Hello all! I rarely post on this site but come here often to enjoy the shared love of Prince and his music that is so alive here. I have been a Prince fan since Controversy. I am also an Elvis Presley fan and have been since I was able to put the needle on a record. I find it interesting and odd that Prince and Elvis so often cross paths in this forum, but I must admit that it makes perfect sense to me.

I do not think that it is a mistake that there are so many people who are fans of both. I don’t think that there are two more comparable figures in the history of Rock and Roll than Elvis and Prince. “Mascara covered eyes, high heeled boots, “vulgar” and sexually charged stage performances, lacey shirts, high collars, androgynous posturing, cocky masculine bravado, self effacing humor…” The list goes on and on and applies equally to Elvis and Prince. But those surface similarities are nothing compared to what these great men have achieved musically. Both embraced the music that filled the air around them and filtered it through their own experience and creativity to present the world with music that blurred the color lines in beautiful and explosive ways. Both broke socially accepted roles of man/woman and black/white. At the center of everything they did was the explosive element of intense sexuality and overwhelming spirituality. I can think of no other artists who had such a deep impact during the peak of their popularity than Elvis and Prince. Both influenced how people dressed, danced, thought and, well—f@&ked. .

This whole debate reminds me of a conversation that I had with a senior NCO when I was stationed at Ft Bragg, NC during the late 80’s early 90’s. My NCO and close friend told me about how when he was young, an entertainer had appeared on the scene that made him feel free to dress how ever he wanted, made him feel like it was okay to spend time getting his hair and MAKE UP just right before he went and how for the first time he felt free to go out and dance with out knowing the “next step.” Most importantly, the performer made him proud of his own culture. I went on to tell him about how my generation had finally found someone who had the same powerful impact. Of course he was talking about Elvis and I was talking about Prince. At the heart of his story was a concert he attended in Seattle in 1957. It would be years later when I went to the Seattle Music Experience that I would learn that it was the same concert that had had such a powerful impact on Jimi Hendrix. Oh, and my NCO was African American, Of course he would have never used that term, he often said he was still "Black and proud."

James Brown is quoted as calling Elvis his “Soul Brother.” To me the same can be said of Elvis and Prince. Prince has asked his listeners to strive for a colorblind world and just dance, to let the pain of history fall away and just love each other (“Race,” “D.M.S.R.”, heck…you all know all the songs…) In 1968 Earl Brown composed the song “If I Can Dream” based on things Elvis had said during conversations with Steve Binder during rehearsals for the 1968 Special. In that song Elvis pleads for a world where all “his brothers walk hand in hand” and the passion and sincerity in his voice is heart wrenching.

It seems that we are a long way from seeing the dreams of these two artists come true.

In my view, when all is said and done and the history books have enough time to look back honestly at the music of the 20th Century, Elvis and Prince will both stand out and above most other performers because of their color blind music and the way they freed the youth of their generation.

I will be honest with all of you, it took me so long to write this that I got logged out before I could post the comment and had to rewrite it. Trust me, the original version was like poetry. Sorry to have to give you the “second hand” version!!!

Peace out and lovesexy!!

After thinking this over I think I should have phrased it "Will Prince's popularity be as big as Elvis"

MantuaPharoah said:

we dont know for sure if elvis was racist or not we can only assume.but if i knew for sure he was i would definitely strongly dislike him.

elvis was very popular
he had black songwriters/ producers and took credit for it
he had good songs no doubt i love the more popualar known ones
but to me hes more of an icon then a artist
american people think he can do no bad but he was a blown up drug adict
in his later years and lost all his glamour.

Graycap23 said:

I think in time, perhaps over the centuries his legend will grow. I really don't think even the fans appreciate how remarkable Prince is, I mean just look at all the negative things being said about his music here.

DavidW said:

Love it!!!!


Some counterpoints to the above:

Elvis' version of Hound Dog was anything but watered down. As far as Hound Dog being an example of Elvis watering down anything, as much as I love Big Momma's version, there is little to make it stand out from any other blues song of the time. Big Momma Thornton's version of ound Dog also happened to be written AND produced by two white boys...Through modern ears, Elvis' version might sound tame, but at the time was the equivalent of heavy metal, industrial or the hardest hiphop of our time. It isn't fair to try to judge a song from the fifties impact based on how it sounds to modern ears. IF you think it is, play some classic Prince or MJ or U2 for a modern teenager...watch them shrug and look at you like your crazy. And that is only 20 or so years.

As far as Elvis only having "whitebread" listeners...please. Jimi, Sam Cooke, James Brown, Muhammad Ali, Jackie Wilson, )who really hit it big by doing his imitation of Elvis in Vegas,) Wilson Picket, Marvin Gaye, Prince (he didn't learn Jailhouse Rock or Teddy Bear by magical Osmosis), George Clinton( you should read his great essay about Elvis, George calls Elvis a sould brother) ...anyway...the list goes on and on.

As far as Elvis doing qualitive music after the 50's...Sure he had some music that was subpar compared to the standards he established between 54-62, but throughout his career he recorded beautiful and soulful music.

To put it in perspective. Elvis might have had the Clambake soundtrack (many bad soundtracks) but how do Prince's clunkers hold up these days. It is always possible to find a real gem in Princes lesser albums, but how fair do you think it would be to judge his career and impact by oh lets say...New Power Soul?

Someday we will all swing by some website for some musician and someone will post a topic comparing that artist to Prince..I hope when that happens he will be judged by the impact he had, not the color of his skin or the less than stellar parts of his career.

Some interesting omparisons between Elvis and Prince's career...

Elvis: 1954-1962: Biggest Star in the World, no question.
Prince: 1982-91; One of the Biggest and most influential stars, no question. (84-86 the biggest!)

Elvis: 62-67 (Still pretty successful, but quality falters and by '67 career in basement...still charts top 40 hits.

Prince: 92-2003) (Still pretty successful but dramatic falling off in quality and several career lowpoints...disappears from charts.

Elvis: '68 -73 (Return to performance started w/ 68 comeback special and starts performing in Las Vegas. Renewed mainstream popularity. Several top 10 hits. Plays to over a billion people in one live telecast from Hawaii...(tons of success stories during this time, too many to list in fact.)

Prince: 2004- present (Major comeback, RRHOF, Grammys, Musicology tour. No real radio success, but Album does very well (of course there is the selling it with concert tickets issue). 3121 Flop album (not talking about quality, just sales) Starts highly successfull run in Vegas.

Elvis: 73-present One long tour until he dies in 77. Fairly regular appearnces in top 40, but never regains momentum that peaked at beginning of '73 with Aloha tv special (which I never liked by the way...fucking boring). To this day still has occasional top selling single, and even gets hits on the air (A little less conversation...)

Prince...Still knocking them dead live, hasn't had a radio hit in too many years.

Just wanted to make the point that perhaps modern listeners shouldn't be so quick to jump on the bashing bandwagon.

Most young people these days see an old Prince clip and ask why he is dressed like Austin Powers...so keep some perspecitve people.

And really for crying out loud, regardless of your race, stop assuming you have the ability (OR RIGHT) to talk about how audiences 60 years ago "heard" the music of their time. Read. You will discover that Elvis was a hero in the African American Community in the 50's. Too tired to hit y'all with a bunch of quotes right now.

Racism is racism, and no matter who wields it, it is a weapon of hate. Just made that up myself...not bad for a slightly intoxicated and incredibly burned out professor.;..

Peace and lovesexy.

This arguement is atrting 2 sound like baseball. There all of the records set before Blacks could play are a joke. Some of the BEST players who ever played were in the Negro League.....but know one knows that. Elvis, had he played on a level playing field would have been just another guy back then.

Jerry Lee lewis, Chuck Berry, Lil Richard, Jackie Wilson and other ran rings around Elvis...and I dug Elvis but let's be REAL about it. A lot of his "history" is based on HYPE. That's a FACT.

kalelvisj said:

Why is it so hard to admit that Elvis was imitating Black music?

mozfonky said:

I think that what pisses people off about Princes music here is, how ,for example, on 3121 it's Prince saunding like Destinies Child or any of the current crop chart toppers! Up to Diamonds and Pearls it was Prince being Prince.

mozfonky said:

I think that what pisses people off about Princes music here is, how ,for example, on 3121 it's Prince saunding like Destinies Child or any of the current crop chart toppers! Up to Diamonds and Pearls it was Prince being Prince.

I'm finding the logic of the 'Elvis stole black music and made money he didn't deserve from it' cliche quite amusing. Why is it that when Elvis performed and recorded music influenced by both 'black' and 'white' music (whatever the hell that means in practice, as imo no 'race' can claim full credit for pioneering any music form, particularly in so hybridised a nation as the US - music is dialogue, not a monologue in all societies), he's supposed to be 'stealing', but when Duke Ellington, Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles play music influenced by white music, they are not 'stealing', they are 'influenced'?? Ellington and Wonder have both made European 'classical' influenced music, with Ellington's 'suites' of his later career, and Stevie's 'Pastime Paradise' and 'Village Ghetto Land' for starters and Ray did country music albums. Are they, 'racist thieves', out to take credit away from Beethoven, Mozart and co.??

None of the great musicians, be they white, black, native American (oh, and Elvis himself was something like one eighth native American) or any other, want to be 'ghetto-ised' into playing music they're 'expected' to play, because of their race or background - Jimi Hendrix is a classic example. His music embraces blues, rock, jazz, funk, classical, avante garde and flamenco styles among others. Did Jimi 'steal' classical and Spanish flamenco music from the Europeans? Of course not. That would be absurd. So why make Elvis a special case??

Further back in time, did the white country singers like Jimmy Rogers and Hank Williams (taught guitar by an anonymous black bluesman) 'steal' from black bluesmen, when the played 'black' blues or blues-like songs, which were in reality hybridised/ improvised versions of general 'folk' songs that were in the air way back. Were black bluesman like Muddy Waters 'stealing' from whites when they performed general popular tunes of the day back in Mississippi in the 1930s and '40s?? It's a wide misconception that those guys only played blues songs. Audiences wanted the 'radio hits' and traditional/ religious songs as well, not just the 'holy blues'.

From a musical standpoint, blues and country are almost identical, I remember Little Richard once said, country is the 'white man's blues'. They use the same chords, scales and rhythms. The only real difference is some of the lyrics and the attitude. They come from the same sources, and we can argue for the rest of time which bits came from Africa and which came from Irish and British folk music.

In short, everybody's been copying everybody since the beginning of time, so it's gotta cut both ways or not at all. Music is in the air, not in the blood. It's a by-product of the mix of people and the local/ regional/ national environment over a long period of time, and is therefore'owned' by everybody and nobody.

As to whether it was Elvis or Prince who last longest in the cultural memory, much as I love and respect Prince, he is over-rated by Prince fans (not surprisingly ), and Elvis' name and image, almost regardless of musical quality, will loom far larger in history. Both were assimilators of what happened in music up to the time they came through, but Elvis came up at a special time in pop culture history, and no matter what Prince may have done or might do in the future, he will never be viewed in quite that way. Whether that is historical accident or injustice in a matter of personal opinion.

Arguably, Prince came in at the end of the cycle that began with r n'b and r n'r. Also, Elvis' used only 'real instruments', which makes for a certain timeless quality to his music, while Prince, with his modish '80s synths and drum machines, however inventive, is sounding more and more dated imo. Prince, among others, was the brilliant full stop to that classic era, that was followed only by more pap pop and hip hop - which is mostly 'talkin' loud and sayin' nothin' imo.

Peace.
[Edited 5/2/07 12:48pm]
[Edited 5/2/07 12:51pm]

dseann said:

Do your homework son, he did fantastic music in gospel, country, and rock before he checked out. Too many songs to name really, so I won't, if you really want to do something other than badmouth, go check for yerself.

mozfonky said:

Dude, I'm never going to waste my time looking up anything by Elvis, even worse I'm not looking for anything in gospel or country music(my two least favorite genres). Fucking waste of my time.

Hell yeah Elvis stold our shit

Makavelli99 said:

MMMM even black music has white influence. The lanuage- "English" which is European. Many of the instruments were made by white people.

kpowers said:

Elvis and Justin stold our shit plain and simple.

Makavelli99 said:

Once again, it's not 100% black to start off with.

kpowers said:

Elvis and Justin stold our shit plain and simple.

kpowers said:

100% style, they like our swagger

They'll be stealing hip hop soon. In a couple of years i'll be hearing that
Marshall Matters aka mnm invented hip hop. I'm just keeping it real.

I think your taking my comment way out of context. all i'm saying is don't lie about it and say you invented it. i'm not a racist person at all. I dig some doobie brothers, bon jovi is off the hook, santana no doubt, many other musicians that are not black that i really respect and appreciate

I think your taking my comment way out of context. all i'm saying is don't lie about it and say you invented it. i'm not a racist person at all. I dig some doobie brothers, bon jovi is off the hook, santana no doubt, many other musicians that are not black that i really respect and appreciate