New topic
PrintableJesseDezz said: And from a purely technical standpoint, playing-wise, Prince is not a virtuoso and I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it, just as he admits there are things that the John Blackwells and the Renaldo Natos of the world can do that he can't. Check out his early '80s Rolling Stone interview where he's just as self-effacing about some aspects of his abilities. When he took the Dirty Mind tour overseas, a review stated that he was no virtuoso like Hendrix, but he brought something different to the table. A review of the LoveSexy tour in Guitar for the Practicing Musician states: "For while Prince is often lauded as a musical genius, given that he established his reputation on the basis of a broad instrumental facility, such an assumption is simply untrue. He is not, nor would he openly profess to be, a technically gifted instrumentalist. His guitar playiing wouldn't make first cut in a garage band, and his comparatively better piano technique smacks of musical greeting cards. What Prince does is to assemble the vast ramblings of his imagination, much as Picasso, Joan Miro and Salvador Dali did. It is not the integrity of the structure that is so important, as opposed to the accomplishment itself. It could be called nerve, and it could be called raw musicality, but Prince is undeniably creative. Mind if I come in on this one? I'm not a guitarist, but it's true that I could already pick his piano ramblings out as a teenager - not too tough. Technical proficiency is one thing (a BIG thing, of course), but I guess I agree with you when you write of "vast ramblings" - as an idea person, he's amazing. Playing what he plays the way he plays it (or better) is one thing, coming up with the original idea in the first place is quite another... know what I'm saying? The end product is always inspiring - to me, anyway. Maybe what people need to do, instead of oohing and aahing over Prince so much, though... is to get out there and learn some instruments!  | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
JesseDezz said: MuthaFunka said: Arrogance is usually the quickest downfall to any debator who employs it as their means to argue. You and Jesse are cut from that same mold of "I'm a musican and I know everythng there is to know about music" and you appear to be taking that same fall as he did What fall did I take? I simply got tired of your delusional ass. You're so pathetic that you've spent all this time on the same thread. You've got a serious problem  That's funny, you say I'm spending all my time on this thread yet here YOU are still coming back to this thread and then following every single post of mine (even clicking my profile to try and "check me out" - creepy) in this very thread. So, here's the question: What's more pathetic than someone who spends their time on the same thread? ANSWER: The person that obsesses over the person that spends all their time on the same thread. Kinda sad, ain't it? But hey, enjoy! nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
MuthaFunka - Black...by popular demand | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
MuthaFunka said: Just some examples of "genius" in terms of "musical genius:
Artistic genius may show itself in early childhood as a prodigy or later in life; either way, geniuses eventually differentiate themselves from the others through great originality. It is thought intellectual geniuses have crisp, clear-eyed visions of given situations, in which interpretation is unnecessary, and they build or act on the basis of those facts, usually with tremendous energy. Accomplished geniuses in intellectual fields start out in many cases as child prodigies, gifted with superior memory or understanding.
(Taken from Wikipedia) Prince was a musical prodigy in his youth, along with Patrice Rushen, when they were both signed to WB in their teens. His genius was evident then when they gave a 17-year-old COMPLETE AUTONOMY on his first record, and the rest is STILL making history. (Encarta) 1, 2, 3, and 7 embodies Prince. Here's another: Usage: Genius implies high and peculiar gifts of nature, impelling the mind to certain favorite kinds of mental effort, and producing new combinations of ideas, imagery, etc. Talent supposes general strength of intellect, with a peculiar aptitude for being molded and directed to specific employments and valuable ends and purposes. Genius is connected more or less with the exercise of imagination, and reaches its ends by a kind of intuitive power. Talent depends more on high mental training, and a perfect command of all the faculties, memory, judgment, sagacity, etc. Hence we speak of a genius for poetry, painting. etc., and a talent for business or diplomacy.
Again, P embodies all of that. Musical Geniuses do exist. Prince is one of them. Simple as that. i won't attack the credibility of your sources but i will say this I including alot of musicians have done what is mentioned in there... so by those standards im a musical Genius, Frank Axtel is a musical Genius Beau Hall is a musical genius... your dealing in vagueries, i hope thats not all you have to offer? c'mon now i want specifics... What were the major contributions that have made Prince a Genius? I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
i think P's genius is cerebral more than musical, perse.
his proof is in his pudding, and i believe time will be kinder to him than most of his "peers." i care not to get into any debate as above.  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
MuthaFunka said: Usage: Genius implies high and peculiar gifts of nature, impelling the mind to certain favorite kinds of mental effort, and producing new combinations of ideas, imagery, etc. Talent supposes general strength of intellect, with a peculiar aptitude for being molded and directed to specific employments and valuable ends and purposes. Genius is connected more or less with the exercise of imagination, and reaches its ends by a kind of intuitive power. Talent depends more on high mental training, and a perfect command of all the faculties, memory, judgment, sagacity, etc. Hence we speak of a genius for poetry, painting. etc., and a talent for business or diplomacy.
Again, P embodies all of that. Musical Geniuses do exist. Prince is one of them. Simple as that. With Prince, I'd say it's not any one thing, but the big picture that makes him so amazing... Was watching a performance clip last night, and realized that he is more or less now what Elvis used to be... that is to say, even at his worst, as a performer, he has a unique aura that attracts a certain level of fanaticism. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EmbattledWarrior said: MuthaFunka said: Just some examples of "genius" in terms of "musical genius:
Again, P embodies all of that. Musical Geniuses do exist. Prince is one of them. Simple as that. i won't attack the credibility of your sources but i will say this I including alot of musicians have done what is mentioned in there... so by those standards im a musical Genius, Frank Axtel is a musical Genius Beau Hall is a musical genius... your dealing in vagueries, i hope thats not all you have to offer? c'mon now i want specifics... What were the major contributions that have made Prince a Genius?  Vagueries? How is what I posted "vague" in ANY way? It describes what genius is, and it goes into the artistic/musical genius. There's no ambiguity there, it's cut and dry. It is what it is.
And again, you're ONLY going by YOUR definition of what "musical genius" is and you just said there is no such thing as a musical genius, so if I did (and I did in one of my earlier posts) list his contributions, you wouldn't agree anyway.  nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
MuthaFunka - Black...by popular demand | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Heiress said: Mind if I come in on this one? I'm not a guitarist, but it's true that I could already pick his piano ramblings out as a teenager - not too tough. Technical proficiency is one thing (a BIG thing, of course), but I guess I agree with you when you write of "vast ramblings" - as an idea person, he's amazing. Playing what he plays the way he plays it (or better) is one thing, coming up with the original idea in the first place is quite another... know what I'm saying? The end product is always inspiring - to me, anyway. Maybe what people need to do, instead of oohing and aahing over Prince so much, though... is to get out there and learn some instruments! Well, it's kinda hard to do it when their mouths are stuck to his balls... My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
MuthaFunka said: JesseDezz said: What fall did I take? I simply got tired of your delusional ass. You're so pathetic that you've spent all this time on the same thread. You've got a serious problem That's funny, you say I'm spending all my time on this thread yet here YOU are still coming back to this thread and then following every single post of mine (even clicking my profile to try and "check me out" - creepy) in this very thread. So, here's the question: What's more pathetic than someone who spends their time on the same thread? ANSWER: The person that obsesses over the person that spends all their time on the same thread. Kinda sad, ain't it? But hey, enjoy! If you didn't know this dufus, threads that a person posts on are lit up when there's another post. I was hoping to find some intelligent posters, unlike yourself. And I just HAD to check your profile to see if you were young and dumb or just dumb. I think it's the latter. The fact that I come back to the org HOURS later and you're still going on and on is frightening...If this is your only outlet, you really need to get a life. And a clue about music. JesseDezz has spoken  My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
JesseDezz said: Heiress said: Mind if I come in on this one? I'm not a guitarist, but it's true that I could already pick his piano ramblings out as a teenager - not too tough. Technical proficiency is one thing (a BIG thing, of course), but I guess I agree with you when you write of "vast ramblings" - as an idea person, he's amazing. Playing what he plays the way he plays it (or better) is one thing, coming up with the original idea in the first place is quite another... know what I'm saying? The end product is always inspiring - to me, anyway. Maybe what people need to do, instead of oohing and aahing over Prince so much, though... is to get out there and learn some instruments! Well, it's kinda hard to do it when their mouths are stuck to his balls... Ya think Prince likes that sort of thing? I think he'd be much happier knowing he'd inspired a bunch of kids to become virtuosos (even if, as you say, he is not one himself... when I think "virtuoso," I think Heifetz, ya know?) | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
JesseDezz said: MuthaFunka said: That's funny, you say I'm spending all my time on this thread yet here YOU are still coming back to this thread and then following every single post of mine (even clicking my profile to try and "check me out" - creepy) in this very thread. So, here's the question: What's more pathetic than someone who spends their time on the same thread? ANSWER: The person that obsesses over the person that spends all their time on the same thread. Kinda sad, ain't it? But hey, enjoy! If you didn't know this dufus, threads that a person posts on are lit up when there's another post. I was hoping to find some intelligent posters, unlike yourself. And I just HAD to check your profile to see if you were young and dumb or just dumb. I think it's the latter. The fact that I come back to the org HOURS later and you're still going on and on is frightening...If this is your only outlet, you really need to get a life. And a clue about music. JesseDezz has spoken And there he cracks, folks! Thanks for playing, son.  nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
MuthaFunka - Black...by popular demand | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Heiress said: JesseDezz said: And from a purely technical standpoint, playing-wise, Prince is not a virtuoso and I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it, just as he admits there are things that the John Blackwells and the Renaldo Natos of the world can do that he can't. Check out his early '80s Rolling Stone interview where he's just as self-effacing about some aspects of his abilities. When he took the Dirty Mind tour overseas, a review stated that he was no virtuoso like Hendrix, but he brought something different to the table. A review of the LoveSexy tour in Guitar for the Practicing Musician states: "For while Prince is often lauded as a musical genius, given that he established his reputation on the basis of a broad instrumental facility, such an assumption is simply untrue. He is not, nor would he openly profess to be, a technically gifted instrumentalist. His guitar playiing wouldn't make first cut in a garage band, and his comparatively better piano technique smacks of musical greeting cards. What Prince does is to assemble the vast ramblings of his imagination, much as Picasso, Joan Miro and Salvador Dali did. It is not the integrity of the structure that is so important, as opposed to the accomplishment itself. It could be called nerve, and it could be called raw musicality, but Prince is undeniably creative. Mind if I come in on this one? I'm not a guitarist, but it's true that I could already pick his piano ramblings out as a teenager - not too tough. Technical proficiency is one thing (a BIG thing, of course), but I guess I agree with you when you write of "vast ramblings" - as an idea person, he's amazing. Playing what he plays the way he plays it (or better) is one thing, coming up with the original idea in the first place is quite another... know what I'm saying? The end product is always inspiring - to me, anyway. Maybe what people need to do, instead of oohing and aahing over Prince so much, though... is to get out there and learn some instruments! Exactly as much as i like Prince i can't think of any reason why he would be considered a musical genius. We're dealing in semantics here... Their is no real definition of a musiical genius, therefore in reality it doesn't exist... The same can be said for scientist. Einstein was never a genius, he just saw a different way... and that seeing led to major contributions into the world of Quantum Physics... Same way with musicians... We see a different way... a world of chords, harmonies and melodies.... its gotten so bad with me, that sometimes i dream about it. But its with all musicians, It's trivial to say which ones are geniuses and which ones are not... cause we can nit pick forever... But the opinion of fans, in reference to whats good... is worthless... Because the vast majority of fans are simple stupid, followers... and they complain whenever a band or artist strays from their normal formula Fans are the reasons musicians have a hard time growing... Fans and untaleted people create societal stigmas of genius. Because they can't do it... Genius is a word born from someones ego. When we start labeling people geniuses we are destroying the creative process in itself... Cause Genius and creativity don't belong in the same world I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I think so, too, especially when I'm reading the comments about the MTV awards disaster...We need more young musicians. My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Heiress said: JesseDezz said: Well, it's kinda hard to do it when their mouths are stuck to his balls... Ya think Prince likes that sort of thing? I think he'd be much happier knowing he'd inspired a bunch of kids to become virtuosos (even if, as you say, he is not one himself... when I think "virtuoso," I think Heifetz, ya know?) Our esteemed colleague doesn't quite know what virtuoso means. Read back and see. But he can tell you if you misspelled it. nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
MuthaFunka - Black...by popular demand | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
MuthaFunka said: JesseDezz said: If you didn't know this dufus, threads that a person posts on are lit up when there's another post. I was hoping to find some intelligent posters, unlike yourself. And I just HAD to check your profile to see if you were young and dumb or just dumb. I think it's the latter. The fact that I come back to the org HOURS later and you're still going on and on is frightening...If this is your only outlet, you really need to get a life. And a clue about music. JesseDezz has spoken And there he cracks, folks! Thanks for playing, son. Whatever that means...uh, okay My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
MuthaFunka said: Heiress said: Ya think Prince likes that sort of thing? I think he'd be much happier knowing he'd inspired a bunch of kids to become virtuosos (even if, as you say, he is not one himself... when I think "virtuoso," I think Heifetz, ya know?) Our esteemed colleague doesn't quite know what virtuoso means. Read back and see. But he can tell you if you misspelled it. That's all you took from my posts. That just shows how ignorant you are. Sad really. Sad. And I think you don't know what the word virtuoso means. But hey, it's a musician thing. Something you have no clue about... Suck on, Prince d**ksucker, suck on... My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
MuthaFunka said: EmbattledWarrior said: i won't attack the credibility of your sources but i will say this I including alot of musicians have done what is mentioned in there... so by those standards im a musical Genius, Frank Axtel is a musical Genius Beau Hall is a musical genius... your dealing in vagueries, i hope thats not all you have to offer? c'mon now i want specifics... What were the major contributions that have made Prince a Genius? Vagueries? How is what I posted "vague" in ANY way? It describes what genius is, and it goes into the artistic/musical genius. There's no ambiguity there, it's cut and dry. It is what it is.
And again, you're ONLY going by YOUR definition of what "musical genius" is and you just said there is no such thing as a musical genius, so if I did (and I did in one of my earlier posts) list his contributions, you wouldn't agree anyway. no i am going by your definition of genius i have none, cause i don't believe in it... there is no set definition for a musical genius, other than vague ones which could apply to any musician... and ims till waiting for the specifics... I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EmbattledWarrior said: there is no set definition for a musical genius, other than vague ones which could apply to any musician... and ims till waiting for the specifics... That's 'cause he has none. He hasn't posted a relevant post yet. My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
JesseDezz said: MuthaFunka said: Our esteemed colleague doesn't quite know what virtuoso means. Read back and see. But he can tell you if you misspelled it. That's all you took from my posts. That just shows how ignorant you are. Sad really. Sad. And I think you don't know what the word virtuoso means. But hey, it's a musician thing. Something you have no clue about... Suck on, Prince d**ksucker, suck on... Dayum! Someobody woke up on the wrong side of his Fender today.
Calm down, son. You're making a fool of yourself now, allowing this message board debate to piss you off to the point of using 4th grade insults (at least you've graduated from 3rd grade smack though). If you can't handle a debate then don't get in one. It's simple as that. You're not equipped to handle debates such as these. So, I'm officially done with you and this thread because you seem to just want to talk shit because you're out of ammo on this one. Case closed. Relax, it's not that deep. nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
MuthaFunka - Black...by popular demand | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EmbattledWarrior said: MuthaFunka said: Vagueries? How is what I posted "vague" in ANY way? It describes what genius is, and it goes into the artistic/musical genius. There's no ambiguity there, it's cut and dry. It is what it is.
And again, you're ONLY going by YOUR definition of what "musical genius" is and you just said there is no such thing as a musical genius, so if I did (and I did in one of my earlier posts) list his contributions, you wouldn't agree anyway. no i am going by your definition of genius i have none, cause i don't believe in it... there is no set definition for a musical genius, other than vague ones which could apply to any musician... and ims till waiting for the specifics... Um, isn't that exacty what I said in bold?
Read it again. Out. nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
MuthaFunka - Black...by popular demand | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
James and Sly were getting fonky when prince was in junior high school.
Jimi was taking the electric guitar into new uncharted territories at the same time... Stevie and Marvin & Curtis were bringing social consciousness to soul music at the same time... & Dylan and the Beetles turned pop songwriting into high art at the same time. If I was a peer to these artists..and I saw them first hand..I guess I wouldnt be blown away with Princes originality myself.. But.. Compared to all that came after him..and during his peak years.. PRINCE IS A MEGA GENIUS ! | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
MuthaFunka said: EmbattledWarrior said: no i am going by your definition of genius i have none, cause i don't believe in it... there is no set definition for a musical genius, other than vague ones which could apply to any musician... and ims till waiting for the specifics... Um, isn't that exacty what I said in bold?
Read it again. Out. dude im asking for one thing Forget Jesse, and everything else... What are the specifs that make prince a genius, seperating him from every musician dead and alive... it's simple just say you have none and we can lock this thread up I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
MuthaFunka said: Dayum! Someobody woke up on the wrong side of his Fender today.
Calm down, son. You're making a fool of yourself now, allowing this message board debate to piss you off to the point of using 4th grade insults (at least you've graduated from 3rd grade smack though). If you can't handle a debate then don't get in one. It's simple as that. You're not equipped to handle debates such as these. So, I'm officially done with you and this thread because you seem to just want to talk shit because you're out of ammo on this one. Case closed. Relax, it's not that deep. That's just a cop-out 'cause you've been exposed as a know-nothing. You STILL haven't, after all this time, posted anything relevant or knowledgeable about any aspect of music to support your ramblings. All this posting and you haven't contributed anything worthwhile... My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Nothing is created or destroyed so it's all about the energy flow. Prince is a conductor | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
I guess that says it all  My author page: https://www.amazon.com/au...eretttruth | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
excessex said: Nothing is created or destroyed so it's all about the energy flow. Prince is a conductor
cool analogy. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
From wikipedia:
"The classic skill of the musical genius is the capability of holding many different melodies in one's head at once and knowing how they interact together. It is said that the great classical composers (Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, etc.) could hold five, six or even seven different melodies in their minds at once. They could write complicated music with many different parts all at once without having to hear it played. In comparison, the average person can only hold one melody in memory. Mozart, who apparently completed his musical compositions in his head and simply wrote them down when he was done, is supposed to have often said while drinking and conversing with friends, "I write music as a sow pisses." Word. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
JesseDezz said: I guess that says it all
Fans... can't live with em, can't live without them... I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
EmbattledWarrior said: Fine, but let a musician say it... The only credible person to judge or criticize the merits is A. a doctor of music and B. a Musician So yeah. maceo parker and eric Clapton think Prince is a genius. So now we can all shut up, right ? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
excessex said: From wikipedia:
"The classic skill of the musical genius is the capability of holding many different melodies in one's head at once and knowing how they interact together. It is said that the great classical composers (Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, etc.) could hold five, six or even seven different melodies in their minds at once. They could write complicated music with many different parts all at once without having to hear it played. In comparison, the average person can only hold one melody in memory. Mozart, who apparently completed his musical compositions in his head and simply wrote them down when he was done, is supposed to have often said while drinking and conversing with friends, "I write music as a sow pisses." Word. Have some of you seen Prince playing both the guitar and the keyboards at the same time playing some serious shit ? Well, I have. MIND BLOWING. he does it naturally like if it was as simple as breathing. GENIUS AT WORK. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |