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PrintableMindflux said: MajesticOne89 said: That wasnt the point. The fact is because of his religion and age Prince doesn't do some of the things he did before. He's stopped singing certain songs, stopped doing some stage antics, and because of his reluctancy to go back into his past there's a very slim chance of a release of a DVD of older material. So how are young fans, like myself, who became Prince fans, an artist considered widely as "The Greatest Live Performer", supposed to see the concerts and performances that have made him legendary? I mean, just imagine how someone can become a fan in 10 years or so, come to a prince board and constantly hear, "The Lovesexy Tour was the best ever!! August 3rd was legendary!!! etc etc.." and never get a chance to witness these for themselves... Well, how about like I never got to see Zappa perform? Or Jimi Hendrix? In fact, there are thousands of concerts and events I would have loved to have been at - but, you know what, you just can't have it all! Simple. My first Prince gig was in 1988 - I'm lucky to have seen him the amount of times I have. I would still loved to have seen any shows between 1980 and 1987 - I would have gone to SOTT in '87, but it was cancelled here. But, that's the way it goes sometimes. And it still doesn't mean to say that you can have access to performances other than what has been officially released. What's wrong with what's available? You get the Syracuse concert from 85, the "Birthday" performance from 86, SOTT, Lovesexy - and, right there, you've not only got the man rising to his peak, but you get wildly different styles and songs that is representative of him as the Greatest live performer. (And, of course, there are still so many more to enjoy). I really fail to understand why people feel they have the right to just get whatever they want. Experience, for free, what lot's of other people paid for. (I'm not against people getting things for free, as long as its given to them - not, effectively, stolen!) There are concert videos and DVDs of Prince already available - all wildly different in style and typically representative of the performer. Why is it some feel they will not be satisfied until they have seen every show he's ever done? The thing is, people are willing to pay money for access to this stuff. WTF are you talking about, those vids are available? Where? On Mars? Certainly not in any store or online I've ever seen. Shit -I can't even find a decent quality SOTT DVD or VHS that doesn't cost a retarded amount of money. I don't want to see every show. I just want to see a show. Any show. I don't think that's asking too much. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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weird cause he embraced the internet back in the 90s lots.and even the early 00's he seemed to be in the know.but once the system as he knew it changed(digital era)he seems a bit lost... stubbornly clinging to his old school ways. | |
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Christopher said: weird cause he embraced the internet back in the 90s lots.and even the early 00's he seemed to be in the know.but once the system as he knew it changed(digital era)he seems a bit lost... stubbornly clinging to his old school ways.
I'd seriously love to know what the people at the Webby Awards think of all this after giving Prince that Lifetime Achievement Award last year. | |
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SexyBeautifulOne said: Christopher said: weird cause he embraced the internet back in the 90s lots.and even the early 00's he seemed to be in the know.but once the system as he knew it changed(digital era)he seems a bit lost... stubbornly clinging to his old school ways.
I'd seriously love to know what the people at the Webby Awards think of all this after giving Prince that Lifetime Achievement Award last year. achievement for his music right? surely not his websites?   | |
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Christopher said: SexyBeautifulOne said: I'd seriously love to know what the people at the Webby Awards think of all this after giving Prince that Lifetime Achievement Award last year. achievement for his music right? surely not his websites? LOL!! No, it was for his pioneering efforts and earlier embracing of the internet in it's infancy. You know, waaay back when Prince needed the internet and his fan base!  | |
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SexyBeautifulOne said: Christopher said: achievement for his music right? surely not his websites? LOL!! No, it was for his pioneering efforts and earlier embracing of the internet in it's infancy. You know, waaay back when Prince needed the internet and his fan base! ah,gotcha! thats exactly what i meant.he wholeheartedly embraced the net then. but now hes just at a crossroads/loss. | |
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meow85 said: PatrickS77 said: So what? I also had to cross the border all 4 times I saw him! I even had to fly for 2 of those concerts! Where do you live, and why in God's name would you fly to get to anybody's concert?  Why?? Because I really wanted to see him! I don't wait for and complain that he's not playing in front of my doorstep! | |
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meow85 said: Mindflux said: Well, how about like I never got to see Zappa perform? Or Jimi Hendrix? In fact, there are thousands of concerts and events I would have loved to have been at - but, you know what, you just can't have it all! Simple. My first Prince gig was in 1988 - I'm lucky to have seen him the amount of times I have. I would still loved to have seen any shows between 1980 and 1987 - I would have gone to SOTT in '87, but it was cancelled here. But, that's the way it goes sometimes. And it still doesn't mean to say that you can have access to performances other than what has been officially released. What's wrong with what's available? You get the Syracuse concert from 85, the "Birthday" performance from 86, SOTT, Lovesexy - and, right there, you've not only got the man rising to his peak, but you get wildly different styles and songs that is representative of him as the Greatest live performer. (And, of course, there are still so many more to enjoy). I really fail to understand why people feel they have the right to just get whatever they want. Experience, for free, what lot's of other people paid for. (I'm not against people getting things for free, as long as its given to them - not, effectively, stolen!) There are concert videos and DVDs of Prince already available - all wildly different in style and typically representative of the performer. Why is it some feel they will not be satisfied until they have seen every show he's ever done? The thing is, people are willing to pay money for access to this stuff. WTF are you talking about, those vids are available? Where? On Mars? Certainly not in any store or online I've ever seen. Shit -I can't even find a decent quality SOTT DVD or VHS that doesn't cost a retarded amount of money. I don't want to see every show. I just want to see a show. Any show. I don't think that's asking too much. But who is willing to pay to give you access to all this stuff? To make rare stuff available for the few fans that demand it would not be economically feasable. And, the vids are available! You have the internet, right? No, you won'd find videos from nearly 20 years ago still being produced and put in the shops - same for any artist. However, I was lucky enough to be around when all these things were released - so I bought them. 2 years ago, I was unfortunate enough to be burgled and all my videos were stolen. Yet, I have managed to replace every single one - you're just not looking hard enough. ...we have only scratched the surface of what the mind can do...
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:cough: lack of common sense control freak :cough: man, he has such an amazing body of music that it's sad to see him constrict it down to the basics. he's too talented for the lineup he's doing. estelle 81 | |
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Mindflux said: meow85 said: The thing is, people are willing to pay money for access to this stuff. WTF are you talking about, those vids are available? Where? On Mars? Certainly not in any store or online I've ever seen. Shit -I can't even find a decent quality SOTT DVD or VHS that doesn't cost a retarded amount of money. I don't want to see every show. I just want to see a show. Any show. I don't think that's asking too much. But who is willing to pay to give you access to all this stuff? To make rare stuff available for the few fans that demand it would not be economically feasable. And, the vids are available! You have the internet, right? No, you won'd find videos from nearly 20 years ago still being produced and put in the shops - same for any artist. However, I was lucky enough to be around when all these things were released - so I bought them. 2 years ago, I was unfortunate enough to be burgled and all my videos were stolen. Yet, I have managed to replace every single one - you're just not looking hard enough. You have spoken alot of sense on this thread Mindflux. It's just a shame people have managed to miss the elequantly stated point time & again... People are just too emotionl about it. I'm only 22 & a massive Prince fan. But am I supposed to sue Prince or send him death threats because I wasn't born in time to see his Dirty Mind tour? Or that his Australian tours were in Australia & not in my bathroom? Thats how some people on here are talking. Drop the chips off your shoulders coz nobody owes you anything, least of all Prince. If u spent £15 on a cd back in the 90's, guess what... that was for the right to own THAT cd. He doesn't now have to visit you personally to make sure you are ok & your bed is made on a daily basis. Nor does he have to tolerate footage (that he owns) being misrepresented and used to fund a multimillion pound organisation who refuse to remove footage of people being brutally attacked because it gains them extra net traffic. I was lucky enough to be at 12 dates of the recent 21nights & met LOADS of people who were over from America/Holland/France/Germany, all over the world! I think some people here are too used to the "fast food/deliveries" culture & get angry if they have to walk to the shop. Speaking of which, for all the people ranting on here about not being able to see all the tours coz of evil Prince taking them off youtube and the evil distributers failing to keep copies of the purple rain tour or lovesexy in their local wal-mart - heres a lil something 4 u... AMAZON & eBay! & guess what, they deliver 2!! Youtube is a piece of grainy/inaudible capitalist s**t. Let it go & be more resourceful. I have managed to access concerts from tours as far back as Dirty Mind in DVD quality, for NO money & without the use of youtube. So stop wasting time spouting your venemous bile on here & help yourselves! Lots of Love & Kisses... (D')  | |
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Mindflux said:[quote] MajesticOne89 said: Yes - both of those guys happen to be dead now, so I think you'll find they no longer hold the copyrights! Its no longer within their ability to have a say in what is on YouTube - you dig? 
The Birthday performance was broadcast on TV and Lovesexy was a 2-tape VHS (and some laserdisc editions) release. Off the top of my head, there are some 12-15 official releases of concerts and videos, that's almost one a year and going right through from 1984 to Live at the Alladin. Instead of looking for all this obscure, unofficial, unauthorised material, at least get yourself familiar with what is already on general release, because that kind of undermines your argument about stuff that is available not being representative - ie, how can you say that with any confidence, when you don't even know what's around! The final point is - he is not being paid by YouTube for using his copyrighted work, that is how he is losing money and it really is that simple! Furthemore, YouTube are profiteering off his work (which is more the point, I don't think Prince is really fighting this on a "what's owed to him" basis) AND he has no quality control over what is being broadcast. 12-15?? I doubt it...And I go to places like FYE, Best Buy etc. alot..The only dvds i see are Aladdin, Purple Rain the movie, UTCM, Graffiti Bridge,The Diamonds and Pearls dvd and Rave 2000 so idk where you get those other releases from...And it really isnt that simple because how can he be losing money if he wasn't getting any in the first place?? So what if youtube isnt paying him, he's not gaining anymore by not having clips of the 1999 tour, aftershows, etc than he would be if they were still uploaded. Like someone said, if he's so concerned about gaining money, then put out some dvds, if not who cares, nobody else who have these same "copyrights" are complaining.... | |
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Mindflux said: I really fail to understand why people feel they have the right to just get whatever they want. Experience, for free, what lot's of other people paid for. (I'm not against people getting things for free, as long as its given to them - not, effectively, stolen!) There are concert videos and DVDs of Prince already available - all wildly different in style and typically representative of the performer. Why is it some feel they will not be satisfied until they have seen every show he's ever done? Prince doesn't owe us anything. We owe him our respect.    | |
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Mindflux said: I really fail to understand why people feel they have the right to just get whatever they want. Experience, for free, what lot's of other people paid for. (I'm not against people getting things for free, as long as its given to them - not, effectively, stolen!) There are concert videos and DVDs of Prince already available - all wildly different in style and typically representative of the performer. Why is it some feel they will not be satisfied until they have seen every show he's ever done? 
Prince doesn't owe us anything. We owe him our respect for bringing us the music.    | |
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MajesticOne89 said:[quote] Mindflux said: MajesticOne89 said: Yes - both of those guys happen to be dead now, so I think you'll find they no longer hold the copyrights! Its no longer within their ability to have a say in what is on YouTube - you dig?
The Birthday performance was broadcast on TV and Lovesexy was a 2-tape VHS (and some laserdisc editions) release. Off the top of my head, there are some 12-15 official releases of concerts and videos, that's almost one a year and going right through from 1984 to Live at the Alladin. Instead of looking for all this obscure, unofficial, unauthorised material, at least get yourself familiar with what is already on general release, because that kind of undermines your argument about stuff that is available not being representative - ie, how can you say that with any confidence, when you don't even know what's around! The final point is - he is not being paid by YouTube for using his copyrighted work, that is how he is losing money and it really is that simple! Furthemore, YouTube are profiteering off his work (which is more the point, I don't think Prince is really fighting this on a "what's owed to him" basis) AND he has no quality control over what is being broadcast. 12-15?? I doubt it...And I go to places like FYE, Best Buy etc. alot..The only dvds i see are Aladdin, Purple Rain the movie, UTCM, Graffiti Bridge,The Diamonds and Pearls dvd and Rave 2000 so idk where you get those other releases from...And it really isnt that simple because how can he be losing money if he wasn't getting any in the first place?? So what if youtube isnt paying him, he's not gaining anymore by not having clips of the 1999 tour, aftershows, etc than he would be if they were still uploaded. Like someone said, if he's so concerned about gaining money, then put out some dvds, .... Thanks djenerate and mzflash - glad you're feeling it
Yes - let me correct myself - its 10. You've only listed 3 that are on the list of 10! (these are concert videos/dvds and doesn't include feature films like Purple Rain). "idk where you get those other releases from" - are you serious? Are you really questioning as to whether these products exist??!!  Its very easy for you to find out, you know?
"And it really isnt that simple because how can he be losing money if he wasn't getting any in the first place?? So what if youtube isnt paying him" - right, there's this organisition called the Performing Rights Society (of which, I'm a member) - it ensures that whenever an artists work is used in performance (for example, played on a radio station/tv) they ensure the artist is paid a fee for their work being used. Seems fair, doesn't it? So then, why should YoutTube be exempt from this practice? Prince is effectively losing money because he is not receiving what he is entitled to. But, as mentioned many times, its a more far-reaching issue than being entirely about money. "if not who cares, nobody else who have these same "copyrights" are complaining" - er, I don't think you're right there and you're going to be seeing a lot more of this happening. [Edited 10/1/07 19:53pm] ...we have only scratched the surface of what the mind can do...
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madhouseman said: why doesn't he post all of his videos on a site with ads on it so he can collect revenue from us watching them? It seems like a win win situation and he can control the financial aspects of it. I totally get him trying to stop others from profiting on his work, but if there is a market for seeing his videos, etc. then he should do what a smart businessman would do and find a way to use the internet to make that profit and make it undesirable for others to try to fight him.
I know that if Prince had a great site like that, I'd go... but so far, he hasn't wowed me with his internet savvy. Any other ideas? Send computers to the homeless shelter....lets them get a wow and move on.... THE B EST BE YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOUR SELF ISNT A DYCK[/r]
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Mindflux said: MajesticOne89 said: 12-15?? I doubt it...And I go to places like FYE, Best Buy etc. alot..The only dvds i see are Aladdin, Purple Rain the movie, UTCM, Graffiti Bridge,The Diamonds and Pearls dvd and Rave 2000 so idk where you get those other releases from...And it really isnt that simple because how can he be losing money if he wasn't getting any in the first place?? So what if youtube isnt paying him, he's not gaining anymore by not having clips of the 1999 tour, aftershows, etc than he would be if they were still uploaded. Like someone said, if he's so concerned about gaining money, then put out some dvds, .... Thanks djenerate and mzflash - glad you're feeling it
Yes - let me correct myself - its 10. You've only listed 3 that are on the list of 10! (these are concert videos/dvds and doesn't include feature films like Purple Rain). "idk where you get those other releases from" - are you serious? Are you really questioning as to whether these products exist??!! Its very easy for you to find out, you know?
Well I've looked and haven't been very successful, if you would be so kindly to just like the other 7; I'd more than appreciate it
"And it really isnt that simple because how can he be losing money if he wasn't getting any in the first place?? So what if youtube isnt paying him" - right, there's this organisition called the Performing Rights Society (of which, I'm a member) - it ensures that whenever an artists work is used in performance (for example, played on a radio station/tv) they ensure the artist is paid a fee for their work being used. Seems fair, doesn't it? So then, why should YoutTube be exempt from this practice? Prince is effectively losing money because he is not receiving what he is entitled to. But, as mentioned many times, its a more far-reaching issue than being entirely about money. Hmmm see this is the heart of the problem. I know where you guys are coming from and don't get me mixed in with the crybabies on here are spoiled and think prince is being the bad guy. It's just, I kinda equate this to a CD for instance. You buy it once and then it's all yours. Sure you can't reproduce it and sell it, but you can show it to numerous amounts of friends or let them rip to their computers or borrow it or w/e w/o paying an additional fee. I always looked at live performances as you get paid whatever by the employer (which is usually a deal that involves how ever much you make with ticekt sales) and that's it. But then I get what your saying about the performances, is youtube (to compare it to cds) is replicating and selling w/o giving profit to the artist, where as i see it as the artist made the money off the intial purchase/pay and now that its mine i can let someone borrow it, where as youtube that someone is the whole world I just thought since youtube was profiting (or maybe it is im not sure) it wouldn't be so bad, but i guess not.
"if not who cares, nobody else who have these same "copyrights" are complaining" - er, I don't think you're right there and you're going to be seeing a lot more of this happening. yea probably, this will spark a little revolution i suppose [Edited 10/1/07 19:53pm] | |
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Mindflux said: meow85 said: The thing is, people are willing to pay money for access to this stuff. WTF are you talking about, those vids are available? Where? On Mars? Certainly not in any store or online I've ever seen. Shit -I can't even find a decent quality SOTT DVD or VHS that doesn't cost a retarded amount of money. I don't want to see every show. I just want to see a show. Any show. I don't think that's asking too much. But who is willing to pay to give you access to all this stuff? To make rare stuff available for the few fans that demand it would not be economically feasable. And, the vids are available! You have the internet, right? No, you won'd find videos from nearly 20 years ago still being produced and put in the shops - same for any artist. However, I was lucky enough to be around when all these things were released - so I bought them. 2 years ago, I was unfortunate enough to be burgled and all my videos were stolen. Yet, I have managed to replace every single one - you're just not looking hard enough. Of course I've got the internet and I have looked! If they were there to find, I'd have them by now and not be bitching, wouldn't I? I think you're wrong about the lack of feasibility of releasing rare shows to DVD. Prince has a sizable fanbase, and provided he doesn't fuck things up too badly, that fanbase will only continue to grow as his legend grows. If you offer it, they will come. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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PatrickS77 said: meow85 said: Where do you live, and why in God's name would you fly to get to anybody's concert? Why?? Because I really wanted to see him! I don't wait for and complain that he's not playing in front of my doorstep! Not everybody has the time or money required to fly to see any show, no matter how badly we might want to. Most of us don't, more likely than not. If you did, then I'm glad you had the opportunity. I'm not looking for him to play on my doorstep.  I don't even ever expect Prince to play in my city. Ever. But what's his problem he can't come out to Vancouver? That city's got both the population and the demographics to support a Prince gig.
If he's not going to make it so that people can see him play live, it wouldn't kill him to make, say, a tour DVD available for a price. I completely understand his not wanting freebies handed out. It's his work, he deserves to be paid for it, and he doesn't want us watching inferior quality vids either. What I don't understand is why he can't give us something official and well-produced and just charge for it. People who can't afford the 80 bucks plus travelling expenses for a live concert can at least afford an 18 dollar DVD. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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Mindflux said: MajesticOne89 said: 12-15?? I doubt it...And I go to places like FYE, Best Buy etc. alot..The only dvds i see are Aladdin, Purple Rain the movie, UTCM, Graffiti Bridge,The Diamonds and Pearls dvd and Rave 2000 so idk where you get those other releases from...And it really isnt that simple because how can he be losing money if he wasn't getting any in the first place?? So what if youtube isnt paying him, he's not gaining anymore by not having clips of the 1999 tour, aftershows, etc than he would be if they were still uploaded. Like someone said, if he's so concerned about gaining money, then put out some dvds, .... Thanks djenerate and mzflash - glad you're feeling it
Yes - let me correct myself - its 10. You've only listed 3 that are on the list of 10! (these are concert videos/dvds and doesn't include feature films like Purple Rain). "idk where you get those other releases from" - are you serious? Are you really questioning as to whether these products exist??!! Its very easy for you to find out, you know?
"And it really isnt that simple because how can he be losing money if he wasn't getting any in the first place?? So what if youtube isnt paying him" - right, there's this organisition called the Performing Rights Society (of which, I'm a member) - it ensures that whenever an artists work is used in performance (for example, played on a radio station/tv) they ensure the artist is paid a fee for their work being used. Seems fair, doesn't it? So then, why should YoutTube be exempt from this practice? Prince is effectively losing money because he is not receiving what he is entitled to. But, as mentioned many times, its a more far-reaching issue than being entirely about money. "if not who cares, nobody else who have these same "copyrights" are complaining" - er, I don't think you're right there and you're going to be seeing a lot more of this happening. [Edited 10/1/07 19:53pm] But if the videos in question are pre-1993, Prince doesn't own any of it at all, and won't make or lose money regardless of who's distributing it. If it's about profit, why is Prince bitching when it's Warner that's losing money?  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: Mindflux said: Thanks djenerate and mzflash - glad you're feeling it
Yes - let me correct myself - its 10. You've only listed 3 that are on the list of 10! (these are concert videos/dvds and doesn't include feature films like Purple Rain). "idk where you get those other releases from" - are you serious? Are you really questioning as to whether these products exist??!! Its very easy for you to find out, you know?
"And it really isnt that simple because how can he be losing money if he wasn't getting any in the first place?? So what if youtube isnt paying him" - right, there's this organisition called the Performing Rights Society (of which, I'm a member) - it ensures that whenever an artists work is used in performance (for example, played on a radio station/tv) they ensure the artist is paid a fee for their work being used. Seems fair, doesn't it? So then, why should YoutTube be exempt from this practice? Prince is effectively losing money because he is not receiving what he is entitled to. But, as mentioned many times, its a more far-reaching issue than being entirely about money. "if not who cares, nobody else who have these same "copyrights" are complaining" - er, I don't think you're right there and you're going to be seeing a lot more of this happening. [Edited 10/1/07 19:53pm] But if the videos in question are pre-1993, Prince doesn't own any of it at all, and won't make or lose money regardless of who's distributing it. If it's about profit, why is Prince bitching when it's Warner that's losing money? I am glad you have a better understanding of this now. I agree with you that a DVD of another tour would be warmly received. I would infact love to own a DVD of every concert he ever plays, so I am not in any way biting at you or anybody else for wanting to see these shows. I have been lucky with this london leg of the tour but will feel a bit sad that I won't be able to attend the next shows he does wherever. But we have to agree that is nobody's particular fault. Anyhow, the fact that WB owns certain shows does not mean that he is not due his publishing royalties for which he would be payed on every original composition of his that is featured on the DVD in question. Again, youtube has no mechanism in place for this revenue to reach the artists. His video for "Guitar" had been officially handed to youtube to use for the sake of promotion for his forthcoming single/verizon partnership. Besdes that, I don't see this as an issue of money or greed. That fact remains that it is his face & his art that is being shown in these places & I'm sure you would agree, whoever you are and however famous you are, if there is video footage out there which doesn't represent you how you would want to be (makes your music sound echoey & distant & make his show look anything but the tightly choreographed spectacle that is was) then you would use whatever legal powers you had to reclaim that stuff. Anyhow, instead of calling eachother out about our differing opinions, why don't we just celebrate our similarities... Fact: We would all love to be able to access and own MORE Prince material & footage. Fact: We all feel dissapointed when there are concerts played by our favorite atrists and we cannot make it to them for whatever reason. Fact: Youtube has been a useful resource to find access to things we haven't perhaps seen, but unfortunately for some that resouce may not be available in the same way again. But for every door that closes, another one opens. Let's all shake hands and be cool. & for all the people on here who are finding it difficult to find previously authorised concert movie releases from Prince, give me a shout & I will try & help you locate these missing gems from your collection. But lets try & lower the temperature on this board a lil. | |
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Mindflux said: But who is willing to pay to give you access to all this stuff? To make rare stuff available for the few fans that demand it would not be economically feasable.
Bullshit. Bootleggers make a ton of money, and it's not like they sell a gazillion copies of each release. Metallica offer EVERY CONCERT of their recent tours in LOSSLESS format on their website. At the Pixies reunion tour you could buy a 2CD of that night's concert just after it was finished. There are numerous small, specialized dvd labels that sell the most exotic/weird/rare movies you can think off to a small but dedicated audience. Each release on Rhino Handmade is barely a couple of thousand copies. Etcetera. Prince fans make up the dumbest shit to excuse their great hero. The FACT is that Prince could easily make a mint by selling recordings of his concerts, and put bootleggers out of business. EVERY concert of the recent UK run was taped by multiple people, one "fan release" has already hit the internet and a major bootleg label will release a box set with all concerts too. Prince should realise that this kind of thing WILL happen, no matter how hard he stomps his tiny foot on the ground, simply because there's a DEMAND for these things. Yes, fans have a right to complain, because plenty of artists have long ago realsied that "there's money in them hill there". Radiohead's new album is a prime example of a major artist treating his fans right, whereas Prince's lawsuit vs YouTube and his demands towards fan sites are the kind of crap you expect from major labels. Trent Reznor told his fans in Australia to steal his records because his record company over there decided to put a premium price of his records because "the fans will pay the price no matter how high". Hell, he leaked several tracks from his recent album himself before the release, and then released half of the tracks as multi-tracks WAV files via The Pirate Bay so fans could make their own remixes. And please, enough of the "internet pioneer Prince" crap. Prince NEVER embraced the internet, and always had things ass backwards. The simple fact that to this day a FAM runs his online presence speaks volumes. © Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights. It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for your use. All rights reserved. | |
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djenerate said: That fact remains that it is his face & his art that is being shown in these places & I'm sure you would agree, whoever you are and however famous you are, if there is video footage out there which doesn't represent you how you would want to be (makes your music sound echoey & distant & make his show look anything but the tightly choreographed spectacle that is was) then you would use whatever legal powers you had to reclaim that stuff.
It wouldn't be on there if it was available via his own site, simple as that. djenerate said: Anyhow, instead of calling eachother out about our differing opinions, why don't we just celebrate our similarities...
Fact: We would all love to be able to access and own MORE Prince material & footage. Fact: We all feel dissapointed when there are concerts played by our favorite atrists and we cannot make it to them for whatever reason. Fact: Youtube has been a useful resource to find access to things we haven't perhaps seen, but unfortunately for some that resouce may not be available in the same way again. But for every door that closes, another one opens. Let's all shake hands and be cool. Fact: you are yet another enabler who tells people to stop offering valid criticism of Prince. Fact: If Prince had any business sense there wouldn't be this kind of whining, because people would be too busy enjoying the numerous concert recordings and deluxe editions of classic albums. © Bart Van Hemelen
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BartVanHemelen said: djenerate said: That fact remains that it is his face & his art that is being shown in these places & I'm sure you would agree, whoever you are and however famous you are, if there is video footage out there which doesn't represent you how you would want to be (makes your music sound echoey & distant & make his show look anything but the tightly choreographed spectacle that is was) then you would use whatever legal powers you had to reclaim that stuff.
It wouldn't be on there if it was available via his own site, simple as that. djenerate said: Anyhow, instead of calling eachother out about our differing opinions, why don't we just celebrate our similarities...
Fact: We would all love to be able to access and own MORE Prince material & footage. Fact: We all feel dissapointed when there are concerts played by our favorite atrists and we cannot make it to them for whatever reason. Fact: Youtube has been a useful resource to find access to things we haven't perhaps seen, but unfortunately for some that resouce may not be available in the same way again. But for every door that closes, another one opens. Let's all shake hands and be cool. Fact: you are yet another enabler who tells people to stop offering valid criticism of Prince. Fact: If Prince had any business sense there wouldn't be this kind of whining, because people would be too busy enjoying the numerous concert recordings and deluxe editions of classic albums. Whoop! There it is!! | |
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meow85 said: PatrickS77 said: Why?? Because I really wanted to see him! I don't wait for and complain that he's not playing in front of my doorstep! Not everybody has the time or money required to fly to see any show, no matter how badly we might want to. Most of us don't, more likely than not. If you did, then I'm glad you had the opportunity. I'm not looking for him to play on my doorstep. I don't even ever expect Prince to play in my city. Ever. But what's his problem he can't come out to Vancouver? That city's got both the population and the demographics to support a Prince gig.
If he's not going to make it so that people can see him play live, it wouldn't kill him to make, say, a tour DVD available for a price. I completely understand his not wanting freebies handed out. It's his work, he deserves to be paid for it, and he doesn't want us watching inferior quality vids either. What I don't understand is why he can't give us something official and well-produced and just charge for it. People who can't afford the 80 bucks plus travelling expenses for a live concert can at least afford an 18 dollar DVD. But you do go on holidays, right?? If you want to see him that bad, then combine it! If you don't want to or say you can't do that then you probably don't want to see him bad enough! Flying has never been cheaper than nowadays! And a DVD is never a substitute for a live concert! | |
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Let's also not forget kids the interview footage of Prince that was available on YouTube...thought it was fascinating stuff..., furthering his communication, providing insight, explanations, and now zilch. Just the print media and hearsay. How often does he give an interview anyway and where is the visual record?
YouTube provides good exposure. Van Halen has started a new tour, with excerpts available off YouTube from the initial shows in N. Carolina, you can judge for yourself how the band has evolved and rates after all these years...and can drop or buy your ticket accordingly rather than reading a second hand music critic's review. The amount of material that Prince could release!...Ohh the very ponderings...At Prince's level he'll always have a certain large fanbase and maintains a certain wealth, so what's the hurt on gaining more at the expense of a few dollars? Very poor decision making clearly based on power control spur of the moment feelings. | |
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PatrickS77 said: meow85 said: Not everybody has the time or money required to fly to see any show, no matter how badly we might want to. Most of us don't, more likely than not. If you did, then I'm glad you had the opportunity. I'm not looking for him to play on my doorstep. I don't even ever expect Prince to play in my city. Ever. But what's his problem he can't come out to Vancouver? That city's got both the population and the demographics to support a Prince gig.
If he's not going to make it so that people can see him play live, it wouldn't kill him to make, say, a tour DVD available for a price. I completely understand his not wanting freebies handed out. It's his work, he deserves to be paid for it, and he doesn't want us watching inferior quality vids either. What I don't understand is why he can't give us something official and well-produced and just charge for it. People who can't afford the 80 bucks plus travelling expenses for a live concert can at least afford an 18 dollar DVD. But you do go on holidays, right?? If you want to see him that bad, then combine it! If you don't want to or say you can't do that then you probably don't want to see him bad enough! Flying has never been cheaper than nowadays! And a DVD is never a substitute for a live concert! Right. I haven't been able to go because I don't want it bad enough. I haven't been able to go because I can't afford a big trip, and unlike certain people, have the sense to keep my priorities in line. I absolutely love the purple wonder, but he's not worth going hungry for a month. No one is.
I go on holidays when and if my work says I'm allowed to go. I'm a minimum-wage-peasant. My only other option is to quit the job outright and hope to God I can find something not too horrifying when I come back. Of course DVD's are no substitute for a live concert. Nothing is, really. But when a video clip is the only option available to many of us, I don't see why Prince refuses to release anything. We'll be sated because we've got our Prince fix, he'll be pleased because he'll have more moolah in his pockets and away from the bootleggers. It's a win-win. Too bad Prince apparently can't get his head around that. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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jacobpb said: Let's also not forget kids the interview footage of Prince that was available on YouTube...thought it was fascinating stuff..., furthering his communication, providing insight, explanations, and now zilch. Just the print media and hearsay. How often does he give an interview anyway and where is the visual record?
YouTube provides good exposure. Van Halen has started a new tour, with excerpts available off YouTube from the initial shows in N. Carolina, you can judge for yourself how the band has evolved and rates after all these years...and can drop or buy your ticket accordingly rather than reading a second hand music critic's review. The amount of material that Prince could release!...Ohh the very ponderings...At Prince's level he'll always have a certain large fanbase and maintains a certain wealth, so what's the hurt on gaining more at the expense of a few dollars? Very poor decision making clearly based on power control spur of the moment feelings. Correction Prince has always HAD a certain large fanbase and maintained a certain wealth! Sit back and ask yourself, why he's been working triple time so much lately? The LA shows, the Vegas shows, the London shows, the selling of Planet Earth to that UK Paper. In light of recent events and rumors or retirement/sabbatical, doesn't it seem like he's just been stock piling as much cash as he could?  | |
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BartVanHemelen said: djenerate said: That fact remains that it is his face & his art that is being shown in these places & I'm sure you would agree, whoever you are and however famous you are, if there is video footage out there which doesn't represent you how you would want to be (makes your music sound echoey & distant & make his show look anything but the tightly choreographed spectacle that is was) then you would use whatever legal powers you had to reclaim that stuff.
It wouldn't be on there if it was available via his own site, simple as that. djenerate said: Anyhow, instead of calling eachother out about our differing opinions, why don't we just celebrate our similarities...
Fact: We would all love to be able to access and own MORE Prince material & footage. Fact: We all feel dissapointed when there are concerts played by our favorite atrists and we cannot make it to them for whatever reason. Fact: Youtube has been a useful resource to find access to things we haven't perhaps seen, but unfortunately for some that resouce may not be available in the same way again. But for every door that closes, another one opens. Let's all shake hands and be cool. Fact: you are yet another enabler who tells people to stop offering valid criticism of Prince. Fact: If Prince had any business sense there wouldn't be this kind of whining, because people would be too busy enjoying the numerous concert recordings and deluxe editions of classic albums. Indeed we would ALL like to have access to the recordings from each show, & I for one would like that stuff to leak out somehow if it not going to be officially released. But at the same time, spouting so much venom on an internet forum just because people may no longer be able to get their freebee fix is just ridiculous. & If Prince has NO business sense... how did he manage to sell out 21 nights in a 22,000 seat arena on a small island with a whole bunch of afterparties that he wasn't even guaranteed to show up at?? How many of the so called fan friendly artists u mentioned could pull that off? Radiohead? I don't think so! & If Prince is so different to the bands you also mentioned who gave away their material to the fans... um hello? PLANET EARTH... that was ready for commercial release in the UK when Prince 360'd &, at the risk of losing his distribution deal, negotiated releasing 3million free copies. & what else...? Sign O The Times DVD, also free. & yes, perhaps it wasn't his very own decision to release that DVD for free but I'm sure (given that the copyright is still held by Purple Films Company) that it was authorised as such. My main point here is that all this bitterness over personal career decisions is just childish. I don't love every decision he has made but I at least have the common intelligence to understand that he is not accountable to me over his decisions. He has at least had the decency to stay clean & healthy over these years and keep his output of 1 album per year average up since 1978. Not many artists bother to do that. So I'd say stop being such spoiled brats & apreciate what we do get. & if you can't do that, get your bootleg fix like I do occasionally. But F*** YouTube. | |
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SexyBeautifulOne said: jacobpb said: Let's also not forget kids the interview footage of Prince that was available on YouTube...thought it was fascinating stuff..., furthering his communication, providing insight, explanations, and now zilch. Just the print media and hearsay. How often does he give an interview anyway and where is the visual record?
YouTube provides good exposure. Van Halen has started a new tour, with excerpts available off YouTube from the initial shows in N. Carolina, you can judge for yourself how the band has evolved and rates after all these years...and can drop or buy your ticket accordingly rather than reading a second hand music critic's review. The amount of material that Prince could release!...Ohh the very ponderings...At Prince's level he'll always have a certain large fanbase and maintains a certain wealth, so what's the hurt on gaining more at the expense of a few dollars? Very poor decision making clearly based on power control spur of the moment feelings. Correction Prince has always HAD a certain large fanbase and maintained a certain wealth! Sit back and ask yourself, why he's been working triple time so much lately? The LA shows, the Vegas shows, the London shows, the selling of Planet Earth to that UK Paper. In light of recent events and rumors or retirement/sabbatical, doesn't it seem like he's just been stock piling as much cash as he could? What's peculiar is Prince playing private shows for big money..like he did in Austin. I don't buy the retirement thing..he'll be doing music forever but the live stuff he'll surely cut back on...maybe he's saving beaucoup bucks for a new project? | |
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djenerate said: & If Prince has NO business sense... how did he manage to sell out 21 nights in a 22,000 seat arena on a small island with a whole bunch of afterparties that he wasn't even guaranteed to show up at??
So what? His entire European fan base scrambled to get tix, and plenty of fans went multiple nights. It's called an "event". But I bet plenty of fans would have been much happier with a major European tour. (But that isn't as profitable.) djenerate said: & If Prince is so different to the bands you also mentioned who gave away their material to the fans... um hello? PLANET EARTH... that was ready for commercial release in the UK when Prince 360'd &, at the risk of losing his distribution deal, negotiated releasing 3million free copies.
So what? UK only. He gave away a CD nobody was gonna buy. This is yet another blatant stunt = pathetic attempt to get some attention. What "risk"? He got paid far more than he'd ever earn, and all he had to do was hand over an album he never intended to promote (because he knows damn well it is shit) to a racist, rightwing newspaper. If his songs are his children (HIS words), isn't that selling them into slavery? (How come Prince is only upset about what happens to his music when somebody covers one of his songs?) djenerate said: & what else...? Sign O The Times DVD, also free. & yes, perhaps it wasn't his very own decision to release that DVD for free but I'm sure (given that the copyright is still held by Purple Films Company) that it was authorised as such.
Whoop-dee-doo, giving away a catalogue item that nobody was buying. Sheesh, there's free stuff like that just about every week with UK papers. djenerate said: My main point here is that all this bitterness over personal career decisions is just childish. ... So I'd say stop being such spoiled brats & apreciate what we do get.
Translation: all criticism of Prince is verboten. Please let us not upset the purple genius in case he gets pissed and stops releasing fifth-rate albums. © Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights. It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for your use. All rights reserved. | |
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