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PrintableImago said: onenitealone said: And what the hell has Joni MITCHELL done???? Eh?
I'm kidding, I'm kidding.  Does she mention his 'puffin eyes' in the same article??  
I remember Miles Davis (I think) said that Prince wasn't an innovator--but a hybrid. But of course, that could be argued. A hybrid of what, dearest?? 
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MuthaFunka said: I don't think YOU quite know what an originator is. Ok so name the artist(s) that performed in bikini underwear, especially as a black R&B artist. Then name the artist(s) that talked openly about incest, and don't give me some "veiled" or "innuendo" examples either. P was original in his concept of who HE was and wanted to show the audience. Again, who came up with the Minneapolis Sound? Stevie? Ok, seems that you don't know what is an originator. An originator is someone that creates or sets a standard, a norm for other artists. Somoene that paved the way to do things (music, performances, singing, playing instruments, etc...) Jimi Hendrix IS an orginator because he set the standard for guitarist. James Brown set the standard for all the entertainers. Prince from this point of you has done nothing like that. And your examples show that you are confusing being an originator and creating something distinctive. P has never set any standard or norm in the music industry. Minneapolis sound is just his own distinctive sound, like Stevie created his own sound, Jimi hendrix created his own sound, Rick James created his own sound etc... Everything Prince has done in his career has already been done BEFORE. MuthaFunka said: EVERY artist has borrowed from others but to say that P borrowed more than any other artist is just plain ignorant and being a hater. But I see who your avatar is and maybe that's why you have a slanted view of P. Everybody is influenced by others artists. But I have never seen another artist borrowing more than P. When P dances, he dances (or tries to dance) like James Brown When he plays piano, he plays (or tries to play) like Little Richard When he plays guitar, he plays (or tries to dance) like Jimi etc... And I don't even talk about his clothing style/ hair style. Prince reminds you often someone else. And some of his performances look like STRAIGHT IMPERSONATIONS. I've never seen ONE SINGLE ARTIST impersonating so many different artist like that. And it has nothing to do with being a hater, it's just telling the truth. | |
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onenitealone said: Imago said:
I remember Miles Davis (I think) said that Prince wasn't an innovator--but a hybrid. But of course, that could be argued. A hybrid of what, dearest??
dude. take me. | |
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krayzie said: MuthaFunka said: I don't think YOU quite know what an originator is. Ok so name the artist(s) that performed in bikini underwear, especially as a black R&B artist. Then name the artist(s) that talked openly about incest, and don't give me some "veiled" or "innuendo" examples either. P was original in his concept of who HE was and wanted to show the audience. Again, who came up with the Minneapolis Sound? Stevie? Ok, seems that you don't know what is an originator. An originator is someone that creates or sets a standard, a norm for other artists. Somoene that paved the way to do things (music, performances, singing, playing instruments, etc...) Jimi Hendrix IS an orginator because he set the standard for guitarist. James Brown set the standard for all the entertainers. Prince from this point of you has done nothing like that. And your examples show that you are confusing being an originator and creating something distinctive. P has never set any standard or norm in the music industry. Minneapolis sound is just his own distinctive sound, like Stevie created his own sound, Jimi hendrix created his own sound, Rick James created his own sound etc... Everything Prince has done in his career has already been done BEFORE. MuthaFunka said: EVERY artist has borrowed from others but to say that P borrowed more than any other artist is just plain ignorant and being a hater. But I see who your avatar is and maybe that's why you have a slanted view of P. Everybody is influenced by others artists. But I have never seen another artist borrowing more than P. When P dances, he dances (or tries to dance) like James Brown When he plays piano, he plays (or tries to play) like Little Richard When he plays guitar, he plays (or tries to dance) like Jimi etc... And I don't even talk about his clothing style/ hair style. Prince reminds you often someone else. And some of his performances look like STRAIGHT IMPERSONATIONS. I've never seen ONE SINGLE ARTIST impersonating so many different artist like that. And it has nothing to do with being a hater, it's just telling the truth. dont forget esquerita was the original and lil richard copied his style, so not everyone is THAT of an originator. just to share this sly stone performance where for some reason i remember prince in computer blue in that purple rain tour video concert! (his look) and to dirty mind video... i dont think Prince tried dancing like james brown. he does some moves like everyone else but that doesnt mean its all james brown. IMHO Prince created a style when it comes to dancing. Just watch KISS video and try to see james or even watch "mountains" video recording, or "question of u" nude tour video...not even a little like james. James Brown got moves from the Nicholas brothers too. prince style is more elegant. in 79 i wanna be yor lover tv performance he was a mick jagger impersonator. his dancing had nothing to do with james either, he has some jimi hendrix style and moves but if he grew up with that its imposible not to have some moves when hes doing a solo. Even some of his faces. http://youtube.com/watch?v=qJRNtBqHCyc [Edited 9/2/07 13:05pm] [Edited 9/2/07 13:11pm] [Edited 9/2/07 13:13pm] [Edited 9/2/07 13:14pm] | |
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krayzie said: MuthaFunka said: I don't think YOU quite know what an originator is. Ok so name the artist(s) that performed in bikini underwear, especially as a black R&B artist. Then name the artist(s) that talked openly about incest, and don't give me some "veiled" or "innuendo" examples either. P was original in his concept of who HE was and wanted to show the audience. Again, who came up with the Minneapolis Sound? Stevie? Ok, seems that you don't know what is an originator. An originator is someone that creates or sets a standard, a norm for other artists. Somoene that paved the way to do things (music, performances, singing, playing instruments, etc...) Jimi Hendrix IS an orginator because he set the standard for guitarist. James Brown set the standard for all the entertainers. Prince from this point of you has done nothing like that. And your examples show that you are confusing being an originator and creating something distinctive. P has never set any standard or norm in the music industry. Minneapolis sound is just his own distinctive sound, like Stevie created his own sound, Jimi hendrix created his own sound, Rick James created his own sound etc... Everything Prince has done in his career has already been done BEFORE. MuthaFunka said: EVERY artist has borrowed from others but to say that P borrowed more than any other artist is just plain ignorant and being a hater. But I see who your avatar is and maybe that's why you have a slanted view of P. Everybody is influenced by others artists. But I have never seen another artist borrowing more than P. When P dances, he dances (or tries to dance) like James Brown When he plays piano, he plays (or tries to play) like Little Richard When he plays guitar, he plays (or tries to dance) like Jimi etc... And I don't even talk about his clothing style/ hair style. Prince reminds you often someone else. And some of his performances look like STRAIGHT IMPERSONATIONS. I've never seen ONE SINGLE ARTIST impersonating so many different artist like that. And it has nothing to do with being a hater, it's just telling the truth. His OWN disctinctive sound. Exactly. So PRINCE ORIGINATED that sound. So you were in fact wrong but just too prideful to admit it. Thanks for playing. We're done here now.  nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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Imago said: onenitealone said: And what the hell has Joni MITCHELL done???? Eh?
I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Does she mention his 'puffin eyes' in the same article??
I remember Miles Davis (I think) said that Prince wasn't an innovator--but a hybrid. But of course, that could be argued. Still, Miles was one of P's biggest supporters. He really believed in his talent. Anyone that knows a bit about Miles knows that he didn't give out compliments easily when it comes to musicians. | |
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dealodelandron said: Imago said:
I remember Miles Davis (I think) said that Prince wasn't an innovator--but a hybrid. But of course, that could be argued. Still, Miles was one of P's biggest supporters. He really believed in his talent. Anyone that knows a bit about Miles knows that he didn't give out compliments easily when it comes to musicians. miles on his autibio says prince music is new and it origins in 89. i never understood that part. | |
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Well Joni has OBVIOUSLY changed her mind since then because I do believe that was her saying he's "the most amazing performer I've ever witnessed" on the intro to the 2006 UK Hall of Fame Awards (I believe). He included footage of this clip before the Las Vegas shows and I think he shows it before the London shows too. Okay, she's not calling him a "genius" but I know what she REALLY meant.  Hey anybody can change their minds 20 years later. | |
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Eric Clapton took great pains in a 19985 Rolling Stone interview to point out that Prince was doing new and exciting things in rock and roll.
But whatever. All I care about is that I like Prince's music and performances. | |
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krayzie said: MuthaFunka said: Yeah, because the Minneapolis Sound wasn't original nor created by Prince and of course everyone was performing in bikini drawers and openly talking about overtly sexual acys like head and then singing openly about incest, oh and all 19-year-old newbies had complete autonomy on their 1st album. Yeah, poor Prince - he didn't originate shit.  Do you know what is an originator ? Perfoming in bikini or singing openly about incest is not originating... And P has borrowed a lot from other artists, probabaly more than any body else... [Edited 9/1/07 19:26pm] Yeah and when you have a minimum of culture, you know that the same artists you talk about have borrowed from others before. | |
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krayzie said: MuthaFunka said: I don't think YOU quite know what an originator is. Ok so name the artist(s) that performed in bikini underwear, especially as a black R&B artist. Then name the artist(s) that talked openly about incest, and don't give me some "veiled" or "innuendo" examples either. P was original in his concept of who HE was and wanted to show the audience. Again, who came up with the Minneapolis Sound? Stevie? Ok, seems that you don't know what is an originator. An originator is someone that creates or sets a standard, a norm for other artists. Somoene that paved the way to do things (music, performances, singing, playing instruments, etc...) Jimi Hendrix IS an orginator because he set the standard for guitarist. James Brown set the standard for all the entertainers. Prince from this point of you has done nothing like that. And your examples show that you are confusing being an originator and creating something distinctive. P has never set any standard or norm in the music industry. Minneapolis sound is just his own distinctive sound, like Stevie created his own sound, Jimi hendrix created his own sound, Rick James created his own sound etc... Everything Prince has done in his career has already been done BEFORE. MuthaFunka said: EVERY artist has borrowed from others but to say that P borrowed more than any other artist is just plain ignorant and being a hater. But I see who your avatar is and maybe that's why you have a slanted view of P. Everybody is influenced by others artists. But I have never seen another artist borrowing more than P. When P dances, he dances (or tries to dance) like James Brown When he plays piano, he plays (or tries to play) like Little Richard When he plays guitar, he plays (or tries to dance) like Jimi etc... And I don't even talk about his clothing style/ hair style. Prince reminds you often someone else. And some of his performances look like STRAIGHT IMPERSONATIONS. I've never seen ONE SINGLE ARTIST impersonating so many different artist like that. And it has nothing to do with being a hater, it's just telling the truth. Well i've rarely read so much bullshit at a time in the same thread. 1. Hendrix did not set a standard for ALL fucking guitar players. he createde a style and he was bloody fantastic. Do not reduce guitar playing to Hendrix. It is just plain ignorant. 2. All the major artists you mention have themselve sbeen highly influenced by other artists. It's not because you know shit about them that you've got to call these artists originators. They 're like all human beings. They're influenced by others and they used these influences to create their own stuff and make it unique. i.e JB ripped Duke Ellington's arrangements big time both live and on records. But that's just fine. He did his own thing with it. 3. You're proving the depth of Prince skills by saying that you see through many other great artists. That's the best complient you can make to a musician ! | |
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IwonderMe said: Here are more interesting quotes from an interview Morrissey made her in 1996:
"Like the first time I met Prince, you know, I put together two very unruly sentences in the course of the night and he corrected me. He said "a poet like you." I said, oh, God, like I have to -- I think I said I'm tireder -- he said are you tired or are you hungry? I think I said I'm tireder than I am hungry. It was some grammatical error. That still sounds right to me. But Prince corrected me, you know, like, and I said, "Oh, God, do I have to play the poet?" Here´s the link http://jonimitchell.com/l...cfm?id=678 This from the guy who has massacred the written English language with '2'  and numerous other  inducing substitutions, misspelled words, and invented terms.
Prince is very well-spoken, don't get me wrong; but I've heard him leave a participle dangling and split an infinitive in interviews before...  | |
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DevotedPuppy said: IwonderMe said: Here are more interesting quotes from an interview Morrissey made her in 1996:
"Like the first time I met Prince, you know, I put together two very unruly sentences in the course of the night and he corrected me. He said "a poet like you." I said, oh, God, like I have to -- I think I said I'm tireder -- he said are you tired or are you hungry? I think I said I'm tireder than I am hungry. It was some grammatical error. That still sounds right to me. But Prince corrected me, you know, like, and I said, "Oh, God, do I have to play the poet?" Here´s the link http://jonimitchell.com/l...cfm?id=678 This from the guy who has massacred the written English language with '2' and numerous other inducing substitutions, misspelled words, and invented terms.
Prince is very well-spoken, don't get me wrong; but I've heard him leave a participle dangling and split an infinitive in interviews before... Yeah, but "tireder"? C'mon, that's just downright dumb to even say. It even SOUNDS dumb when you say it. And P just got creative with the language and spiced it up, that's how I see it. nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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MuthaFunka said: DevotedPuppy said: This from the guy who has massacred the written English language with '2' and numerous other inducing substitutions, misspelled words, and invented terms.
Prince is very well-spoken, don't get me wrong; but I've heard him leave a participle dangling and split an infinitive in interviews before... Yeah, but "tireder"? C'mon, that's just downright dumb to even say. It even SOUNDS dumb when you say it. And P just got creative with the language and spiced it up, that's how I see it. I was being facetious, but what--if Prince does it, it's 'creative', but anyone else is 'dumb'? (You split an infinitive, too, btw.  ) | |
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Joni Mitchell - brilliant musician, but she can be a miserable old git  | |
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DevotedPuppy said: MuthaFunka said: Yeah, but "tireder"? C'mon, that's just downright dumb to even say. It even SOUNDS dumb when you say it. And P just got creative with the language and spiced it up, that's how I see it. I was being facetious, but what--if Prince does it, it's 'creative', but anyone else is 'dumb'? (You split an infinitive, too, btw. ) Who said it's dumb when anyone else does it? I have tons of yearbooks with "2Good 2B 4gotten" in them and I think it's creative!  . (And you can split deez nutz! )nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
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krayzie said: IwonderMe said: She said it back in 1988:
"In the 80s there was a lot of good dance music but even Prince, although he's great, he's not an originator like Sly was, so even the greats of this generation aren't in the truly genius status." Here´s the link http://jonimitchell.com/l...fm?id=1639 She said even the greats of this generation aren't in the truly genius status. To her genius means being an originator in the first place. I think Prince is definitely a genius, NOT a originator. [Edited 9/1/07 8:01am] Great point. But I do believe that P's skill in synthesizing and meshing a wide variety of sounds/styles creates an original music form that has been powerfully influential over the last 30 years. Prince's music is at once uniquely his own quirky style and at the same time his musical ideas are followed by others. Prince is so complicated, impatient and challenging that we sometimes forget his influence - "hey, that Timbaland song sounds just like 82 era Prince". Prince has a genius "ear" and musical encylopedic mind. Prince is more musically complicated on so many levels (songwriting, musicianship, performer) that I dare anyone to compare him to any of his contemporaries or most past performers. | |
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MuthaFunka said: krayzie said: Everybody is influenced by others artists. But I have never seen another artist borrowing more than P. When P dances, he dances (or tries to dance) like James Brown When he plays piano, he plays (or tries to play) like Little Richard When he plays guitar, he plays (or tries to dance) like Jimi etc... And I don't even talk about his clothing style/ hair style. Prince reminds you often someone else. And some of his performances look like STRAIGHT IMPERSONATIONS. I've never seen ONE SINGLE ARTIST impersonating so many different artist like that. And it has nothing to do with being a hater, it's just telling the truth. His OWN disctinctive sound. Exactly. So PRINCE ORIGINATED that sound. So you were in fact wrong but just too prideful to admit it. Thanks for playing. We're done here now.
OK, seems like you didn't understand. I repeat again : An originator is someone that creates something that becomes a standard, a norm for other artists. It can be music, performing, singing, playing instruments, etc... Creating your own distinctive sound doesn't make you a true originator unless it becomes a STANDARD, A NORM borrowed by many other artists. P only did what almost all the great musicians have done before him. Rick James created his own distinctive sound, Stevie created his distinctive sound, Isaac Hayes created his distinctive sound, etc... | |
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krayzie said: MuthaFunka said: His OWN disctinctive sound. Exactly. So PRINCE ORIGINATED that sound. So you were in fact wrong but just too prideful to admit it. Thanks for playing. We're done here now.
OK, seems like you didn't understand. I repeat again : An originator is someone that creates something that becomes [b]a standard, a norm for other artists.[/b] It can be music, performing, singing, playing instruments, etc... Creating your own distinctive sound doesn't make you a true originator unless it becomes a STANDARD, A NORM borrowed by many other artists. P only did what almost all the great musicians have done before him. Rick James created his own distinctive sound, Stevie created his distinctive sound, Isaac Hayes created his distinctive sound, etc... Get outta here with that bullshit definition you just came up with solely to save face! [Edited 9/5/07 6:51am] nWo: bboy87 - Timmy84 - LittleBlueCorvette - MuthaFunka - phunkdaddy - Christopher
MuthaFunka - Black...by popular demand | |
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I can't believe all of the non-believers who are saying that Prince didn't create his own sound, or that the Minneapolis sound had been done before he came on the scene. This is nonsense.
When I first heard the song "For You" in 1978, I was convinced that Prince is the greatest prodigy since Mozart. Period. On top of that, look at his catalogue as well as the groups/artists he started and produced. The man is a living musical revolution. All of the non-believers can get on DEEZ NUTZZZZZ!!!!! It's A Real Mother For Ya
Johnny Guitar Watson | |
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I'd do her.
Or at least, I'd pave her parking lot. | |
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krayzie said:[quote] MuthaFunka said: Creating your own distinctive sound doesn't make you a true originator unless it becomes a STANDARD, A NORM borrowed by many other artists. hahaha. yeah right, Most of the black new artists we've heard for the last ten years are all stealing from prince. Thanks for making our point. | |
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IwonderMe said: She said it back in 1988:
"In the 80s there was a lot of good dance music but even Prince, although he's great, he's not an originator like Sly was, so even the greats of this generation aren't in the truly genius status." Here´s the link http://jonimitchell.com/l...fm?id=1639  | |
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sarkozyiszeman said:[quote] krayzie said: MuthaFunka said: Creating your own distinctive sound doesn't make you a true originator unless it becomes a STANDARD, A NORM borrowed by many other artists. hahaha. yeah right, Most of the black new artists we've heard for the last ten years are all stealing from prince. Thanks for making our point. Tell me what standard and norm Prince has established behind him that didn't exist before ???? I really wanna know... | |
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krayzie said: sarkozyiszeman said: hahaha. yeah right, Most of the black new artists we've heard for the last ten years are all stealing from prince. Thanks for making our point. Tell me what standard and norm Prince has established behind him that didn't exist before ???? I really wanna know... are u kidding? havent u seen the assless pants? | |
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That original piece came from 1988 when Joni Mitchell possibly didnt know Prince that well...
I believe that after watching the induction speech/video for the Uk music hall of fame in 2007 that her opinions have been revised. She says: Prince is the GREATEST PERFORMER she has ever witnessed, he hosts the best parties in L.A. and possibly the world...that she wished that she was in London with him when he was honoured...etc. From this statement she shows that she is now in fact a friend of his ( I wish I was there with u), respects him as an artist(the greatest performer she has ever witnessed and erm excuse me people this lady was at WOODSTOCK??? where both SLY and JIMI played and were at their height of their powers).. respects him as a host (throws the best parties in the world) is at one with his respect 4 her as one of his mentors,(his version of a Case of you being on a tribute album). So Joni Mitchell has much respect 4 Prince and in calling him the Greatest she is acknowledging that he is the BEST. Case Closed. [Edited 9/6/07 2:18am] Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter.
Is this 2morrow or just the END of time? The Funk will always b with u "I've got a face, not just my race, Bang Bang I've got you babe!" | |
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That's like saying Picasso isn't a genius, because he didn't invent cubism.
Geniuses steal, don't they? | |
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Heiress said: That's like saying Picasso isn't a genius, because he didn't invent cubism.
Geniuses steal, don't they? (Poor Braque though...he never really gets lumped in the genius category even though he was the Cubism co-inventor. ) | |
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I thought Joni didn't go to Woodstock in the end? I could be wrong... | |
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