Makavelli99 said:

nice talking to you, take care.

kalelvisj said:

Let's start from the root, who inspired Elvis?

kpowers said:

And always remember....
"To thine own self, be true."

kpowers said:

it was nice talking to you too. maybe we can have another deep dicussion for more insight.

Makavelli99 said:

Elvis was inspired by everyone from Mario Lanza, Ernest Tubb, B.B. King, Arthur Crudup, Dean Martin, Jake Hess and on and on. Elvis soaked up all of the music that filled the air in Memphis, just as Ray Charles was inspired by the music that filled the air around him. No one in this post has denied the influence of any African American artists on Elvis.

But my quesiton is why is it stealing when Elvis does it and influence when Ray Charles does it?

As stated in an earlier post by miles...it is either stealing or it is influence, but it has to work both ways.
[Edited 5/3/07 16:22pm]

kalelvisj said:

Makavelli99 said:

Elvis ALWAYS credited all of his influences. In fact he faced death threats for violating sgregation laws and participating in fund raisers for the the black community. He thanked B.B. King publicly and privately for the "early lessons" B.B. gave him.

So since he always acknowledged his sources right up until his death...does he get to be influenced now instead of being a thief?

While, many people may not have any interest in Elvis' music at this point in time, it might still be important for them to go and research what a revolutionary he was in his public statments and actions in regards to the issues of racism.

Famed civil rights activist and photographer Ernest Withers stated that "Elvis was a great man and did more for civil rights than people know. To call him a racist is an insult to us all."

I just seems to me that it is just as racist to call Elvis a thief as it is to deny Little Richard impact. A very dangerous double edged sword.

Thanks for continuing this coversation. Your views are well stated and clearly sincere.

Peace out!
[Edited 5/3/07 18:11pm]

kalelvisj said:

I appreciate your insight as well.

One Love

And as I watch the latest elvis biopic, I am reminded why he was so dear and so special. For all his many faults (most of which I blame on the phenomenal strain of being a superstar) he was truly a beautiful, big hearted man who saw his mission in life to give joy to others. I remember reading anecdotes about his giving money to a bum and having someone drive around in circles as he kept looking at the man and crying. This was before he was mega-Elvis but the stories of his wonderful generosity seem to come out more and more as time passes. In the biopic, he buys a (black) lady a cadillac that she looked at dreamily through a window, total stranger. That kind of heart is a big part of what connects through his voice and to us, past all the bs. Hell, let me tell you, none of you Elvis critics have nothing on racism compared to me, I'm an Indian, I have major issues with white people, I would be the last person to proclaim a white man's greatness if I didn't firmly believe in it.

mozfonky said:

Yep! U R absolutelt right!
But U gotta understand Princes' music is more for the real MUSIC fan, not for the unthinking. And unfortunately, THEY R in the majority!!!!!

Amaxx said:

what's not real music? i say rap!

Prince said:

KidaDynamite said:

Why would prince want an open and intelligent debate about issues of race and musicology to end? It seems to me that some of his best music asks that his listeners ask these questions and have these debates.

I have read some powerful points written in this thread and whether or not I agree with them or not, I am glad to see the debate taking place...even if it is a bit off the original topic.

The only reason I can think that anyone would want to stop the debate is that they can think of nothing intelligent to say.

Got to say I love the Prince pic. The text fits his expression perfectly and is quite funny.

Peace out and as always...Lovesexy!!

girl66 said:

Too many of Elvis' fans would tell you that neither Prince or Michael Jackson had any hits to crossover on the country charts.

TonyVanDam said:

Thank God 4 that. Country is the biggest WANK job of all music.

I think Prince is infintely better and more talented than Elvis in every way.

kittylarue2 said:

Elvis was a better actor

kitty is definitely a youngin!!!!!

kalelvisj said:

It's not that I don't have anything intelligent to say, it's just that I personally never saw the point in comparing people especially if you think their very talented. Even Prince himself once said that he doesn't compare. I just posted this pic out of pure fun and thought I could get a couple of laughs out of it cause I to love the picture.

kalelvisj said:

You bring up some very good points. Elvis also had to deal with religious attacks as well, saying he was singing "the devils" music.

KidaDynamite said:

The picture is hilarious. I agree that it is often silly to compare artists. I do feel there are comparisons to make between Elvis and Prince. Overwhelming ly positive, but there are also a few ways that they are a like in very negative ways. Not so much in music style but in impact and image and how they processed the music they loved into their own "voice."

Regardless of comparing the artists, this topic had become a debate about racism, and influence versus stealing music, etc. It was that debate that I was hoping to see continue.

I apologize for the implication you had nothing intelligent to add. It is just that if you look through the posts in this topic you will see many replies that say "Elvis stole music instead of being influenced by it" (often these posts have been incredibly racist) and that he has no real lasting impact on music. I was disappointed that none of the people who slammed Elvis had any real rebuttal to the quotes by African American artists that praised Elvis as an integrator and musician/performer. Again, sorry for the unintentional insult, but I do hope this debate will continue. While it may seem to drift from the topic, I think the debate is important enough to continue.

Peace out and Lovesexy!

kalelvisj said:

It is important and interesting, America can't really be mentioned without genocide, slavery, paranoia and a general wierdness that only America has. We are all race obsessed and if you don't believe me, talk to a foreigner and they will notice, at the same time we are all hypocrites, we all imitate each other and make love to each other and have children with each other. How can such things not be interesting in real life and in music? I don't think we'd have it any other way.

kalelvisj said:

I dig/liked Elvis from the time that I was kid so understand that. Let's be real 4 a moment. Do u have any IDEA why there wre so many positives comments about Elvis from all those Black entertainers? Elvis was good they acknowledged that but it would have been career SUISIDE 2 be quoted DISSING Elvis. There is more 2 these comments than u will EVER know.

Graycap23 said:

It's not just the comments, it's the influence, if you mean that by not imitating one of our greatest artists they would not have been as successful you are correct. Jackie Wilson covered Elvis from the git go, he also was an even bigger Al Jolson fan if that isn't ironic as hell.

It's a comparison of apples and oranges....

I do think that Elvis gets a lot of heat for not only being White, but a White Southerner. Many other White performers (from Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller to Eminem and Madaonna) have been highly influenced by Black musical styles, but none of them get raked over the coals like E does. Truly, this is "reverse racism" of the most egregious type

Graycap23 said:

You bring up a serious issue about the African American artists considering their audience/career when they make their statements about Elvis..

I don't have the dates for all of the quotes and am too overwhelmed with working with students and preparing final grades for this semester to dig them up now.

I do know that many of these statements were made in the 50's. And that the Jimi Hendrix drawing was not done for any sort of public display but was instead a very personal item of Mr. Hendrix's that became public relatively recently. I think some people, of all colors think that Elvis was a media darling or Justin Timberlake type pop star in the 50's. There is very few positive comments to be found about Elvis in the media from the 50's through hell most of his career. In fact most mainstream media sources denounced everything he did, his singing, his stage performances, everything. He was the "end of the world."

The claim that Elvis made the famous and completely debunked racist statement about African Americans is a clear indication that it would NOT have been career suicide for any artist to say what ever they wanted about Elvis. Some did. Frank Sinatra called him a talentless and vulgar thug. He also paid him 50,000 dollars for 2 1/2 songs 4 years later, so it was basically open season on Elvis until he came back from serving in the military.

A huge part of why the press/society in general was so harsh towards Elvis was his open embrace of African American culture. He not only acknowledged it, he openly celebrated it and talked about the open emotionality and spirituality that he found in the black community as a gift, something to be aspired to.

Being the son of a dirt poor share cropper in Tupelo, Mississippi it is quite possible that Elvis more closely identified with the African American community that he did with many of the strict white social circles/castes present in the 50's.

After his death many of the same black artists that praised him in the 50's did go on to say that they felt they were robbed of their share of the credit and riches, and that they were overshadowed by Elvis' fame. This is true, but it certainly wasn't Elvis' fault, because he never failed to acknowledge the genius of his early rock and roll peers and earlier influences.

In my opinion, Elvis' true legacy after all the dust settles will be much bigger than his role in the evolution of Rock and Roll music, it will be in his role as an integrator. He faced death threats and racial slurs and rather than cave into the social pressure, he continued to praise African American musicians and stayed true to his vision of a democratic musical world in which all musical fields were equal, from R & B to Blue grass, from opera to black spirituals, from white gospel to the blues.

Was the world Elvis emerged in racist? Yes. To me that doesn't undermine Elvis' achievements, it only makes them that much more profound.

I do have another question for you though...how do you know what more there is to these comments? And how do you know I don't have incite into what they mean. All either of us can do is read them through our own filters...I am not sure either of us can do more than take them at their face value, and weigh them against other comments by the same people. It has been 30 years since Elvis passed, and 53 years since he exploded into the airwaves of the 50's. That people are still debating his impact, and some artists are still citing his influence, that he is still so present in our culture says more about him than anything good or bad that can be stated in an online forum.

As always thanks for your thoughtful, insightful and honest feed back.

Hope some day we get caught up in another conversation on this board. Something a bit more fun like Darling Nicki vs Billy Jack Bitch.

Peace out and Lovesexy!

kalelvisj said:[quote]


I do have another question for you though...how do you know what more there is to these comments? [quote]



Short answer: I know some of these guys and what they say in PRIVATE is quite different than a sound bite. Believe me.

jasmine69 said:

What's not real? Hmmmmm!
Anything which doesn't transport you to another place or stimulate your mind and emotions! I'll be generous by saying 90% of Pop music just doesn't do it!!!
I don't like Rap either. But, it is a form of creative expression, even though it's musically void.

cant say, im a bigg ELVIS FAN and PRINCE FAN.
but ELVIS has more acting skills and movies out.
PRINCE has more music out.

SIRTONY said:

I really doubt prince has more music out, one of the major similarities of both is that they had an incredible workrate. With Prince, it's phenomenal because he does songwriting, production etc.., With Elvis it's amazing that he had such a huge body of work (great and terrible) People forget just how much the man worked his ass off, even throught the worst of times, in that way, he was like Prince, a force of nature who could not stop that drive inside. He had hundreds and hundreds of songs, performed before a myriad of audiences, made movies (mostly bad, but still work) He squeezed all of this work into a bit over 20 years, I think it's one of his most unsung praises, his work ethic.