rnljs said:

Recently? Hmmmmm. Career wise? DEFINATELY.

vainandy said:

Now I would buy tickets to see that... !

oooh oooh I have a good one

Nice long career, influential, writes movie scores, his own albums, writes novels, acts and paints.. produced 3 albums since 2004

Nick Cave

Actually, I feel pretty lucky to live in a town full of ol' timers (some would say) who just keep kicking on doing their thing and doing it damn well (Chris Wilson, Paul Kelly)

ButterscotchPimp said:

I have limited knowledge about their careers, but I see Prince comparable to Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, and Sting as far as singers, song writers, creativity. Neither of them have been able to produce a hit song/album in for what the idustry wants recently. If you are a fan of theirs, you'll buy the next album that comes out. But, they are at a different level of making music. None of them probably care that much about massive record sales. In that group, Prince has faired the best.

robinesque said:

I don't think he is producing crap. And really I think even the haters know what he is releasing isn't crap. They themselves may not be excited by it but it welll stuctured, well written music. Why do people have to talk in extremes? Either it genuis or shit. Where is the middlegound folks? Given the ground that he has covered it is very unlikely Prince is going to be innovative again. Maybe in small more subtle ways but not in way he was when we was young and it was new to him and us. Isn't that just common sense?

I didn't actually say that Prince releases crap. Actually, if you read my posts, i think you'll find that I haven't actually said anything negative about prince (ok the 6*, but that was comparative analysis)

Instead I was suggesting that YOU think he is releasing material that isn't as good, and that because you think Prince is past it and about to drop dead or retire, we should all just take whatever we can get

robinesque said:

ANOTHER excellent choice!!!

tricky99 said:

I do. I think the last three albums have been garbage for the most part, and i haven't hid that fact. Now, that doesn't make me a hater, or unintelligent, or an ex-fan, it makes me A FAN WITH A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN YOURS.


Your "common sense" is "bullshit" to me.

How about Beck? His latest album, Modern Guilt, is his best since Odelay, Guero is pretty damn good (if a little too long), and The Information is ok. Each album sounds refreshingly different from the last, exploring new musical territory - shows the benefit of collaborating with different producers, something which Prince should have cottoned on to in the late 90s.

Other than Beck, how about Commmon, Kanye West and The Roots? They've all dropped their best albums in the past 3 years.

OP, are you insane????

I could name at least 20 or 30 artists. But i won't even take the effort to name them here.

Your awkward prejudice shows youre not much of a musiclover. Try to learn to appreciate music in all its aspects, and come back then.. OK?

Riverpoet31 said:

I really would like to see that list lol. 2004-2007 with the same quantity quality and variety as Prince. I say u go for it.

ButterscotchPimp said:

That being the case u said for the most part. So please do me a favor and list both the garbage and less than garbage of the last 3 albums. I'm really interested in u quantifying this. Am I correct when u say garabge that u mean without any musical merit whatsoever?

tricky99 said:

Why do you want to do this? Can't we agree to disagree? I mean i can certainly give you an in-depth, track by track, blow by blow dissertation on what i didn't like about the last three albums. But the bottom line is, it's not going to change your mind is it? And when i say a Prince song or album is "garbage" do i mean it's just as bad as say Soulja Boy? No. But in my mind it's WORSE. I don't have any expectations for Soulja Boy. I do for Prince. And i know, i know you've stated repeatedly that to be good little purple soldiers we should "lower our xpectations" but i don't want to do that. Not with Prince. I do hold him to a much higher standard. And i'm not going to apologize for that.

ButterscotchPimp said:

At some point u will have to lower your expectations. I hope if Prince is 70 and still making/ performing music u won't feel the need to denigrate his work with such vengefulness. It serves no purpose and just makes u look spiteful. Are u married? I wonder how u deal with your mate aging. Do u belittle them because they gained weight or have wrinkles? Are u upset because their mind ins't as quick as it was when they were 20 instead of 50? Are u upset that your conversations with them aren't full of new relavations? How we accept change and change in other people say alot about our character.

tricky99 said:

WOW.
And then ya'll get shocked when i go off on ya'll.
First you tell me that i HAVE to lower my expectations and then you ask me if i'm married and then compare how i will relate to my spouse? Are you fucking kidding me?

You're on here trying to psycho-analyze anyone that doesn't subscribe to YOUR point of view about Prince? And then you actually have the FUCKING GALL to say, that since someone may not like Prince's last three albums that it somehow says something about their CHARACTER?????


This is why i go off. This is why i think some of ya'll KOOL AID KIDS are FUCKING INSANE.

Prince is your favorite artist. Fine. You think he's the best artist in the history of music. Gotcha. But when anyone strolls in with an opinion that's not as passionate as yours, they're "lacking in character" or "unintelligent".

If i don't like PLANET EARTH, i'm not being "VENGEFUL" it means I DON'T LIKE THE FUCKING ALBUM. I don't want to run Prince over with my car as a result of it. THAT'S "VENGEFUL". But that's what some of you kool-aid-kids act like when someone says something like that. Like Prince is your mom, and i'm standing over her with a baseball bat about to bash her head in.

I think the last three albums are crap. That's it.

I have no more to add aside from what I said earlier and I stand by it. But I must say, this whole thread is making me go

I've woken to find that the OP has started a new thread to continue this.
I'm stunned at your ability to ignore everything we are saying
OP
I can't speak for the previour poster, but regardless of what we think of his recent output, I am not angry with him or feel that he owes me anything.

1. I have high expectations because I think that Prince is an exceptional musician and songwriter.
2. Many artists of similar legnth career have been producing excellent music in the last few years... thus the challenge I think has been met

Which I thought was to show that we can and should expect exceptional music from Kats that have already had long and prolofic careers

That was the point wasn't it?

3. I think what you are interpreting as anger towards Prince, is actually a strong annoyance and frustration with you

4. why do you keep suggesting that prince is old and past it?

shhhh Princey, don't listen to him.. its OK

robinesque said:

You've touched on a valid point that i think SOME fans really want to try and pretend isn't happening. Some of the MOST prolific and celebrated artists in HISTORY during their long careers, "turn the corner". And of course when the artist is IMMENSELY talented it's very very hard for them to escape their own shadow so to speak or to be blunt their previous level of musicianship.

I'll give you an example.
Stevie Wonder.

Now Stevie was easily considered the "Prince" of his day/generation. When he was on top of his game he created some of the most memorable albums/songs in HISTORY. Is he STILL doing that today? Do you think that Stevie is as prolific as he ever was, or do you give him props for what he accomplished and listen HOPING that he'll still find that one creative spark and do something mind blowing again?

Miles Davis! Sting to a large extent. I mean i wish i KNEW WHY it happens but it just seems to. Musicians just "turn that corner" and it's not what it was. I know that they know it happens, which is why i choose to think that lately Prince is psyching himself out because in an attempt to show that he hasn't, he's making it worse. But that's me arm-chair quarterbacking and that's just my opinion. But when he did TRC i thought he found that spark again. I know it when i hear it, and i don't hear it on the last three albums. At all.

I think that's a perfectly reasonable opinion

I really enjoy listening to 3121 and Musicology, but I don't hear that spark either

They feel safe

I like it when I get a sense that prince is exploring something or playing.. doing it for himself rather than for the public

Musicology was about bringing real music to a younger generation... maybe that's why it doesn't feel like it's part of his journey?

I think that is why I like his instrumentals... even when he doesn't quite nail it, you still feel like you along for a ride

As I don't see him retiring any time in the new future, he is bound get back to doing things for himself

robinesque said:

See while i can't listen to Musicology and 3121 (minus about 2-3 tracks on each), i get what you're saying about it feeling "safe". I think that's what turns me off. I think that what i always loved about Prince was that lack of "safety". Maybe that's why i loved TRC so much. Even though i didn't necessarily agree with the message/lyrics, it felt "not safe". It felt like he didn't give a fuck again. And i think that's the part of Prince that i miss. Sure when i listen to the last three albums (well not PE) i can find tracks that remind me of "old Prince". And that's fine for like a minute, but that's not what i'm looking for. I want that "edge". That's why i love (and i KNOW i'm catching hell for bringing this up, but fuck it) Amy Winehouse. She's dangling on the edge of genius/madness and i love what i'm hearing. I don't feel that way when i listen to Prince anymore, and i'm sorry but i MISS THAT.

LOVe Amy... you won't get any disaggreement from me

is it just the drug thing that disturbs people?
I don't like drugs either... but I don't think Amy should pretend she doesn't... it's obvious she love her smack. Hell, it opens up discussion on an important issue, and surely that's good.

tricky99 said:

Hello Tricky99,

Maybe I've got one, it's Nine Inch Nails.

2005: With teeth: great album after 5 years

2007: Year Zero: concept album

same year: Year zero remixed by other artists

same year: Beside you in time live DVD from 2006 US tour with great lights effects on some songs

2008: Ghosts I-IV: 36 instrumental tracks 2-CD. Not the usual NIN album, but some interesting songs

2008: The slip. This album was first on NIN website for free. Now you can buy it with a DVD which contains 5 songs rehearsals before the current US tour.

Of course, you can't compare NIN to Prince musically, but this guy is searching, has a lot of creativity and some great ideas (who here wouldn't have a rehearsals DVD from Prince with a new CD ?)

Bye.

Theride71

I was going to suggest Trent... my housemate loves NIN

good one

ButterscotchPimp said:

I understand what you are saying. I love and have loved that "edge" in Prince too. However I don't have the need to hold Prince to being edgey for him to provide entertaiment and joy to me. if edge is what u want from any artist u are bound to te be disapointed with them all eventually. Any form of endevour no ones stays cutting edge and hungrary forever. Like I said it is a completely unrealistic expectation on your part. If all u get from Prince is edge thats fine. Others among us enjoy Prince for other attributes besides being musically dangerous. Poor Amy will probably burn out well before 30 years. No one blazes red hot and not destruct themselves eventually.

reviving a three day old thread.. is that a unwritten no mo?

But after three days, i have a rebuttal!!!

well sort of.... I have a question for the OP and anyone else

so...

now that we have established that there are a few artists that have been as prolific in the last few years and managed to produce quality music that excite their fans...

White Stripes, Tom Waits, Sting, NIN, Nick Cave (we agreed on these right? and we agree that they still have edge... I am 100% confident that TW will suprise and delight me with his next release and everyone after that)


Could you tell me about these artists that after long careers have been putting out rubbish?

I find the idea that Prince alone has had a long and successful career?

I would argue that the artists that have been around as long as Prince, may not put out quite as much material, but they do not disappoint in the way that Prince does (of at least a large section of his fanbase).

I also object to the idea that there is a quota on how much a person is capable of creating. If I have to read... 'what can you expect after 30 years' I may cry.

And to add another to the world of older artists who still kick ass....

annie lennox (ok, so I haven't heard her last three, but surely with that voice!!)

tricky99 said:

Can't.

Everyone else who has been out uses today's most known producers--so they don't even have a "sound" unless they work with that producer exclusively (like a Fergie--)

Women entertainers do not produce themselves.. So they should not even be considered or compared.

It's hype of working with The Neptunes, etc.. etc.. Once people get over the hype and videos, its overrated. When eMpTV says you're "out", the zombies out here say the same thing. They will be "out" too.. Everyoen who has been popluar over the last 10-15 years is feeling "the pinch" (no matter what their opening weekend results say).

Publicity Stunts, Marketing, Sex Appeal, Youth, have alot to play in it as well.

How long your fans carry you should determine success.

I will offer just a few:
Van Hunt: GREAT debut CD. I would argue that "On The Jungle Floor" alone, on the whole, trumps Prince's output from the last 10- 12 years or so easily. "Popular" is complex and experiments with musical textures as well as different timings, which is extremely rare for anyone these days, especially artists billed under the genre of R&B. It also crosses several genres but keeps R&B as a base. This was also the case with "On The Jungle Floor".


Marcus Miller. (See: Silver Rain, Free, Marcus and Thunder) Unfamiliar? Not my problem. His versatility and musicianship on his records trump Prince's last three.
He's essentially a jazz artist but musically, his material is superior.

Maroon 5: Hate to say it but AS A POP ACT, their material is kickin' Prince's butt. Their music is pop based but they also venture into rock and funk and each record keeps getting better.

At this point, Prince's output teeters between uninspired musical meanderings that are almost "muzac" in their execution and rehash, sprinkled with a few "tribute" type songs.
His course for "new and innovative" seems to have run out. I'm fine with that. Back in the day, he did the damn thing and I will always respect his former output and his ability to blend styles. That being said, a lot of his work of recent could be described as "talking for conversation's sake".

I'd say that the initial "challenge" is flawed. Volume of output doesn't equal quality.
Someone can talk consistently for 2 hours and mumble and someone can talk consistently for 2 hours using mostly 3 and 4 syllable words and both could easily not be saying shit. Someone else could utter one sentence that changes your life.
Oh, and Prince isn't playing every note on all of his records. Stop it with that. Band members have said that before and you all still repeat the Warner Brothers promo/press kit. Yes he can play. No, not every note or musical idea on his records is his and his alone. Stop with that. Stop implying it. Its a whole band's effort, not just Prince.
By the way, nowadays many artists record as many as 30-45 songs for a CD AND THEN NARROW IT DOWN to 16 or so. Prince isn't signed. He can do what he wants and then find a distributor. When you are signed, those songs get put away until you die or buy them back. If you die, the company can make greatest hits and release "previously unreleased" CDs for years to come. (See: 2Pac)
Last but not least, don't forget resources. Not many "real musicians" get them these days. Try naming a list of artists that have the money to do what Prince does without the commitments and restrictions of a record label.
The game is different. Like I said, the initial challenge is flawed.

Bloc Party.

robinesque said:

bollocks

Handel said:

can't say I was ever a fan... did he let you down?

I feel for you