I always wondered why the Crystal Ball set was so filled with 91/95 stuff, while everyone, including Prince, is aware how everyone is pining for vaulted Revolution-era stuff.

My theory is that Prince at the time was a bit angry with W&L for multiple reasons, as there are hardly any songs with them on the set. He does not even thank them in the liner notes, while at least Wendy might be one of the songs (either Wendy or Susannah on backing vox)

My thought is that we should demand a new vaulted set box with JUST Revolution material, as he is at least speaking to them again.

Prince, get to it, mr! Stop acting Miss Prissy and SATISFY your loyal customers!

Maybe he already had Roadhouse Garden in mind then and wanted to use those tracks there.

Wendy and Lisa were horrific as far as musicians go and Bobby Z. was an utter tragedy. Brown Mark and Dr. Fink could hold their own, but other than sentiment, the other players had nothing to offer other than fantasies of salad days to starry eyed fans who cannot move past 1986. 'Pathetic' is the first and only word which comes to mind.

What you have is Prince was at his creative peak during this era -- he was young and hungry -- and that lot was lucky enough to be around for the ride.

Honestly, would anyone rather listen to Wendy than Miko or Mike Scott? Or Lisa on keyboard instead of Morris Hayes or Renato Neto? Bobby Z over Michael Bland or John Blackwell? I'm sure there are those that would but we have a word for such types -- NUTTERS.

That's not what this thread is about.

Wall said:

Hehehe, thank you for your flame-worthy post. Much appreciated.

Anyways, nutters goes both ways, as everyone has an opinion. Myself, I love The Revolution, as they were Prince's dream, having a band that resembled Larry Graham's Central Station, incorporating black and white and colorful musicians, blending his particular styles of funk and rock.

I myself think that his band from the beginning on were very important for him to cultivate his image. When it comes to his band being good performers, they might not have been the best in the book, but I would still chose Parade over The Rainbow Children ANY TIME...

And saying W&L are 'pathetic'? Their Eroica album is better than anything Prince did after Sign O The Times, their Girl Bros album invokes more emotion than anything Prince did in years...

HamsterHuey said:

So true!

HamsterHuey said:

Amen!!!

i'm one of those probably labeled "pathetic" people who can't helpt but
hope that now they've got back together to do some stuff on planet earth
one of them might have brought up Roadhouse Garden again.

that prospect makes me more anxious than the pending leak of PE. call it
sad or stuck in the past but that's just how i am.

HamsterHuey said:

I have not heard nor do I have an interest in hearing their albums, which if you'd like, can put me in the 'closed mind, doesn't know of what he speaks' category, but I have a hard time imagining their albums near the muscicianship of even a lackluster Prince record.

And I would also take Parade over The Rainbow Children but I tend to think the influence of Wendy and Lisa is overdone and credit is due to Prince, not to some C-rate musicians who happened to listen to the White Album when they were in high school. Don't get me wrong, they added something to his prime, but Sign O The Times, 1999 and Purple Rain were virtually one man projects and just because 'they' were in his band at the time, Around the World in a Day and Parade, sorry to break it to so many, are NOT -repeat: NOT - Wendy and Lisa albums. As if they could ever construct something as intricate as those records on their own.

HA!

Wall said:

I used to think W & L's influence was overrated too -- until they left and Prince failed to prove he could produce anything transcendent and amazing without them. He's been flailing for more than 10 years.

Yes, I know SOTT, Batman, Loxesexy were genius ..but he was still on W & L vapors By the time the residual of a challening set of minds wore off, he was making far less metaphoric, adventurous and uniquely artistic stuff.

Sure, he worked with better musicians, but they never really sparked his genius to me. W & L had the best synergy with him. And synergy can go a long way when it comes to inspiration and productivity.

It's clear that Prince is bored as hell now musically because no one is challenging him and being a thorn in his side. He's regressing almost. It's scary.

But on topic, I never really thought about that. Maybe he wanted to preserve the seemingly magical, all-hit wonder of his 80s music. Can you imagine if he leaked an 80s song that sucked. I mean I hate the Black Album but it has its moments. Everything from the 80s is legendary, no need to mess with that.

SynthiaRose said:

You ramble a good deal but unfortunately that's the only cohesive strain of your message.

What made Prince a household name was first, When Doves Cry and its stark sound -- did Wendy or Lisa tell him to drop the bass from that song? NO. Did Wendy - HA! - play the solo in that track? Only in her dreams.

Second was the movie Purple Rain. I imagine we can all give credit to Prince for his B-movie performance and not Wendy and Lisa. Make no mistake about it, this movie and Prince's fawn eyes helped procure his spot in American popular culture.

Fast forward to Around The World In A Day... Raspberry Beret, one of his biggest hits was written in 1982.

Wall said:

Then why are we talking?

You are even more closed to influences than you accuse us nutters to be and cannot even discuss how far their influence goes, as you are just kicking against the 'Prince was better with The Revolution'-resonance that you read into my post, whcih it was actually not about at all.

I did not say that, nor ever will. Prince recorded genius songs without them, as you pointed out and this is true. But I just liked the edge their friendship gave his/their music while they were friends. It resonated a love and a scope/blending/depth of musicianship I have not heard in Prince's music since. Or not often.

I mean, not all tracks W&L contributed to were ace. Their reworking of Witness 4 The Prosecution does not work for me AT ALL, compared to Prince minimalistic earlier effort. And there are more examples.

But Prince's musical output AND success during his time with The Revolution still holds magical power to alot of people who were around at that time. And logically. I never overvalued W&L's influence on Prince's music. Whenever I lobbied for their involvement in Prince's music, I always lamented the loss of great backing vocals, as Prince overdubbing ALL of his backing vox himself does not sound as sexy to me as the W&L backing vocals.

Now I need to play Do U Lie? again...

Can we now get back on-topic?

HamsterHuey said:

Well if you want to hear their backing vocals, then by all means, have at it. I wont deny they were capable of providing backing vocals.

However, if Prince's output during the Revolution era holds, as you state, "magical power" then you are as dense as a brick and obviously lack a critical capacity to speak of art in terms beyond those which might appear in a children's fairy tale.

Trip the light fantastic to Wendy and Lisa but please dont try to tell anyone with a sliver of rationale that they actually mattered.

Wall said:

Hey Wall, I'm looking for you to point out genius post-Wendy/Lisa.

You're focusing on songs created when Wendy or Lisa or both were part of the Prince milieu, so the synergy factor still applies. They were around to stoke him.

And in your prior argument you stated that early Prince was driven by his hunger -- which is always the case with youth & artistry, so that would account for any pre-Wendy/Lisa genius. But there comes a time in every innovator's, virtuoso's life when they need to have their embers fanned -- that's what Wendy and Lisa did for PRince.

And when they left, there was no one to do that. And eventually his embers cooled off and he's been pitifully trying to revive them since.

May you enjoy my ramble.

Wall said:

I understand you are just here to call people names. Is why I 'thanked' you for your flame-worthy post in my initial reaction to your first post.

It is not me who is biased, as I am not the one off-topic or have to call people names to 'prove my point'. Like I said, some of your critique holds up, the way you build up your case just rambles.

Cuz I wasn't saying anything you accuse me off in my first post, you were the one that brought that on.

Anyways. Enough of this. Back on topic.

Oh, and @ thick people.

HamsterHuey said:

Look what you've started now!


IIRC, your original post is right. CB ('98) is largely Revolution-less because he probably had in mind to do further archive releases (which we know he did - CB2, Roadhouse Garden, I think I do even recall in an interview him even mentioning live Revolution and Miles Davis stuff).

I don't think Roadhouse Garden was a concrete idea when CB was started, but I think he had it in mind to do a similar archive release, which eventually took form as RHG.

I'm sure someone else can formulate that stream of consciousness into a more 'dates and figures' kinda chronology.
[Edited 7/7/07 2:50am]

SynthiaRose said:

Look into 1987 and the album Sign o The Times. Then move onto 1988 and Lovesexy, I think you'll find yourself pleasantly surprised. And if you can find the concert film for Sign o The Times, your pleasure will be doubled.It's the weekend so ranking individual tracks isnt out of the question, but as its late, I'd also suggest album wise The Gold Experience and The Rainbow Children.




So was Bobby Z.

I'm afraid I was not a member of the inner-circle of this time to know who put fforth, as you say, 'synergy' which somehow influenced Prince's music, but I tend to believe that just by exisiting Wendy and Lisa did not have much to do with When Doves Cry, Let's Go Crazy, Purple Rain -- NOTE Wendy's first live appearance -- etc had much to do with them. And, Lisa was in the band for years prior -- why is it that she isn't mentioned with 1999? Surely she must have been the driving force behind Lady Cab Driver or DMSR, right? HA!



So they saved him at his creative peak, eh? If that's what you need to believe, then fine enough by me. And why didnt Lisa herself help out as I suggested above? Could it be because she had nothing to say?



I wish you the best of luck with a new musician. Might I suggest Wendy and Lisa? I hear their chops are fab.

HamsterHuey said:

Hmmm... Fair enough. I don't understand you at all here, so I'll just nod in agreement with your 'post.'

NouveauDance said:

Thank you. As far as I have always understood Roadhouse garden was just a collection of songs that Prince wanted W&L's input on, right?

I totally missed the fact that Prince wanted to releasze multiple vaulted material albums, beside CB. I know of the samples set that was announced, but, hence that, never saw the light of day.

I always thought Prince was miffed for them refusing to walk down an aisle waving flags (which he asked them to for that tv performance during the time he released The Purple Medley, which had himn rehashing old stuff.

They commented on that during a BBC program about the 80's that interviewed them for their chapter on Prince. I wonder if that was before or after Prince's idea of Roadhouse Garden; we all know how Prince thinks about people discussing him in the press.

Wall said:

I am perfectly willing to discuss the subject without the namecalling, mind. Or as long as you keep an open mind.

HamsterHuey said:

I don't recall calling your or anyone, in any of my posts a name.

HamsterHuey said:

U summed it up well. Thanks for stating what I was about to say.

Wonderwall said:

jtfolden said:

This is funnier than Dave Chappelle. Thanks 4 the laugh.
W&L is good 4 elevator music. NOTHING more.

Graycap23 said:

Oh, tell me Planet Earth's opening sentence again, please.

HamsterHuey said:

Oh Larwd.....

Graycap23 said:

Sorry, not on topic (sort of).
W&L added something that P never had, IMO, and, was/is a great thing. Were they the top-notch musicians P could've worked with? No, not the point. They added something to his music that no one has to this day, Them! Good or bad is purely subjective. For myself, Fave era (again) 85-88, before and after, still great, but it's all what we dig.