Shorty said:

When Warner supported his over budgeted first LP, nobody complained. Who paid for that ? Prince ? No. the major label. And they lost a lot of money.
When Warner spent millions of dollars to produce and over promote Purple Rain movie everywhere, nobody complained.
When Warner spent millions of dollars to promote all his solo albums and world tours despite poor sales, nobody complained.
When Warner chose Prince to make the Batman soundtrack to re boost his career, nobody complained.
When Prince was everywhere on MTV, with expensive videos (paid by the major labels), with all hype, nobody complained. period.

Everybody was happy, fans were happy, Prince made millions of dollars thanks to... the major label that spent a lot of money to make him who he is.


I can understand that some people criticize major labels greediness and control. But don't put to hell an entire system that help your favorite artist to be A SUPERSTAR.

Nobody forced him to sign with a major label. I repeat NOBODY. This is Prince who wants to be part of the system. Without his label he would have never been where he is.

krayzie said:

You have some good points but I think the original thought was that a new artist today would not have the same kind of relationship with a major that Prince did. The music business is a different beast than the system that helped Prince to be a superstar. The majors do not give the artists that kind of support anymore.

genremusic said:

which is, of course, a matter of opinion...

krayzie said:

If it wasn't Warner Bros. it would have been another major label.

krayzie said:

And did Warner Bros. complain when it made them a ton of money?

krayzie said:

Record companies very rarely finance their artists' tours.

krayzie said:

Tim Burton chose Prince upon the suggestion of Jack Nicholson.

krayzie said:

Most of his videos look like they've been made in his garage. I doubt the majority were expensive.

krayzie said:

A major label can bankroll any clown without any return. Prince was given millions because he made millions.

krayzie said:

There weren't alternatives for mass distribution in the past and now there is. The Record Industry is redundant quite frankly - not just for Prince but for any artist.

krayzie said:

Yes he would.

O please with that crap. If Prince made 50 mill with Warner Bro. then they made 300 mill. Warner was very happy until Prince called them on the masters. They should have just signed a distribution deal with him and gave him free reign but they couldn't think that far ahead because everything with them is about money and not innovation. Prince took a hit financially when he first left warner, but the reward was worth the tribulations for him. Thanks Prince for thinking outside the box.

Around the World in a Day!

krayzie said:

All these points don't really matter anymore anyway. The business is changing. And, it's about time!!

It's a moot point to argue where Prince would be without Warner (or any major label for that matter). The important thing here is is that he's beginning to jump-start the kinds of changes that will ultimately benefit artists rather then business men, and that should be celebrated...

I truly believe Prince has an appreciation for those who have helped him achieve the legendary status he now enjoys (the majors). But, I also feel he knows of his obligation and responsibility to those future legends in the industry. 20 years down the line, they'll be thanking HIM for being the visionary he is showing himself to be in their very own HOF acceptance speeches...

Just my 2 cents.

krayzie said:

artist pay for the videos. It's comes out of the royalties. Record companies keep royaltie check untill the promotion is paid for. It's the record companies JOB to promote. When they do it, of course no one complains. Prince has enuff of a name to where much promotion isn't needed to pay for to acheive the results he wants. Someone like Rihana 2 years ago needed the powers of a record company to make hewr famous. it worked for her. People change, record companies don't.

Justin1972UK said:

Oh yes, he would have been another major label. Because he needed a major other major to be famous.

Justin1972UK said:

Nope because they INVESTED A LOT OF MONEY TO MAKE HIM FAMOUS. It cost a lot of money to make him a superstar. And Prince fans didn't complain. This is how it is.

Justin1972UK said:

Record companies don't finance tour, but they spend a lot of money to ADVERSTISE THE TOURS. So everytime your Prince is all over the globe, his major made sure that all the young kids know.

Justin1972UK said:

Who paid for his videos that look like they've been made in his garage. Prince ?

Nope All his videos have been financed by his major, not Prince. But you didn't complain against that. You were very happy to see Prince on MTV.

Justin1972UK said:

Bingo !!!!!

And That's why they have to take a big percentage on CDs. Because it cost a lot of money to promote artists. And a lot of artist need massive exposure, promotion and publicity to sell records. And Prince is one of those artists who needed a big machine behind him to become a superstar. And I'm sure that YOU DIDN'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT, RIGHT ?

Justin1972UK said:

And Warner spend millions to boost his career before he made millions. And I'm sure you didn't complain about that.

Justin1972UK said:

Oh yes there was another alternative. GIGS GIGS AND MORE GIGS like all the independent artists.

But serioulsy, it(s quite better when you are a young artist and you have a record company behind you paying everything the musicians, hotels, promotion, and advertising. I mean serioulsy.

It's much cooler than paying all that by yourself, isn't it ?

An I'm sure you didn't complain about that.

Justin1972UK said:

Oh no he wouldn't. To get such a fame worldwide. you need a BIG major behind you. And I repeat, nobody forced him to sign with a major. 99 % of artists are indie artists. He wanted the fame, he wanted the money, and he wanted to be part of the system. The system helped him to be what he is.

Without Warner there's NO Prince.
[Edited 7/17/07 16:21pm]

krayzie said:

did you even read my post? how are you so sure no one was complaining? there just wasn't any way to know about it. We most of the time didn't even know what was going on behind the scenes...we just wanted the music, it's just a different day and age, that's all

Kudos to Prince.

It's true that Prince wouldn't have had the opportunity or capability to pull off this little stunt without already being rich and famous, but ultimately he's one of those people artists are going to be thanking if all goes well. True, he wouldn't be where he is today without the backing of a major label, but when the artist in question -the person who puts all the real work into creating the product -is only bringing in a fraction of the profits that some fat fuck sitting in an office makes off the record, something is very wrong with the way things are run.

For change to happen, there's got to be somebody first with the power to influence change. I'm sure there's all kinds if indie artists out there with great ideas for overhauling the industry, but they've unfortunately got no way to implement them. Prince and others of his ilk can.

The industry needs to adapt it's methods, or it'll die.

U can criticize the records as much as u can but prince wont have been big without them! Record companies invest in many younger artist and only a few pay off so they make their money of those who become big u cant blame them they put in millions of dollars and some suddenly become big!

Record companies dont have anything to do with the tours and dont advertise on those tours at all that is all done with tour promoters! But record companies would like thier artist to tour to promote the record

Most prince videos r not expensive just look at MJ videos they put 10times what they spend on prince videos! most r very cheaply made and the videos come outta prince royalties so its not like the record compnies r spendin the money

but they financed all his 3 movies at great cost to them

But the industry is chaning the labels want a piece of the tourin revenue and also part of sellin perfumes and everything what a manager gets a cut of. i mean soon the artist will have very little leverage with record companies


Both prince and MJ complained about their labels when thier records werent sellin so much! They both felt the labels where spendin the money to promote them enuff. And record companies r always lookin for the next hot thing to break so its not like they care about the artist.
[Edited 7/17/07 20:58pm]

asg said:

The dispute isn't with the money or time put into promotion of the artists, the dispute (well, part of it) is with the fact that for every dollar made by said artist, some executive sitting in an office who doesn't know a thing about music or put any effort into the creation of it, makes 20$. It doesn't matter how much promotion went into a particular album if the people who did the real work on it aren't being paid fairly, and aren't being granted control over their product.

meow85 said:

but thats true in any business executives always make the money!

asg said:

Sorry to butt in, but that's the point exactly! The business world is a place all too often where people are centred in the financial gain and not the *relating* with the people they provide a service for. I am not saying that business in not about making money. Of course it is... But our social financial system is built by a lot of greedy people and until there's enough of a counter system, even those that want to be balanced with the business side of things and decent relating with colleagues and customers have no choice but to be dragged along with greedy action - or their business will close. That's why Prince's move is so radical. He is doing something completely against the way this system operates.

The guys a genius!!!

I think alot of the great artists should do this at least once, like someone on here suggested earlier, as it was a brilliant idea of getting alot of cash and getting it out there for alot of "new" people to hear his stuff, but a way to give back to his fams!!!!

krayzie said:

This post sounds like you're saying that Warner's or any other label did all of this out of the goodness of their hearts. This is NOT true.

Sure, labels take the initial financial risk on any artist, however, they keep track of EVERY dollar spent on studio time, marketing, videos, hair/makeup, wardrobe, transportation, hotels, even meals. THEN they get reimbursed immediately from the revenue generated by the artists album sales and tours PLUS they take their cut outta the royalties. It's called recouping. THEN the artist gets whatever is left over AFTER they pay their own staff and taxes. Which is how each member of TLC walked away with ONLY $300,000 after selling 10 million copies of an album. So in reality, Warner Brothers came up big time offa Prince and sure it's an investment but they got back EVERY penny first before Prince got a check because this was the status quo for many years.

krayzie said:

[Edited 7/18/07 6:11am]

It was a smart move. Once again you could hear the muttering of record companies bosses all over "DAMN THAT PRINCE".

dseann said:

What you need is a good
and

I wish I could contribute to the sales of the newspaper, but they didn´t deliver the CD with the paper outside UK:

SCNDLS said:

Seems that some people have no sense of reality. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY IT COSTS TO PROMOTE AN ARTIST NATIONALLY IN A COUNTRY LIKE THE UNITED STATES ???

To get national exposure on national TV, radio, magazines, national advertising ?

All this money you don't see it. You talk like it costs nothing to promote an artist nationaly or internationally.

THAT COSTS A LOT OF MONEY !!!!
And Prince's poor sales didn't reimburse anything until Purple Rain.

WOW Some people have absolutely no sense of reality, promotion is what costs the most.

AND concerning TLC, you are confusing majors and managers. It had nothing to do with the record company but Pebbitone their manager.

krayzie said:

I didn't say it didn't cost a lot of money all I said was that the record company gets ALL of their money back up front BEFORE the artist gets a dime. And regarding TLC they signed a standard recording contract with LaFace, Pebbles was their manager, but the lionshare of the profits went to the record company. I mentioned them to illustrate that this is the status quo, standard practice and not unique.

But since you're taking it SOOOOO personally that you think it's necessary to berate everyone who disagrees with you or tries to present a different point of view, I'll leave you to your level headed sense of "reality." I'm out. . .

asg said:

Look at it this way; if Prince is allowed to use his sales of the Daily Mail as official sales of his album, then he would probably own the world record for most albums sold in a week (a day actually). Nsync currently holds the Soundscan records for the most albums sold in one week (2.4 million copies sold), but if Prince's newspaper insert sales are allowed to be tallied, then he would easily eclipse Nsync's record. What freaks the record companies out about this is that artists like Madonna, Paul McCartney, Bruce Springsteen, etc. could ditch the labels and go up to the New York Times, USA Today, or People magazine and negotiate their own album release via printed media.

SCNDLS said:

The record company gets ALL of their money back up front BEFORE the artist gets a dime ONLY AND ONLY IF CDs SELL ENOUGH.

IF NOT, THEY LOSE MONEY.

The majors spend and invest millions for free in the first place to promote your artists everywhere.


When an artist succeeds he gets money on royalties.
When an artist fails miserabily, the artist pays nothing.

Don't forget that.

And regarding TLC, again, you are completly wrong. Peebles was the manager of the group who discovered the girls way before they get sign on Laface. The royalties due to the girls went to their manager. Again you are confusing managers and majors. Laface had NOTHING to do with this. The same thing happened many times before like Elvis Presley or more recently with Back street boys, NWA or B2k. The managers abuse ignorant artists and make most of the money.

Majors are not responsible for that.

728huey said:

I dont think in the US u can distribute cds with news papers! Its 5times the size of the uk! you could distribute it with a music magazines. most older artist dont care about how much they make from album sales at all since they can make that in a week in touring! most veteran artist r more worried about exposure because radio wont touch them at all!
Even a hot record doesnt really translate into dollars! sir paul wont be able to sell his pricey concert tickets to younger fans even if they bought his CD which took off on radio! Most fans come to tours to hear u play the hit records from the past but u can slip in a few tunes from recent record but u cant do much more!

You got it.
And when we get deep into it, we'll have a period when we look back fondly at the idea of going to a record shop instead of 'Free Prince FLAC when you send ten text messages with BINGTEL'


728huey said:[quote]asg said:
[Edited 7/29/07 9:58am]

A record company is an expensive type of bank and I can see other bansk stepping in to provide similar services without the 'in perpetuity' options as younger artists who already know that fame can be achieved on a smaller scale, on an evolving scale, on a desirable scale long-term, instead of 'all at once and for the blink of an eye'

The record companies and their retail partners just got too carried away with the greed that tremendous seventies and eighties profits kicked in, all of it built on smaller-scale action by artists which is increasingly what we're returning to.

As McCartney said in the mid-nineties (and he's an understated prophet whose nounce is consistent), 'The sixties are the future'

I see what he's on about. Bush has brought back the fifties and we're living in 'em. The record companies still have seventies tailors so why can't they be happy with seventies turnover figures?

krayzie said: