ButterscotchPimp said:

Beautiful Night is questionable? That is a Funk song...pure and simple.
The problem is.....Prince is related to funk, not because of his records. It's his Live performances. Have you experienced how long he can jam with a song? Witnessed when he & the band made up songs on the spot? That's what JB is famous for. That's what Sly is famous for. SHIT the last Clinton show I went to, he only played 3 songs and the show was still 2 hours long. Prince is carrying that tradition. Taking a groove and seeing where it can go. That's what Funk music is all about. All this talk about what funk is.....that is the simplest definition there is. His sound may not be Funk.....but his actions are.

ButterscotchPimp said:

She's my Twilight Zone, My Al Capone...She's Strange and I like it...
No No No No No... Knock me off my feet....
I just let her take my breath away....
If ya give them the Silver for the song....You and I will get along just fine.

ButterscotchPimp said:

Of course you are. When you dillute yourself by avoiding certain posts, I'm not surprised in the least.

Tame said:

Done!


And by the way, i'd give them golds for Rigor Mortis, Shake Your Pants, Flirt and Alligator Woman.

ButterscotchPimp said:

No doubt. I know U like Prince. I just have a problem with you trying to find out why Prince is attached to funk....then calling people wrong for their reasonings.
I feel U negate any Prince FUNK song because it is a Prince FUNK song.
K.I.M. Sly doesn't sound like JB, & JB doesn't sound like George, but they are all funk gods. Why can't Prince just be another derivative of funk?
Minneapolis Funk maybe?

savvy said:

Huh? What posts am i "avoiding"? I think half the reason this thread has gotten so long is i've tried to respond to just about everyone?

PoorGoo813 said:

I'd TOTALLY agree with that last sentence. He certainly has the "funk mentality" of riding a groove and seeing where it takes you (good LORD the America 12").

Oh please.

If it's real, do your own damn homework.

I'm tired of schooling you.

PoorGoo813 said:

Again, i'm really not trying to tell people they're WRONG. I just may not agree, and that's fine. I'm certainly not the "funk judge". As for the reason why i started this, again it was on another thread where some were as i called it "wielding the funk bat" and going on and on about how Prince is better than [blank] because Prince is all about the "funk". I didn't understand that logic, so i started this thread to discuss it. And i think it's gone pretty well. We've had a lively and interesting discussion on the topic, and some really interesting ideas have been expressed. I've even had to amend my position about Prince being somewhat a "keeper of the funk" because as it was pointed out, he's turned people onto the genre.

And again, i think Prince is his own genre in himself. Seriously i have a COMPLETELY SEPARATE CD rack for my "Prince and related" stuff, because i don't think it belongs being filed with any of my other music.

savvy said:

Huh?



was that directed at me?

ButterscotchPimp said:

OK.....Then consider my $2.50 spent.
I hope I've been somewhat helpful....LOL.

PoorGoo813 said:

OK.....Then consider my $2.50 spent.
I hope I've been somewhat helpful....LOL.[/quote]

I've found them helpful..
although i'm not 100% sure where I stand... ingredient or base? And my brain is doing somersaults trying to get my head around the sub genres of funk, and then thinking about sub genres of other genres (eg. swing/twang- that shouldn't even be possible)

ButterscotchPimp said:

-----
Nobody dances to the early "Funkadelic stuff" it is too rock oriented.

One Nation and Knee Deep are the exceptions and people don't dance at all concerts. I cannot image anyone dancing at a PINK FLOYD show.

OK I need some help
...so I know this guy who says he LOVES Sly and the family stone but can't stand Prince. He's having a party on Saturday and tells me to bring some prince....
can I get some suggestions from you guys as to what you might put on a "I love S&TFS" Prince CD?
thanx!

.
[Edited 8/21/08 11:10am]

I dunno butterscotch, I think the jump off point would be to truly define what "Funk" is so folks can comment about where he's elevated it, maintained it, or fallen short of it. It's such a slippery word...

What IS funk? lol I know it when I hear/see/or smell it...but to define it is difficult at best.

Is it a chord progession? A bass technique?

ButterscotchPimp said:

1st off, i don't hate u where u got that i hated u i don't know, however i think that ur very RUDE and perhaps a bit dense and closed minded to certain discussions. u also don't give a defintion of funk but only go by what u grew up around with. but if u want 2 defend urself when someone calls u name, don't u think others will come back 2 u with "hateful" spit when u call them kool aid drinkers? u get what u sow

ButterscotchPimp said:

I don't agree with everything u have said throughout this thread, but u bring up some interesting points...I will say that Prince's "funk" is usally very cold (think "Controversy" or "DMSR") which may give u the impression that he's not traditionally funky...It's "Prince" funk, not P Funk or JB...

But the thing that jumped out to me is your comment on "Head"...That is as pure as "funk" as Prince has ever laid out on record...I've heard a lot of things said about Prince...But I've never heard anyone NOT refer to "Head" as funky...

It's a locked in groove and a thumping bassline and just plain nasty in terms of its rhythm...Actually, your comment about "Head" makes me understand your mindset as well...

this is what wikipedia says about funk:

Funk is an American musical style that originated in the mid- to late-1960s when African American musicians blended soul music, soul jazz and R&B into a rhythmic, danceable new form of music. Funk de-emphasizes melody and harmony, and brings a strong rhythmic groove of electric bass and drums to the foreground. Unlike R&B and soul songs, which had many chord changes, funk songs are often based on an extended vamp on a single chord.

Like much of African inspired music, funk typically consists of a complex groove with rhythm instruments such as electric guitar, electric bass, Hammond organ, and drums playing interlocking rhythms. Funk bands also usually have a horn section of several saxophones, trumpets, and in some cases, a trombone, which plays rhythmic "hits".

Influential African American funk performers include James Brown, Sly and the Family Stone, George Clinton and Parliament-Funkadelic, Curtis Mayfield, The Meters, The Funk Brothers, Bootsy Collins, and Prince. Notable 1970s funk bands included Earth, Wind & Fire, Tower of Power, Average White Band, The Ohio Players, The Commodores, and Kool & the Gang though many of these most famous bands in the genre also played disco and soul extensively. Funk music was a major influence on the development of 1970s disco music and funk samples are used in most styles of house music and hip hop music, and it's also the main influence of Go-Go. Funk even left its mark on New Wave, and its pulse was evident in post punk as well.
_____

Interestingly, the article refers to Prince's music as stripped-down funk.

Prince used a stripped-down instrumentation similar to Rick James, and went on to have as much of an impact on the sound of funk as any one artist since James Brown. Prince combined eroticism, technology, an increasing musical complexity, and an outrageous image and stage show to ultimately create a musical world as ambitious and imaginative as P-Funk or The Beatles. The Time, originally conceived as an opening act for Prince and based on his "Minneapolis sound", hybrid mixture of funk, rock, pop, R&B & new wave. They went on to define their own style of stripped-down funk based on tight musicianship and sexual themes.

Bands that began during the 1970s P-Funk era incorporated some of the uninhibited sexuality of Prince and state-of-the-art technological developments to continue to craft funk hits. Cameo, Zapp, The Gap Band, The Bar-Kays, and The Dazz Band all found their biggest hits in the 80s, but by the latter half of the 80s, funk had lost its commercial impact.

found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...-down_funk

ButterscotchPimp said:

then u don't know what funk is 4 real stop hanging with those in "da club" cause every song he mentioned is funk

L4OATheOriginal said:

'September' is a funk song huh? Riiiiight...

Yes its true 95% of the people that ride on Prince's purple rock dont have a clue about what funk is...
but Prince is Nastay as hell ! a Funk Master to the 10th degree...
and a Far better all around musician than most of the average oldschool funk cats...
i understand your point..but, I also think Prince "Choose' to be a pop star..
If he wanted to hit the one all night long for Years he could have done that in his sleep !
[Edited 8/21/08 13:58pm]

laurarichardson said:

Wait. Surely you're not implying that occasionally at a P-FUNK show, that NO ONE DANCES, are you?

And me personally, i've been known to cut a rug to Funky Dollar Bill, Good To Your Earhole, Red Hot Mama, etc, etc, etc.....

Shorty said:

Wow. Loves Sly and doesn't like Prince?

I don't get that at all. Gimme a sec to unwind after the drive home and i'll try and think of something.....

nobias said:

It is not the easiest thing to nail down definition wise. I do like the All Music Guide definition as a basic reference, though. It's on page 6 of the thread and probably again around page 11?

Damn this thread is 5,000 and counting. Y'all serious as a mofo!!

To say that funk can not be defined, is to be erroneous. If it can be categorized, then it can be defined.


It's just funk. c'mon. Where should we go for the definition of funk, from the masters of funk and unfortunately.... the music labels.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT I CAN DEFINE FUNK. I have not been exposed to enough of it. This is why I can not, and why the rest of us who struggle with the concept cannot.

I do know hard rock when I hear it, I know country when I hear it, I know pop when I hear it, because I have been exposed to tons of it. That goes for classic rock also. So why should I believe that funk can not be defined. It's not magic.

I don't respect Prince for being funky. I respect him for defining the music of the last half of the eighties, I respect him for not riding his own coat tale and dying in his own backwash, I respect him for reaching out and claiming what is rightfully his and telling the recording industry to go f**k themselves even at the cost of radio exposure, (he is simply doing what all men are supposed to do, claim their own destiny and not be the bitch of the empire), I respect him for all of this, plus for the great music he is again churning out here in the 2000's.

I have no desire to meet him, I have never been to one of his concerts because I idolized him as a teen and I know that is a sin, his verses clouded my eyes from the word of God, so I knew there was a personal danger there for me. I didi continue to enjoy his music, and I do not have that problem now. I hope he doesn't stop touring too soon, I may go and catch a show now that he is a real proffessional. I do think he is as entitled to retire as any of us.

I have no desire to be his friend of work with or for him. I think I would not like him and I am sure he would not like me. He definately could not work for me either. I'd push his ass till he popped and collect as much doe off him as I could.... that's just how business works. But I do respect his ability to network to his fans in a way that keeps them coming back for more each year.

So with all of the ways that I respect him and distant myself from him, NONE of it is because I consider him as the king of funk, or consider him funky. I never had the chance to say funky in any of those diagnosis.

That is the only way I can define my feelings towards the funk reasoning.

PoorGoo813 said:

All hail the new King in Town! That's the most precise definition in support of Prince's Funk status I have read! I'm a call U teacher - Cuz you sure know how to school a mofo!!

L4OATheOriginal said:

okay. you don't like me. hate's too strong of a word. yes, i know i'm rude and abrasive. i won't sign off on dense and closed minded, because i don't think i'm either. i think i have a realistic view of Prince. and it just seems (and NOT just to me) that being a realistic fan is not welcome by a lot of "fams" in here. it's like anytime anyone comes in with an opinion that falls short of "Prince is GOD" is POUNCED on. so yeah, i'm a little quick with my wit when i feel like i'm in a situation like that.

BUT, this thread is a classic example of me at my most rational, calm and diplomatic. I don't think i've been necessarily rude on THIS thread.

And i'm sorry, but when i hear what i think is kak behavior then i gotta speak on it. That's not going to change.

murph said:

Again, i think ya'll are confusing me saying some isn't "funk" with something isn't "funky". It's a little confusing i get it, but in my mind there's a distinct difference. "Head" is fo SHO funky. I just don't think of it as a funk song.

But i'll tell you what!!!! My IPOD gave me something to think about when it played "My Drawers" by The Time earlier. I just might have to slap a funk label on that one. I always wished that song was like 10 minutes longer.