Oh. and the, umm, somgwriting was really good too.

I am going to have to change the title of the thread.

The WAAAAAY off-topic thread where I ask ONE thing about W&L and you just trash about something else.

HamsterHuey said:

It's the nature of the org.

Graycap23 said:

SO true.

Irritating, but true.

HamsterHuey said:

It would be NICE 4 threads 2 stay on topic but I don't think it's possible. One comment leads 2 another thought.

Graycap23 said:

Hehehe, "I did not WANT to call you that, but the previous post you MADE me..."

HamsterHuey said:

Lol.....It is all good.

Back to the original point...

Yes, it was deliberate that Crystal Ball was devoid of any "Revolution" tracks.
Not because of any bad feeling between Prince and Wendy and Lisa, but
because Prince was already putting together an archive release of "Revolution"
tracks called "Roadhouse Garden".

It's a shame Wendy & Lisa's contributions to his writing, hits and sound aren't better represented on CB.

Awesome (original) question, HH.

BorisFishpaw said:

Do you know the reason why he excluded them from the :"thank you's" in the liner notes? That looked pretty deliborate.

Wall said:

Wow...you must fall down a lot.

Wendy and Lisa are both amazing musicians, sorry but their resume speaks for it's self. When any of the other band members you mentioned work with Meshell Ndegeocello, Seal, Neil Finn or score movies and television shows we'll talk. Until then it seems like you have something personal against them and makes you look like a nutter.

WonderU said:

I suspect Wall was trying to get a rise out of folks. W&L's musicianship and songcrafting are in high demand. Folks in the industry know this.

HamsterHuey said:

Why would they be on the 'thank yous' when they weren't on the album?

BorisFishpaw said:

Wendy was, maybe. LoL

I just thought it vendetta, as he released a version of Dream Factory without W&L.

Whether you think Wendy and Lisa contributed to Prince's music or not, it's obvious that Prince does:

Witness the lyrics for 'In This Bed Scream' - did Prince write a song like that for Miko???

As far as Crystal Ball goes, I'd always thought P was pullin' a George Lucas: "You will like the new stuff... even if that means I have to hide the old stuff..."

I'm shocked to hear P was actually considering releasing some of those cuts.

Now's the time, P!

calldapplwondery83 said:

that's what he said at the time.

HamsterHuey said:

No, Prince had no ill-feeling towards Wendy & Lisa at that time. In fact he
had intended to get them involved with the "Roadhouse Garden" project.

The reason they weren't on the Thank-you's for Crystal Ball was simply that
they weren't on any of the tracks on the album (as Prince was saving the ones
they were on for Roadhouse Garden). Susannah sings backing vocals on
Dream Factory, and she does get a thank-you in the liner notes.

There certainly wasn't any deliberate effort to write Wendy & Lisa out of
credits they were due. It was just a side effect of Prince not using any of
the tracks they'd contributed to as he was saving them for a different album.

Wall said:

That's what I think of your post. You are joking, right? Horrific as far as musicians go?

HamsterHuey said:

I think, quite frankly, Prince used the Name Crystal Ball to invoke the image of bootlegged material from the era of CB, but had no intention of putting anything on it that was from that era. I also think it was about the $$$ in not including them. Obviously In All My Dreams was left off due to their input into that song.

So basically I think Prince is the reason that they were left off for gems like P Control Remix or Da Bang!

Wall said:

I read "thick as a brick".

Graycap23 said:

W&L are fine musicians and are quite accomplished.

Graycap23 said:

No just one comment led this thread down the wrong path.

Wall said:

Wow...Pass what ever you're smokin' over here. 'Cause you CAN'T really believe this.

jackmitz said:

I'd pass on smoking something that made me think W&L were horrible musicians...bad trip

Yes, I do think in terms of the people Prince has played with, Wendy and Lisa are likely two of the worst. Horrific? Perhaps I went too far, surely they know their scales and can keep the beat and I understand Lisa knows her classical but could they improvise? Rock into funk into jazz? No. Can you imagine if it was Prince on guitar, John Blackwell on drums, Renato Neto on keys and we'll say Levi Seacer on bass and you had to rely on Wendy and Lisa to join in for a late night jam? They'd be left hand tied and embarrassed. They exist in the Prince universe out of sentiment. They likely had a softening effect on his music post Purple Rain and may have had a few interesting ideas, but for his live bands, they, like Bobby Z, were the worst he's ever had at their respective instruments.

And from listening to the tracks that they supposedly helped out on on Planet Earth, they have nothing to add but fluff and filler to his studio material.

Wall said:

We all have our favorite musiicans from different eras. Calling ANY of the musicians hacks, horrible or otherwose does a huge diservice to Prince's legacy, IMO. He hand picks all of them, they must be good one way or another, otherwise he would not have chosen them. And any video showing them playing live is almost proof in the pudding they could hold their own and create a very exciting live experience.

And really, before you start ripping W&L new ones and saying what you are saying, you NEED to really hear their music without Prince. Really, your comments are coming out of left field for most of us, as we know that they were actually quite good. How can you make comments on music you have never heard?Listen to their albums, or any they have collaborated on (Seal, Neil Finn to name a few)...it cannot be denied. Rock into funk into jazz? Yeah they do that too.

superspaceboy said:

I've seen them play live with Prince and Wendy always has a deer in the headlights look on her face. I can almost hear her thinking through the chord progressions.

Prince put together that early band in an attempt to make it like Sly and The Family Stone with its diversity and I think he overlooked some sub-par musicianship as a result. He remedied it with the Sign O The Times band and hasn't looked back since.

I heard their Eroica album or whatever its called and was not impressed with it. I haven't heard anything else they've done with Seal or Neil Finn and have no interest because I've never respected their playing. When something's mediocre I don't usually keep seeking it out. And besides, I'm talking about their time with Prince not the musicians or bands they were hired by likely because of their association with Prince.

Wall said:[quote]

superspaceboy said:

I beg to differ with you on this they HAVE been working on scores for the television shows "Crossing Jordon"& "Heroes" and WON awards for both for best television scores. They obviously arent that HORRIFIC as you think they are.

I think you need to read a bit more on this subject!


[Edited 7/9/07 16:20pm]

toots said:[quote]

Wall said:

Fair enough. But as I noted, horrific was not the right adjective and I was wrong for calling them that.

Someone mentioned not seeking out mediocre material... so I'm guessing that person hasn't bought a Prince album a few years either???

The person who said that Prince with Wendy and Lisa is about Synergy, they are correct...

Look, even on Planet Earth, 3 of the 4 Wendy and Lisa songs aren't that good (but not terrible either), and it is because Prince wrote those songs... so in that sense it could be said that Wendy and Lisa don't really do much for him- but that would be wrong. There are better W&L-free tracks on the album, but the W&L tracks stand out. Those songs have layers upon layers of musicianship that wouldn't be there without them.

It isn't about W&L's ability to play blistering solos... It is how they compliment what Prince has written. It is how they have a different musical perspective than Prince, but how well that perspective works with him... It can't hurt that they are the only people who would probably tell Prince that he is wrong about something these days (musically or personally), and it is important for a superstar to hear different points of view, because a lot of people that work with him just smile and nod no matter what.

Even the bad songs are better off with W&L on them than without them.

I'd kill to get that crystal ball 2: the revolution years.