried to please too many people, and the wrong people—ie, people other than himself. Anyway, Wendy and Lisa, too, know funk. I have seen Wendy play guitar, and that's enough for me; I don't require their every album to be a James Brown pastiche. The difference that's crucial for me is between people who have it and those who don't, not between people who are it and nothing else and those who are it and many other things too. Prince records I would describe as "funky", among others: Love Or Money (sleazy!) I Wish U Heaven (part III) We Can Funk La La La He He Hee (that bass!) Tamborine (can't understand why this song isn't more popular) Kiss If you limit your definition of "funk" enough, then Prince won't fit in there at all, of course. But, being Prince fans, we're about opening up boundaries, broadening our horizons, aren't we? Yes, Prince's own funk is not the tightly-controlled aggressive sex-funk of James Brown, nor the cartoonish, psychedelic anything-goes funk of Parliament (are they not different enough in themselves?); it's quirky, high-pitched, experimental funk born of all the things that came before it and funnelled through a small (but so is dymanite!) guy from Minneapolis. Again: Yay! But, really, funk is something you have, not something you play. And Prince has it; of that much I'm sure. qw wow.. I've just developed a little crush | |
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Wow.
I had a busy weekend, and certainly didn't expect to check in here today and find this thread still going on strong. This topic just keeps on keepin on! Let's see what we've got here! http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me...... | |
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robinesque said: murph said: Again...u seem to be switching up your argument to suit your own purpose when people call u out on the shakiness of your initial statement... This is what u originally said: "Prince isn't that "funky". Not in the purest definition of the genre. Sure he likes to throw the word around, but in the PUREST sense of the genre he's not even taken that seriously." Now I don't know about u but I think that's pushing it... There are plenty of "funky" songs that are in Prince's songwriting arsenal...The trouble is u have some antiquated view of what funk constitutes...It's as if u have narrowed it down to George, Bootsy and Sly as being the only types of funk...Prince's funk doesn't fit your ideals because he represents the new wave of funk... Let's put it like this....Songs like "Head," "The Stick" (the Time), "Controversy," "777-9311," "DMSR," and "Lady Cab Driver," were sparse (something very new in funk) and leaned heavily on the synthezier and drum machines rather than the traditional horns and band vibe that was the hallmark of the funk sound...this was revolutionary and quite a shock...to the point where other "funk" acts had to follow the new sound (Cameo, Bar-Kays, George Clinton)... Just reading through your various posts in this thread it is clear that u prefer a certain type of funk: traditional, big body, or straight-ahead... This much was understood when u shot down "Scarlet Pussy" as not being a "funk" song, which is laughable...Your reasoning was even more puzzling: because it was simplistic, it wasn't funk....LOL To me this shows that your own limited view of funk is the main problem here...Because the "funk" giants that count (Sly, George and Bootsy) have all been on record in their praise for Prince's "funk" as well as his "rock," his "new wave," and his other genre-mixtures.... Again, it's one thing to make a post about Prince not being a "funk God"...That is entirely different and u may have a point with that because Prince hybrid sound meant that he never stayed with one sound for too long and that often experimented to the point where his sound was a stew of styles...But saying Prince is a joke in the funk genre is silly controversial posting at best...There's enough of it in his work to dismiss your point... [Edited 8/21/08 22:44pm] And I think it was this statement that has pissed people off... right? I agree, that does seem unnecessarily harsh. But if we move past this statement, the discussion is a worthwhile one in my mind. BP... that website you sent me to wasn't all that helpful for new artists. Can anyone recommend anything? You talking about the Funk Store site? http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me...... | |
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PoorGoo813 said: B4 y'all get any further with this convo/argument.....just a question.
What the hell is a KAK? I'm not on this site all that much, so enlighten me.  Ah. KAK = kool aid kid. My nickname for the diehards on here that think Prince can do no wrong, can play every instrument ever invented and think that Prince should have gotten Academy Award nominations for Best Actor and Best Director for Graffiti Bridge. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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murph said: ButterscotchPimp said: Ah. Well, where you'd say i've switched my argument to suit my own purpose I think i've been pretty consistent throughout this whole thing. Now where my initial statement was pretty harsh and attention grabbing, the basic truth that i was getting at is still there. I maintained (and still maintain) from a pure definition of the genre of FUNK, Prince isn't that funky. Which is DIFFERENT from simply being funky. Now the conversation has evolved with a lot of people making the point that Prince created his own "type of funk". Which again, i don't necessarily agree with
Pushing it for who?...lol...When you see all the great funk bands throw away their horns and start using synthesizers and drum machines in the early '80s following Prince's lead there's no other way to call it...The irony is Prince was not a "funk" artist (Though it certainly was a foundation for him just as rock and pop)...His sound was all over the place...But when he did pull out the "funk" the funk community took notice...Cameo's Larry Blackmon saw the hand writing on the wall (it's no secret why he paired down the group and started using synthesizers and drum machines by 81-82)...George saw it as well, which can be heard on his early solo albums (which were really P-Funk albums).."Atomic Dogg" is George's nod to the new funk that Prince was kicking out... ButterscotchPimp said: There's been new funk since George (granted not a ton of it) i just wouldn't categorize Prince in that category. Prince is his own category. Now where you might find this whole discussion "silly" and dismiss what i've tried to do here, but again i'm not the only one who feels this way, and we really haven't been able to come up with a LOT of Prince songs that can even be classified as "pure funk".
You see what u have to understand is Prince is a tricky act to categorize...Stop letting your antiquated view of funk cloud your judgement...You sound like the traditional jazz heads of the 20's and '30's calling out Dizzy and Charlie Parker because they felt be-bop wasn't "pure jazz"...Such a statement was born out of jealousy and fear...And I would bet that some of your "funk" friends come from that same school... [Edited 8/22/08 8:31am] Again...u seem to be going by your own limited view of what funk is...I can tell you that I too have access to some pretty "funky" heavy hitters/legends...And when ever the conversation about Prince comes up they admit that Prince's brand of "funk" was indeed legit, while at the same time they make it a point to say that it presented problems to the old guard...The problem that some of your friends may have with Prince's "funk" is that it basically signaled end to the "funk" that kept them in business...It ended a lot of careers...
Shit, I would be shocked too if I heard "Head" in 1980 or "The Stick" if I was a musician whose idea of funk was 12 piece band with horns and a sound that was full and a groove that seemed more jam oriented...Prince, however changed that idea, by only keeping the bass and guitar and basically making the synthesizer and Linn drum the bedrock of the groove.."...Again, I think u might want to come down to earth on this one...It's not rocket science... Sure, i'll admit my definition of what "funk" is, is pretty narrow. Because i'm one of those that doesn't think that variations of a music genre are necessarily the same as the original. It's like what happened with "techno". All of a sudden "electronic music" became the same as "techno" when they're not. Or "house music". Again, i don't get the problem with saying that Prince created his own genre of music that has "funk" elements but isn't "FUNK". "The Stick"? Really? "Head"? And i don't think you could say that Prince brought the synthesizers and drum machines to the funk, can you? I think that's the "myth" of Prince's importance to the genre rearing it's ugly head again. "Flash Light" was released in 1977, a year before Prince's debut! One Nation was in '78. Uncle Jam in '79! So how is it that Prince somehow "created" the use of synths and drum machines in the funk again? Prince didn't "invent" that. All music genres at the time were being influenced by what was going on with new wave music which at the time was on the rise. But i'm sorry, George got there first. Before Prince. [Edited 8/24/08 9:44am] http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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pplrain said: ButterscotchPimp said: okay? thanks??? I think you need some gifs to go with this thread. YES!!!!! more gifs!!!! http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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chocolate1 said: murph said: Or maybe some people are capable of having a level headed discussion...It's not all fandom up in here...lol I agree. I feel like the "fammiest" ones of the bunch stayed away from this discussion for the most part. We had some pretty solid answers from people- none of that "Because he's Prince and he's cute, that's why " crap. Which is why i think this conversation is still being had. There's very few conversations that can be had like this one on the Org. Sure you can talk about having fictional dinner parties with Prince, or how you'd "woo" him, but try and have an intelligent conversation about the man's music with some constructive criticism, and they will try to shut you down immediately (they = kak's") http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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robinesque said:
so I started another thread, using what I thought was my brilliant analogy of cuisine to describe Prince's music. I figured this thread was getting really long. I thought I would like to know more about how people saw his music from a genre perspective. I thought it would be better to do this on a new thread, where we could move outside the role of funk alone I thought I would be opening up the discussion to people who couldn't be assed plodding their way through these fine pages of dicsussion. What did I get for my hard work? These "fams" you speak of, "Prince is finger licking good" and something else about mash potatoes.....
http://prince.org/msg/7/280164 [Edited 8/23/08 11:32am] Ugh. I'm sorry. I'll help ya out over there in a bit. http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
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ButterscotchPimp said: PoorGoo813 said: B4 y'all get any further with this convo/argument.....just a question.
What the hell is a KAK? I'm not on this site all that much, so enlighten me. Ah. KAK = kool aid kid. My nickname for the diehards on here that think Prince can do no wrong, can play every instrument ever invented and think that Prince should have gotten Academy Award nominations for Best Actor and Best Director for Graffiti Bridge. if that's ur definition of diehards then i think ur confusing the issues. diehard CAN b objective and not think everything he's done is great. it's the FANATICS that belive he can do no wrong. man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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Funk is. Analysis paralysis is the west's reaction to funk. Its like Solieris' reaction to Amadeus. Pick polka apart. | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: Sure, i'll admit my definition of what "funk" is, is pretty narrow. Because i'm one of those that doesn't think that variations of a music genre are necessarily the same as the original. It's like what happened with "techno". All of a sudden "electronic music" became the same as "techno" when they're not. Or "house music". Again, i don't get the problem with saying that Prince created his own genre of music that has "funk" elements but isn't "FUNK". "The Stick"? Really? "Head"? And i don't think you could say that Prince brought the synthesizers and drum machines to the funk, can you?
Clever...But I Never said Prince was the first to use synths and drum machines (i knew u were going to target that opening...lol)....What i said was he was the first to totally strip it down to the point where the previous funk acts had to switch it up ...thus stripping down the sound and make-up of funk acts: ie Cameo going from a 15 man act to a 4 man act who suddenly used a majority of synth and drum machines...And yeah, folks did call those songs up top "funk"...It just isn't the "funk" that u want it to be... I think that's quite simple to follow, right? ButterscotchPimp said: I think that's the "myth" of Prince's importance to the genre rearing it's ugly head again. "Flash Light" was released in 1977, a year before Prince's debut! One Nation was in '78. Uncle Jam in '79! So how is it that Prince somehow "created" the use of synths and drum machines in the funk again? Prince didn't "invent" that. All music genres at the time were being influenced by what was going on with new wave music which at the time was on the rise. But i'm sorry, George got there first. Before Prince.
Ah...the old bait and switch...Wow homie, u r pretty good at this....Again, you zeroing in on who used synths first is missing entire the point (Nevermind I never said Prince was the first to use either of those instruments)...But he was indeed the first to take the funk (ie, Prince's own brand...) into a new direction sound wise..."Flashlight" was indeed the first to use a synth for a primary bassline...But Prince's "funk" was the first to totally break it down even further...almost everything was synth...almost every part of the groove was non-traditional in instrumentation...That's basically how Funkadelic (ie George) goes from "One Nation under A Groove" to "Atomic Dog"...Or Cameo from "Shake Your Pants" to "Single Life"...Prince's "funk" had a huge impact in that regard... But lets go back to your underlining point... If you would have simply said Prince was not a hardcore funk act or that Prince was far from the funk master that some fans claimed him to be, then that is an entirely different debate, and one worth having...(with some valid points on your side) But instead, you went the "controversial" route by saying Prince was never that funky to begin with...And your reasoning? Because he didn't fit some limited purist view of what funk was...Or the fact that a few folks told u that Prince was a punchline for the funk...lol... The bottom line: Prince was more than capable of being funky and has exhibited this from "Let's Work" to "Billy Jack Bitch.." Again, if you wanted to debate the merits of Prince being a "funk giant" then that's cool... But your initial route seems a little lazy...But hey, it worked... [Edited 8/24/08 19:33pm] | |
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robinesque said:
so I started another thread, using what I thought was my brilliant analogy of cuisine to describe Prince's music. What did I get for my hard work? These "fams" you speak of, "Prince is finger licking good" and something else about mash potatoes.....
First time i've ever been called a fam!
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Good points murph!
I don't understand how BP can point to the "new wave" influences on Clinton/Parliament's music without attaching same purist views, definition and standards he holds Prince to. You didn't hear those influences in James Brown's funk. Does that point to the MYTH of George Clinton's funk. And Prince's stripped down, "new" funk is an influential variation of his funk forefathers. Prince ushered in an area in which producers dominate and big bands (Parliament, Cameo, Lakeside, Ohio Players, EWF) have gone by the wayside. Things evolved, Prince is complex...and he is funk(y). | |
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Co-sign. | |
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ButterscotchPimp said: Ugh. I'm sorry. I'll help ya out over there in a bit.[/quote] If you have already.. appreciated.. It may be a lost cause though. not big deal. but your sympathy is appreciated | |
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