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Thread started 08/19/08 7:54am

ButterscotchPi
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The MYTH of Prince's FUNK.

You know, i really was trying to avoid doing this but it's gotten to the point where i can't ignore it anymore. What's going on in the Wendy & Lisa thread has pushed me to my breaking point.

Not telling anyone else how to think. Like all things Prince related, everyone has an opinion. Like the one i keep hearing lately about how the Revolution wasn't "funky". Or was so much less "funky" than later incarnations of the band. Or when i hear another artist being put down for not being as "funky" as Prince.

Well here's the deal i'd like to discuss now.



Prince isn't that "funky". Not in the purest definition of the genre. Sure he likes to throw the word around, but in the PUREST sense of the genre he's not even taken that seriously.

Short of George using Prince to get yet another label home for a minute, no one in the P-Funk camp takes Prince seriously from a "funk" standpoint. To be blunt, he's a joke in the real "funk" camp. He's LAUGHED AT. He's respected as a musician, and for having a lengthy career, but Prince is so fucking far from the "standard bearer" for funk that's it's not even funny. I'm not pulling this opinion out of my ass (although i know i'm going to get accused of doing just that). I'm in Detroit and know and have talked to quite a few heavy hitters over the years who are main-stays in the funk community and Prince isn't taken seriously with these guys AT ALL.

I mean short of borrowing some stage tricks from James Brown, as well as some horn inflections (also borrowed from JB'S) in the TRUEST sense of the genre, how is Prince really that "funky"?

So explain to me how to some of you, Prince became the "keeper of the FUNK"?
http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me......
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Reply #1 posted 08/19/08 7:59am

Graycap23

Here u go with the JOKES again. Do u know any of these people. I assure u....u DON'T, cause that comment is pure nonsense.
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Reply #2 posted 08/19/08 8:04am

ButterscotchPi
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Graycap23 said:

Here u go with the JOKES again. Do u know any of these people. I assure u....u DON'T, cause that comment is pure nonsense.


I'm completely serious. Not joking even a little.
I knew you'd be the first one in here.

Like i said, i'm not going to name drop. Some folks in here know where I am, and what i do for a living, and who i used to be in bands with. Suffice it to say, Prince isn't taken seriously at all in the funk community. Not even a little.

So i'm curious as to how some of you arrived at the conclusion that Prince is somehow the "gold standard" for FUNK?
http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me......
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Reply #3 posted 08/19/08 8:06am

ButterscotchPi
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And while we're at it, what are examples of Prince's version of FUNK that you think makes him significant in the genre?

I assure you, this isn't a "bait" post. I really want to know how and where the myth got started and why it's perpetuated?
http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me......
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Reply #4 posted 08/19/08 8:08am

Graycap23

ButterscotchPimp said:

Graycap23 said:

Here u go with the JOKES again. Do u know any of these people. I assure u....u DON'T, cause that comment is pure nonsense.


I'm completely serious. Not joking even a little.
I knew you'd be the first one in here.

Like i said, i'm not going to name drop. Some folks in here know where I am, and what i do for a living, and who i used to be in bands with. Suffice it to say, Prince isn't taken seriously at all in the funk community. Not even a little.

So i'm curious as to how some of you arrived at the conclusion that Prince is somehow the "gold standard" for FUNK?



Those are u words not mine. Prince is many things, funk just being one of them. That comment is laughable.

Number one, your own ears should be the determining factor, not someone elses comments or thoughts. Prince's FUNK can stand up 2 anyones. Just listen 4 yourself. There is no debate here. If u don't like it, so be it, but 2 come here and make such silly comments is well.....silly. Your point seems 2 be 2 riles folks up 4 absolutely no reason. Is there a point 2 this?
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Reply #5 posted 08/19/08 8:10am

pynkcashmere

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I love Prince, I do, but he's not the keeper of the funk. I think some people don't really know what funk is.
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Reply #6 posted 08/19/08 8:14am

ButterscotchPi
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Graycap23 said:

ButterscotchPimp said:



I'm completely serious. Not joking even a little.
I knew you'd be the first one in here.

Like i said, i'm not going to name drop. Some folks in here know where I am, and what i do for a living, and who i used to be in bands with. Suffice it to say, Prince isn't taken seriously at all in the funk community. Not even a little.

So i'm curious as to how some of you arrived at the conclusion that Prince is somehow the "gold standard" for FUNK?



Those are u words not mine. Prince is many things, funk just being one of them. That comment is laughable.

Number one, your own ears should be the determining factor, not someone elses comments or thoughts. Prince's FUNK can stand up 2 anyones. Just listen 4 yourself. There is no debate here. If u don't like it, so be it, but 2 come here and make such silly comments is well.....silly. Your point seems 2 be 2 riles folks up 4 absolutely no reason. Is there a point 2 this?



See, here we go. I'm not belittling anyone's opinion. I'm not calling what you're saying "silly". I'm not trying to rile anyone up. I'm asking you and anyone else that puts other artists down for not being as "funky" as Prince to explain this position.

My ears are just fine. I was born in DETROIT. Believe me, my ears know FUNK when they hear it. And where Prince has occasionally done some stuff that could be defined as "funky" MAYBE, in the purest sense of what the GENRE IS, he's NOT the "bearer of the funk". Some of you act like he is, and i seriously want to know WHY.

This is one of those threads, where if you want to get into a track by track comparison i'm all for it. But i'm going to be using REAL "bearers of the funk" as a measuring stick, so beware.
http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me......
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Reply #7 posted 08/19/08 8:16am

Graycap23

ButterscotchPimp said:



My ears are just fine. I was born in DETROIT. Believe me, my ears know FUNK when they hear it. And where Prince has occasionally done some stuff that could be defined as "funky" MAYBE, in the purest sense of what the GENRE IS, he's NOT the "bearer of the funk". Some of you act like he is, and i seriously want to know WHY.

.

Lol.....maybe u should talk 2 some of those people.
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Reply #8 posted 08/19/08 8:18am

wonder505

Butterscotch, who said that Prince was the "keeper of funk"?
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Reply #9 posted 08/19/08 8:18am

ButterscotchPi
mp

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Graycap23 said:

ButterscotchPimp said:



My ears are just fine. I was born in DETROIT. Believe me, my ears know FUNK when they hear it. And where Prince has occasionally done some stuff that could be defined as "funky" MAYBE, in the purest sense of what the GENRE IS, he's NOT the "bearer of the funk". Some of you act like he is, and i seriously want to know WHY.

.

Lol.....maybe u should talk 2 some of those people.


So in other words, you just throw that word around a lot to make Prince superior in your mind to other musicians for the sake of defending his purple honor, but you really don't believe it. Got ya.


Anyone else?
http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me......
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Reply #10 posted 08/19/08 8:20am

ButterscotchPi
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pynkcashmere said:

I love Prince, I do, but he's not the keeper of the funk. I think some people don't really know what funk is.



That's my point. I'm getting a little tired of people using "funk" as a reason why Prince is better than [blank] when i maintain Prince isn't that "funky".

Not in the truest definition of what "funk" is.
http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me......
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Reply #11 posted 08/19/08 8:21am

wonder505

ButterscotchPimp said:

pynkcashmere said:

I love Prince, I do, but he's not the keeper of the funk. I think some people don't really know what funk is.



That's my point. I'm getting a little tired of people using "funk" as a reason why Prince is better than [blank] when i maintain Prince isn't that "funky".

Not in the truest definition of what "funk" is.


so just because you don't think Prince is funky the world has to follow your thinking? there is no room for personal opinion on this site?
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Reply #12 posted 08/19/08 8:24am

ButterscotchPi
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wonder505 said:

Butterscotch, who said that Prince was the "keeper of funk"?




Well here's something someone said in another thread.


Tunes like When doves cry, Conditons of the Heart, Tambourine or Sign O the times have been created without one instrument, without one participation of W&L. I love all these people who act like if they were in the studio back then. Like if Prince sent them stuff half finished every day and they have to do all the big work.
They influenced him to play more Rock and psyche stuff but they really seemed not to be into funk at all. Sorry but that's 95% of Prince music : fonk, fonk and fonk and there is no W&L in his funk but more Sly, George or James man.



"95% of Prince's music is fonk fonk fonk"?

As if somehow Prince is on the same level as George, Sly or James? Really?
http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me......
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Reply #13 posted 08/19/08 8:26am

lottielooloo19
68

whatever he's got, he's funking got IT,
unlike your pals that just wanna bitch & are stuck in the 70's!
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Reply #14 posted 08/19/08 8:26am

Graycap23

ButterscotchPimp said:

Graycap23 said:


Lol.....maybe u should talk 2 some of those people.


So in other words, you just throw that word around a lot to make Prince superior in your mind to other musicians for the sake of defending his purple honor, but you really don't believe it. Got ya.


Anyone else?

Are u serious? Show me where I have used those words.
Please.....I'm waiting.

BTW, The music speaks 4 itself, it certainly does NOT need defending as u so politely put it.
[Edited 8/19/08 8:28am]
[Edited 8/19/08 8:33am]
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Reply #15 posted 08/19/08 8:27am

wonder505

ButterscotchPimp said:

wonder505 said:

Butterscotch, who said that Prince was the "keeper of funk"?




Well here's something someone said in another thread.


Tunes like When doves cry, Conditons of the Heart, Tambourine or Sign O the times have been created without one instrument, without one participation of W&L. I love all these people who act like if they were in the studio back then. Like if Prince sent them stuff half finished every day and they have to do all the big work.
They influenced him to play more Rock and psyche stuff but they really seemed not to be into funk at all. Sorry but that's 95% of Prince music : fonk, fonk and fonk and there is no W&L in his funk but more Sly, George or James man.



"95% of Prince's music is fonk fonk fonk"?

As if somehow Prince is on the same level as George, Sly or James? Really?


but that is their opinion!! and who cares?
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Reply #16 posted 08/19/08 8:28am

ButterscotchPi
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wonder505 said:

ButterscotchPimp said:




That's my point. I'm getting a little tired of people using "funk" as a reason why Prince is better than [blank] when i maintain Prince isn't that "funky".

Not in the truest definition of what "funk" is.


so just because you don't think Prince is funky the world has to follow your thinking? there is no room for personal opinion on this site?



Okay, do ya'll even read what i write anymore? Or do you just see my name, read three words and react?

I started off with saying that i get that different people have different opinions. I never said that "Prince wasn't funky". I said in the truest definition of the GENRE OF FUNK, he's not taken that seriously and i maintain from that DEFINITION he's not that "funky".

I'm asking for an explanation from those who feel that Prince is one of the "forefathers" of "funk" as to how they arrived at that conclusion. I'm trying to figure out how some people arrived at this conclusion. I'm not necessarily saying it's "wrong", more than i'm saying i don't understand it.

Read what i'm writing, people!
http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me......
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Reply #17 posted 08/19/08 8:30am

ButterscotchPi
mp

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wonder505 said:

ButterscotchPimp said:




"95% of Prince's music is fonk fonk fonk"?

As if somehow Prince is on the same level as George, Sly or James? Really?


but that is their opinion!! and who cares?



Good lord.
Do people read at all in here?
http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me......
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Reply #18 posted 08/19/08 8:30am

Graycap23

ButterscotchPimp said:

wonder505 said:



so just because you don't think Prince is funky the world has to follow your thinking? there is no room for personal opinion on this site?



Okay, do ya'll even read what i write anymore? Or do you just see my name, read three words and react?

I started off with saying that i get that different people have different opinions. I never said that "Prince wasn't funky". I said in the truest definition of the GENRE OF FUNK, he's not taken that seriously and i maintain from that DEFINITION he's not that "funky".

I'm asking for an explanation from those who feel that Prince is one of the "forefathers" of "funk" as to how they arrived at that conclusion. I'm trying to figure out how some people arrived at this conclusion. I'm not necessarily saying it's "wrong", more than i'm saying i don't understand it.

Read what i'm writing, people!


Your premise does NOT even makes sense. How could Prince be a forefather of funk when funk was damn near dead when Prince came along as an artist?
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Reply #19 posted 08/19/08 8:31am

Marrk

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Ah, but Prince is so much more than Funk alone, as well you know. not much more to say. Prince's eclectic as anybody out there and his catalogue speaks for itself.
Yeah, we'll, we'll try to imagine what silence looks like.
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Reply #20 posted 08/19/08 8:31am

Efan

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I think "funk" gets thrown around a lot but people don't know exactly what it means. That said, I know I don't know what it means, and I know I'm guilty of calling all kinds of songs, not just Prince's, funky, when they wouldn't mean the definition that you would apply to the word. So, for my benefit at least, I'd love to have a better definition of funk so I could use it more appropriately.
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Reply #21 posted 08/19/08 8:31am

ButterscotchPi
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lottielooloo1968 said:

whatever he's got, he's funking got IT,
unlike your pals that just wanna bitch & are stuck in the 70's!



confused


I should've known better than to think there could actually be a discussion about this. Wow.
http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me......
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Reply #22 posted 08/19/08 8:33am

ButterscotchPi
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Graycap23 said:

ButterscotchPimp said:




Okay, do ya'll even read what i write anymore? Or do you just see my name, read three words and react?

I started off with saying that i get that different people have different opinions. I never said that "Prince wasn't funky". I said in the truest definition of the GENRE OF FUNK, he's not taken that seriously and i maintain from that DEFINITION he's not that "funky".

I'm asking for an explanation from those who feel that Prince is one of the "forefathers" of "funk" as to how they arrived at that conclusion. I'm trying to figure out how some people arrived at this conclusion. I'm not necessarily saying it's "wrong", more than i'm saying i don't understand it.

Read what i'm writing, people!


Your premise does NOT even makes sense. How could Prince be a forefather of funk when funk was damn near dead when Prince came along as an artist?



Funk was "damned near dead" when P came along?
REALLY?

And you get what i'm trying to say, Gray.
Not forefather in the sense that he created it, in the sense where he deserves to get mentioned in the same breath as George, Bootsy, Sly or James. Or Betty Davis.
http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me......
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Reply #23 posted 08/19/08 8:34am

wonder505

ButterscotchPimp said:

wonder505 said:



so just because you don't think Prince is funky the world has to follow your thinking? there is no room for personal opinion on this site?



Okay, do ya'll even read what i write anymore? Or do you just see my name, read three words and react?

I started off with saying that i get that different people have different opinions. I never said that "Prince wasn't funky". I said in the truest definition of the GENRE OF FUNK, he's not taken that seriously and i maintain from that DEFINITION he's not that "funky".

I'm asking for an explanation from those who feel that Prince is one of the "forefathers" of "funk" as to how they arrived at that conclusion. I'm trying to figure out how some people arrived at this conclusion. I'm not necessarily saying it's "wrong", more than i'm saying i don't understand it.

Read what i'm writing, people!


but that's what i'm trying to get at. just because someone thinks that Prince's music is funky, how does that translate that he is the forefather of funk.

everytime someone offers their opinion that is not negative or favorable, you get all drama queen and take it and go overboard making it seem like we think Prince is a god or the maker of music, when someone is just offering their view.
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Reply #24 posted 08/19/08 8:35am

lottielooloo19
68

lottielooloo1968 said:

whatever he's got, he's funking got IT,
unlike your pals that just wanna bitch & are stuck in the 70's!


& he redefined funktropolis...
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Reply #25 posted 08/19/08 8:35am

Graycap23

ButterscotchPimp said:

Graycap23 said:



Your premise does NOT even makes sense. How could Prince be a forefather of funk when funk was damn near dead when Prince came along as an artist?



Funk was "damned near dead" when P came along?
REALLY?

And you get what i'm trying to say, Gray.
Not forefather in the sense that he created it, in the sense where he deserves to get mentioned in the same breath as George, Bootsy, Sly or James. Or Betty Davis.

It boils down 2 personal taste at the end of the day.
I'd rank Prince as 4th of time 4 FUNK. That's just me.
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Reply #26 posted 08/19/08 8:35am

lottielooloo19
68

lottielooloo1968 said:

lottielooloo1968 said:

whatever he's got, he's funking got IT,
unlike your pals that just wanna bitch & are stuck in the 70's!


& he redefined funktropolis...


& he put the FUN in funkyy...
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Reply #27 posted 08/19/08 8:36am

lottielooloo19
68

lottielooloo1968 said:

lottielooloo1968 said:



& he redefined funktropolis...


& he put the FUN in funkyy...


& he's BUFF
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Reply #28 posted 08/19/08 8:39am

ButterscotchPi
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Efan said:

I think "funk" gets thrown around a lot but people don't know exactly what it means. That said, I know I don't know what it means, and I know I'm guilty of calling all kinds of songs, not just Prince's, funky, when they wouldn't mean the definition that you would apply to the word. So, for my benefit at least, I'd love to have a better definition of funk so I could use it more appropriately.



Thanks for being open minded. Seriously, i'm not trying to get people all riled up.

I think you're right, i think that the word "funk" does get thrown around in here way too much. And in a lot of ways, it's okay. There's a difference in calling a song "funky" because it makes you feel a certain way. Like if a song makes you want to dance, it's "funky". I get that. And that's fine. Keep on saying it.

I'm speaking more to the people (coughfamscough) who use Prince's "funk" as a measuring stick against other artists. Namely and specifically Wendy and Lisa, to start. The Revolution as a whole. How they weren't "funky" and the band got so much "funkier" later on. Or when discussing Prince vs say someone like Van Hunt, Prince is "fonk" when Van isn't.
http://www.facebook.com/p...111?ref=ts
y'all gone keep messin' around wit me and turn me back to the old me......
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Reply #29 posted 08/19/08 8:41am

Graycap23

ButterscotchPimp said:

Efan said:

I think "funk" gets thrown around a lot but people don't know exactly what it means. That said, I know I don't know what it means, and I know I'm guilty of calling all kinds of songs, not just Prince's, funky, when they wouldn't mean the definition that you would apply to the word. So, for my benefit at least, I'd love to have a better definition of funk so I could use it more appropriately.



Thanks for being open minded. Seriously, i'm not trying to get people all riled up.

I think you're right, i think that the word "funk" does get thrown around in here way too much. And in a lot of ways, it's okay. There's a difference in calling a song "funky" because it makes you feel a certain way. Like if a song makes you want to dance, it's "funky". I get that. And that's fine. Keep on saying it.

I'm speaking more to the people (coughfamscough) who use Prince's "funk" as a measuring stick against other artists. Namely and specifically Wendy and Lisa, to start. The Revolution as a whole. How they weren't "funky" and the band got so much "funkier" later on. Or when discussing Prince vs say someone like Van Hunt, Prince is "fonk" when Van isn't.

Lol...are u saying thw W&L was funky?
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