Wolf said:

did he? he said "i'm black, not mixed" or something of the kind?

AaronForever said:

Of course, he referred to himself as a 'black man' which got some white fans in a tizzy. I cant remember which award show it was.

Wolf said:

ah, i almost recall this. it wasn't that he said he was black, but disparaged his white fans.

yes, i remember. i believe it was in 1997.

only took him 20 years then to come out with the truth.

AaronForever said:

actually I think the one youre thinking of was either the Larry King interview or the Chris Rock interview on VH1. The one I'm thinking about was an awards show where he got some sort of lifetime achievement thing or something. As far as the 20 years thing goes, I belive Black and Rising said it best.

Wolf said:

I concede to what BlackAndRising had to say. However, he didn't really start owning up to his own blackness frequently or embrace it again (after 82) until the late 90's when he seemed to be chasing a very r&b market again, with Emancipation, NPS, and much of Rave.

Aaron, I was wrong. Actually when he said what some white fans see as disparaging them he was on BET, not Larry King or that Chris Rock interview. Its hard to keep it all straight sometimes.

Here I am putting in my When Prince first came out it was his management and P.R team that came up with him being racially mixed so that he could appeal to a broader audience. I have never read anywhere where Prince said that he's half white. Like every artist that comes on the scene it's the people behind them the image consultants, that create these images for people.

I don't know why people have to question whether Prince is Black or not. Prince is Black!. If he didn't say it then he's saying it now!! Yet some people hate to admit that he's black... maybe that says something about them and where their head is at. How could you suggest that someone not what they're telling you what they are? Are we all racially mixed well yeah but what are you considering yourself today?

I think Tricky 99 hit the nail on the head. I think white people don't want to accept Prince being who he is because it takes something away from them. On this website alone I've read why Prince don't have white people in his group anymore? Why don't he date white women anymore the last one was Kim Bassinger? Why Prince doesn't have white people on the cover of TRC? Come on, now! Why White bands didn't have Black people on the cover of their albums or in their band. Did anybody question that or is that just the way it's suppose to be?

Prince is Black. Prince has always been Black, people. Yeah he grew up in Minneapolis, believe it or not WE are there, too. Listened to artists who inspired him that are Black. He has Black friends and grew up in a Black neighborhood...remember The Time, Andre Cymone among others and yes he had and always had Black girlfriends,(Manuela's Black for those that thought not). So there you go I said it...my peace/piece. Now go back and enjoy the music.

AaronForever said:

actually, this is the biggest problem; and I ain't trying to dawg you or follow you here, but this shit irritates me to no end...why did he even have to come out and "embrace" his blackness? The very fact that this is an issue requires discussion...not just regarding Prince, but race relations period.
Anyway, it was very evident in his music where he was coming from...I remember as a teen, all of my friends, never even going with the "mixed" thing, would always refered to him as that "bad ass brotha." We never considered that he wasn't Black. We just knew, and he knew that we knew. Hell, there are references in 1999, PR, MANY references in UTCM (movie)all the away up to now...I mean, he was making so much fun of black/white diffences in that movie I found it hard to believe that no one picked up on it back then. I still watch it today and marvel at how he slipped all that shit in. So to the people who understood what was going on, there was no need to "come out." We knew...I mean, seriously...do you really think Prince was embracing his "blackness" more to get in the R&B market?? His speaking out on it more had loads more to do with his situation at WB then anything.

BlackandRising said:

It's only an issue because of the way Prince did it. For others, no. But before 96 or 97, you never heard him talk about being a black artist. You never heard him making fun of white fans. He was chasing an r&b market in the late 90's. It seems to me that he started adopting attitudes and making statements to sell out his white audience for a black one.




I realize that. My point is that he never came out and reversed himself on the "mixed" statement until the late 90's, if ever. It was never an issue for him in interviews, and rarely in his music. Then all of a sudden, he's coming from left field with this whole attitude at the age of 40, when as far as I can recall, having ready many interviews from the 80's and early/mid 90's it was NEVER an issue prior to 96.

Perhaps I mis-stated what I meant before. The way I see it, is he put out this "mixed" notion in the 70's and 80's and never clarified or reversed it after he had already been accepted until the late 90's when he was chasing a hip, urban, r&b audience. I fully understand why he said he was mixed in the 70's and 80's. I just find it a little disheartening that it took him 20 years to own up to the truth about himself. Was he really that insecure about it up until that time? I sure hope not. But it's definitely notable if he was.





except his situation at WB had nothing to do with him being black, no matter what he wants you to think. he was their wunderkid for 10 years, he stopped selling so many albums, spent all the money they'd given him, and then decided to start bitching about being a slave. none of the shit he went through with WB was because he was black. it was because he handled it the same way he handles pretty much every business decision: POORLY.

And yeah, I know everybody knew he was black. But he never ADMITTED to it until the late 90's. And yes, I used the word admitted purposely, because it seems like he was trying to use the "mixed" thing until he said otherwise. And to me, when he said otherwise, it seemed calculated.

Are you racists aware that youre racists, or are you in some bizarre denial?

He played both 'Avalanche' and 'Xenophobia' on Friday night. Both were superb.

Prince has every right to discuss race or any other subject he pleases artistically.

I'm white but I perfectly understand the message conveyed so poignantly and respectfully on 'Avalanche'.

'Nobody wants to take the weight, the responsiblity' - That's a line we can all relate to, irrespective of our culture or skin colour.

Only a bigot could fail to be touched by such a sentiment paired with such a beautiful, heartfelt song.

I applaud Prince's bravery in tackling such issues.

Thank you, BlackandRising,Jseven, Wolf and Scotty1014.
And as for Prince being politcal,as I believed someone mentioned, is it only reserved for musicians like Bono?
I'm through, now let's move on.

CocoSweet said:

Bono's always been political. Prince hasn't.

Jagjams said:

are you aware that it's possible to have an open debate on this without resorting to calling people who disagree with you racists?

AaronForever said:


Really?
Partyup
Ronnie Talk To Russia
Free

Just to name a few of his early work. No, he may not have been vocal in the past as far as a forum goes, but in music he sure has been.

AaronForever said:

I wasnt talking to anybody in particular but you clearly feel singled out. Wonder why?

AaronForever said:

..Prince has made social statements before..and when Bono speaks about politics he *talks* about it..he doesnt mince words..he doesnt get all cryptic..

did anyone see Bono on Oprah? damn, that man is a great public speaker...

Jagjams said:

because you're talking to the people on this thread, and i'm one of them, and no one else said anything.

that little thing you did there really wasn't as clever as you thought.

CocoSweet said:

2 of the 3 examples you gave are very vague "isn't it great to be free" and "i wanna party instead of go to war" songs. hardly great political statements.

Ronnie Talk 2 Russia and Annie Christian though, are more like it, however misguided they are.

of course, they're songs. he never spoke on these issues in interviews. and he actually was still doing interviews at the time.

AaronForever said:

What's the issue; whether his political songs are great political statements or whether or not he made political statements at all?

And why is he not allowed to make such statements NOW just because he never made great political statements before?

What exactly is the train of thought here?

Supernova said:

his political statements in the past were very vague and said nothing at all.

his recent adoption of them seems forced. and uninformed to say the least.

AaronForever said:

Firstly, they may have been vague to some people. Not everybody. Therefore, if they were vague to you it doesn't necessarily mean they said nothing at all. They were just vague to you. Not that I'm saying every single lyric he ever wrote was crystal clear (how boring would that be anyway?), because even some of his non-political songs aren't obvious in nature to some of his most ardent fans.

Secondly, I don't know what exactly is uninformed about his recent stance. I sometimes question his methods (about a few things, not necessarily political songs), but not his social/political viewpoints. What political angle did he espouse that seems uninformed?

Please don't say Lincoln. His mentality was/is a matter of public record and is certainly not something that most folks don't know unless they're in denial.

Supernova said:

right, but show me some real meaning in the lyrics of Free? or Partyup? it sounds like he's just paying lip service to it, like he felt like he needed some political songs, but really had no views, so we get "be glad that you are free" and "We don't give a damn We just want to jam Party up" real insight, no?



the title of this thread, for one. taking a historical quote from 150 years ago out of context and trying to apply it to a standard people are held to today.

the race thing he seemed to be on a few years ago, trying to pain the situation with Warner Bros. as a black thing. and at the same time trying to speak on being a black man which is his right, but he shouldn't pretend to speak from any other viewpoint than his own, which has been a very wealthy and well-respected black man for most of his life.

3rd, basically the politicization of his spirituality of late. that's a thread of its own, and all those points have been debated to death.



too late, already said it. the problem I have with it isn't that him using the quote. but he's singling Abe Lincoln out, instead of commenting on the mindset of that period. for that period, Abe Lincoln was pretty damn progressive. Prince is outright calling him a racist, which by today's standards, would be correct. by that era's standards, he was pretty forward-thinking.
[This message was edited Tue Oct 8 19:00:15 PDT 2002 by AaronForever]

AaronForever said:

Personally, I don't consider "Free" a political song. "Partyup" is a song I interpret as more of an undertaking of revamping musical aesthetics. ..."revolutionary rock and roll"...


Did you ever think that "Free" could be simply a song about depression, and trying to bring oneself out of it? I'm not saying it is, I'm saying it very well could be. Prince is the same guy who once told an interviewer that his work was motivated by "despair and lonliness." We all know how much Prince uses metaphors. He's done that from For You thru TRC.


So this couldn't at all be Prince holding up the example of Lincoln as a hero that America exalts at the expense of not expanding what exactly was behind his actions and rhetoric?


Here's the thing: WE don't know WHAT exactly went on with the new blood in executive positions behind closed doors at Warner Bros. with regard to Prince unless we were there. All the rest is hearsay. Prince being disgruntled with WB had to more to do with just him wanting out of his contract. It had do with the fact that there was an influx of different people taking over too. The people (or maybe just the ones who staunchly had his back) there who were in his corner were on the outs, as was Prince. HOW his situation was handled by others there is not something I'm privy to, and I doubt it's something anyone here is privy to unless they were there. All we know is second hand news from different sources. But one thing I do know is that it almost got physical between at least a couple of WB execs - but I think that specific scuffle had more to do with music industry politics at WB. That's an example that should tell people all was not well with WB during that time, it wasn't JUST a Prince thing.


Prince is holding up a mirror to America's exalted heroes. There was more to his actions than most want everybody to believe. Lincoln is a symbol of many things, not just some progressive politican. Pretty damn progressive doesn't mean anything if it's less than 100% equality for EVERYBODY. That's like saying be happy with what you get even if it's not TOTAL equality.

I think a lot of people would rather have Prince revert back to singing about pussy and how much he wants to fuck the taste out of Marcia's mouth, instead of tackling anything that doesn't jibe with who America should be reverent toward.

SkletonKee said:

What if Lincoln was a Racist? Prince seems to think so, you think not, Who knows, whats the big deal. Most White People during this time was Racist. I think Lincoln was a decent man, and did a decent thing (although it was political) And if he did say the things that Prince sings about in the song then maybe he was. Thank God that things are changing. don't get mad at the past, just be glad that it is the Past.

Nep2nes said:

Why would Prince or anyone have to admit what they are?

From your Pic you wouldn't have to admit that you are White, everyone that sees you will know. Everything about Prince is Black centered, First Band, The Time, his sister, his mother, his father etc. His speech, his attitude, he plays every style of music known to man, now a white dude could never do that. (lol) just a joke. But you know what I'm saying.

I admire Prince for looking beyond race and having a higher vision, including all races, sex and type of music. It shows that he is a Human Being. He never (at least to my knowledge) put down any race. He has always spoke of unity among the races. So why do his fans try and separate his vision. He is not anti- white, he is not anti-Jewish, he is not anti- any thing dealing with race. Just listen to his music, it speaks for it self.

AaronForever said:

Just like I didnt call you a racist, I didnt say, or think my comments were clever. Youre projecting again.

Jagjams said:

Then we are in agreement. Case closed.

jazzy328is said:

now go tell prince this


prince used to preach positivity...now he just seems bitter. bitter about an old dead man..bitter about his old contract..bitter about his masters..bitter about webistes...bitter bitter bitter...

It's a fuckin' horrible song.