I must seriously be trying to avoid grading papers lately to post on here as much as I have the last few days. While this is the only thread I have been posting in I have been catching up on reading a lot of the other threads. Still, I should be grading essays tonight, but just can't resist playing devils advocate here like I do in my classes.

If Prince is so unheralded due to his race...then tell me three white artists from his generation of peers black or white that get the props he gets? What white artist is getting all of this credit and praise from 1978 to ...well now that should be going to Prince.

Prince is brilliant, no one denies it. The only person who can be blamed for Princes "failures" is for the most part Prince himself.

I love Prince and honestly feel that no other artist comes close to his stature (Ok height joke intended) in the music business. It seems that every article I read about him calls him a genius. He is often praised for his wide range of impact on music from rock to alternative to dance and on and on. So when someone says Prince will never get the proper praise due him because he isn't white...I just wonder what they are basing it on.

Also a big fan of M.J. back in the day. Far more Off the Wall than Thriller, call me old fashioned...but regardless of the phenomenal sells of Thriller and his other albums Michael still hasn't actually sold as many records as Elvis. His individualalbums sold far more, but when Elvis was at his peak in the 50's singles were what really counted, and NO ONE has matched Elvis' sells when it comes to singles. Elvis sold millions and millions of records at a time when there was no global market and no MTV. People bought record players just so they could play Elvis records at home. WHile M.J. has several albums that have sold in the 10's or millions, elvis has 81 albums that have sold gold or platinum. The RIAA that audits sells is still going through record company files to try to get accurate numbers because they can't get an accurate count to give him the "gold" he is entitled to. Add to that the 51 singles that have gone gold or platinum...

Anyway, no need to list the achievments of any of these great artists. They are easy to find for anyone who really wants to find them.

As LittlemissG stated a few posts back this isn't Elvis.org, so I will end this post by getting back to the original thread question:

Is Prince better than Elvis? Music like beauty is in the eye, or ear of the beholder. I love them both and if I was only allowed to have one song with me on a desert island, It would be something by either Prince or Elvis. I hate the idea of even having to choose.

I love them both.

As to the question as to whether Prince will have a lasting legacy that reflects his impact, I think so. I think he is in many ways the most acknowledged artist of our generation, so I have no doubt that history will always turn a respectful and joyous eye on his body of work.

God I love this place!!!

Peace out and lovesexy!!! (still the best concert I ever saw, by anybody....EVER)
[Edited 4/22/07 21:06pm]

vainandy said:

i agree, prince is very talented but i can't see him taking the throne but time will tell.if michael jackson can still make amazing music and continue his legacy i believe michael can as you said "knock elvis off his throne"

but i still think michael and prince are better than elvis but ya know the general public,they never wann let elvis go or change his status.




btw did anyone catch american idol wednesday,celine dion sang with elvis
[Edited 4/26/07 21:59pm]

not even close!

mimi07 said:

R U kidding me?
It damn near knocked me off my thrown.

Elvis is the most overrated musician in history. Can anyone name 5 good Elvis songs? His early music was a watered down version of the blues; sterilized for the masses.Listen to the original version of Hound Dog. It's raunchy, gutbucket blues. Then listen to Elvis' version. So snappy and cute.
Elvis was to blues what New Kids On the Block were to rap. The only people who liked Elvis in the 50's were white bread teenagers. After the 50's does anyone except Elvis nuts think that he did anything good?
His 50's stuff was influential simply because it turned on white America to an acceptable version of R and B or blues.I.E.watered down black music not performed by blacks.
Elvis was overrated, watered down,white bread, wimpy blues in the 50's. Absolute unclassifiable garbage in the 60's and 70's.

DavidW said:

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in the org...

DavidW said:

it's called being a major HATER!

theodore said:

This is exactly how I feel. I will love PRINCE AND HIS MUSIC until the day I die.

Yeah!

DavidW said:

Some counterpoints to the above:

Elvis' version of Hound Dog was anything but watered down. As far as Hound Dog being an example of Elvis watering down anything, as much as I love Big Momma's version, there is little to make it stand out from any other blues song of the time. Big Momma Thornton's version of ound Dog also happened to be written AND produced by two white boys...Through modern ears, Elvis' version might sound tame, but at the time was the equivalent of heavy metal, industrial or the hardest hiphop of our time. It isn't fair to try to judge a song from the fifties impact based on how it sounds to modern ears. IF you think it is, play some classic Prince or MJ or U2 for a modern teenager...watch them shrug and look at you like your crazy. And that is only 20 or so years.

As far as Elvis only having "whitebread" listeners...please. Jimi, Sam Cooke, James Brown, Muhammad Ali, Jackie Wilson, )who really hit it big by doing his imitation of Elvis in Vegas,) Wilson Picket, Marvin Gaye, Prince (he didn't learn Jailhouse Rock or Teddy Bear by magical Osmosis), George Clinton( you should read his great essay about Elvis, George calls Elvis a sould brother) ...anyway...the list goes on and on.

As far as Elvis doing qualitive music after the 50's...Sure he had some music that was subpar compared to the standards he established between 54-62, but throughout his career he recorded beautiful and soulful music.

To put it in perspective. Elvis might have had the Clambake soundtrack (many bad soundtracks) but how do Prince's clunkers hold up these days. It is always possible to find a real gem in Princes lesser albums, but how fair do you think it would be to judge his career and impact by oh lets say...New Power Soul?

Someday we will all swing by some website for some musician and someone will post a topic comparing that artist to Prince..I hope when that happens he will be judged by the impact he had, not the color of his skin or the less than stellar parts of his career.

Some interesting omparisons between Elvis and Prince's career...

Elvis: 1954-1962: Biggest Star in the World, no question.
Prince: 1982-91; One of the Biggest and most influential stars, no question. (84-86 the biggest!)

Elvis: 62-67 (Still pretty successful, but quality falters and by '67 career in basement...still charts top 40 hits.

Prince: 92-2003) (Still pretty successful but dramatic falling off in quality and several career lowpoints...disappears from charts.

Elvis: '68 -73 (Return to performance started w/ 68 comeback special and starts performing in Las Vegas. Renewed mainstream popularity. Several top 10 hits. Plays to over a billion people in one live telecast from Hawaii...(tons of success stories during this time, too many to list in fact.)

Prince: 2004- present (Major comeback, RRHOF, Grammys, Musicology tour. No real radio success, but Album does very well (of course there is the selling it with concert tickets issue). 3121 Flop album (not talking about quality, just sales) Starts highly successfull run in Vegas.

Elvis: 73-present One long tour until he dies in 77. Fairly regular appearnces in top 40, but never regains momentum that peaked at beginning of '73 with Aloha tv special (which I never liked by the way...fucking boring). To this day still has occasional top selling single, and even gets hits on the air (A little less conversation...)

Prince...Still knocking them dead live, hasn't had a radio hit in too many years.

Just wanted to make the point that perhaps modern listeners shouldn't be so quick to jump on the bashing bandwagon.

Most young people these days see an old Prince clip and ask why he is dressed like Austin Powers...so keep some perspecitve people.

And really for crying out loud, regardless of your race, stop assuming you have the ability (OR RIGHT) to talk about how audiences 60 years ago "heard" the music of their time. Read. You will discover that Elvis was a hero in the African American Community in the 50's. Too tired to hit y'all with a bunch of quotes right now.

Racism is racism, and no matter who wields it, it is a weapon of hate. Just made that up myself...not bad for a slightly intoxicated and incredibly burned out professor.;..

Peace and lovesexy.

DavidW said:

When Elvis redid songs in the early day, almost without exception, his version eclipsed the original. Little Richard covers not withstanding, he almost always improved the music, if you don't believe me, go listen to how run of the mill some of the songs were that he covered, songs that no one would even remember today had he not "goosed 'em up" as he once said. After the 50's he did some music that closely paralelled anything he did in the fifties. And of course, production improved over the years as did his own voice (from a technical perspective) Suspicious Minds is one of the great singles of all time and that was done in the late 60's, he also did plenty of great music that has been totally ignored over the years. People forget how big of a catalogue he had, he did hundreds of tunes. Some of my favorite E tunes are obscure ones. And he did do fantastic music all the way up to his death, if you don't believe me, go watch "Hurt" on you tube and tell me you ain't moved. Elvis was special for many reasons but maybe his greatest gift was his ability to communicate through music to people of all persuasions. He had a magical charisma of course, but his voice alone had something that grabbed people. I tell you, my friends who hate Elvis will sometimes stop and listen when I'm playing an Elvis tune, that is a unique gift.

Are you kidding??

Why do people here always want have Prince vs "Every Non-musican dance act singer" Topics?

Of course Prince is better then Elvis!! Does anyone need details on this simple topic?

Comparing Elvis 2 Prince is just plain D U M B.

Next I guess U will be comparing Paris Hilton 2 Aretha Franklin.

If I was alive during the 50'S/60'S time I would be a big Elvis fan (as well as a little Richard fan). Great voice and stage pressence. Love Prince, wouldn't be here if I wasn't. Both are great so no one is better than the other.

DavidW said:

It was the 50's. Different time, different place. It's easy now to look at the past and put it down. I can name more than 5 Elivis songs that I like by Elvis- Jail House rock, love me tender, Burning love, way down, suspious minds, it's now or later, heart break hotel, moody blue, always on my mind, blue suede shoes, little sister, little less conversastion, theres more but I was suppose to name just 5 right.

Why does one have to be better than the other? Like many people have already said, they each have their own respective legacies. Although, If you ask me, I prefer Prince because I infact like his music better than I do the music of Elvis (and I do listen to Elvis). But a big problem I see on these kinds of threads. Too many people confuse INFLUENCE and BETTER. Think of it this way, say 1976 at your high school a guy runs the 400m dash in 49 seconds. Track isn't realyl big at your school but when this guy runs his ass off like that it gets people inspired to run and such. So now more people are coming out to track and ever since your team as thrived. Then in 2006 I join the track team and I run 47 seconds in the 400. Does that make me a better runner than the other guy, yes. Do I have more of an influence on people, no. The moral of the story in which relates to this thread and all the other Prince vs. michael/beatles/etc is that people dont associate better based on the musical catalog, they base it off album sales, popularity, influence and all that. As I see it (and I'm probably wrong but w/e), if you must compare musicians, and deciding which one is better I think you should base it solely on the music, save the bigger influence and all that for another thread.

DavidW said:

he is very overrated but i do understand that he was very influential and a great performer. i am not a hater but i agree on that his best work was in the 50's and after that his hardcore fans just stuck with him.in the 60's i guess he was still ok but in his later years in the 70's he was a joke

wlcm2thdwn said:

Agreed

mimi07 said:

Interesting response. Ok first of all I love all of Princes stuff. But they way you looked at Elvis's career don't most people who are not into Prince view it the same way. They say yeah "I like Prince's early stuff in the 80's but his laters stuff wasn't all that good. That changing his name to a symbol was a big joke." They say that because I hear that alot (but once again thats not my view).

If Prince was better than Elvis then the first thing most people would think about are his hits and not his lack of height. The majority always rules, it's not difficult people! I still love you Prince,
[Edited 4/28/07 16:08pm]

mozfonky said:

Elvis was original? Was he original for white audiences, because he didn't do anything that the black performers whom he watched as a kid weren't already doing. I'm not knocking Elvis, but you have to put things in perspective. Elvis is a white American icon, so his legacy will live on. There are black artists from Elvis's era who were more talented than him, but did not get the recognition, because they were black. Is that Elvis' fault, no. I am not taking anything away from the man, he did his thing and he did that thing well. However, understanding the depths of racism helps me to understand why Elvis will always be heralded as "the king" despite several extraordinary black talents who could easily claim that moniker.

On the other hand, Prince is the most talented, self-contained artist of all time. People can debate whether there are better singers, better songwriters/composers, better lyricists, better producers, better guitarists, better bassists, better piano/keys players, better live performers, etc, but can anyone point to all those amazing talents in one person? On sheer multi-talent alone, there has NEVER been an artist like Prince. Then you add all the other stuff that makes Prince who he is, and the answer to this question should be obvious. Prince's creative output (diversity and volume) and longevity alone, put him in a league of his own.
[Edited 4/29/07 1:04am]

No.
[Edited 4/29/07 2:59am]

bellanoche said:

I agree. Surely, Elvis is the best ENTERTAINER of all time, but he wasn't very gifted as a musician, and the 98% of his songs were covers or songs written by professionals songwriters.

mozfonky said:

Good to see someone on here with the real knowledge . 'Hurt' is one of my favourate Elvis songs and def. one of his late-period classics - The song is one of several interpretations Elvis did of from the repertoire of the fine black early soul singer Roy Hamilton, who was one of Elvis' true idols. 'Hurt' might sound cheesy to some, but with that incredible near-operatic voice Elvis could muster when on form at the end of his career, it almost brings tears to the eyes. And then there's that incredible footage of Elvis at the piano in '77 belting out 'Unchained Melody' like his life depended on it. And don't get me started on the late-period 'How Great Thou Art' renditions. Pavarotti got nothin' on EP!

Imo Elvis is one of the prime examples in music of the Martin Luther King doctrine of racial integration. Prince learned stuff from Elvis, as he did from other artists as diverse as James Brown, Joni Mitchell and the Rolling Stones. Prince is over-rated on here, as this is a P fansite and rightly so.

So surprise surprise, Elvis wasn't perfect; he ate too many cheeseburgers, he got kicks out of prescription drugs, was a serial womaniser, he had problems dealing with reality at times, he was too often weak-willed with his management, he didn't fully understand his true significance as an entertainer and icon, and arguably wasted his later years in his private life on an ultimately terminal lifestyle.

But even at the end, he still worked damn hard, and recorded some performances that most singers can only dream of. I prefer his late '60s and'70s music to the earlier stuff, great as that was too, as Elvis' voice was better and richer, he was more experienced of the meaning of the words he was singing and the songs were often better. And not often mentioned, but from 1969 - 1977, he had one of the best live bands in the world at his beck and call, with some fine country/ rock n' roll players (and an orchestra and at least one gospel quartet onstage) and, if you listen around, they could even bring on some convincing funk too if needed! .

Another lesser known fact is that, after his first big hit, RCA basically let Elvis produce and arrange the music on all his '50s RCA sides himself, so in a way he is one of the most successful uncredited record producers of all time. And also on his later sessions, when in the mood, he often acted as de facto producer, and was always totally into recording with a live rhythm section all together in the studio. He generally disliked over-dubbing, as it felt 'fake' to him. He oversaw his own mix of 'Suspicious Minds' in 1969, and was outraged when the released version was quite drastically different to the mix he made and loved. When truly engaged, he knew and cared about how his music should sound.

Overall, Elvis made more great music than most and was by most accounts of those who saw him in the fifties and from 1968-73-ish, one of the most magnetic performers of all time, as well as imo being one of the great soul singers of all time. And I'd say he did and still does far more good in the world than many politicians and religious figures (not that I'm saying he is a religious figure, tho some view him as such!!).

To be honest, Elvis doesn't need anyone to defend him imo. So many writers and commentators have tried to destroy his image, cast aspersions on various aspects of his private life and so on. They thought his reputation and image was made of clay only to find he was made of iron. His continued posthumous popularity and the number of posts on this thread only reflect the fact that he is still in some ways relevant, not-to-mention controversial. The Elvis phenomenon is still alive and remains as complex and controversial as ever, it seems. No amount of attacking and Elvis fan-baiting and point-scoring will change these facts.

For the haters, I think there's some very interesting and enlightening posts from various orgers on this thread, but in the end, it's only a game to say 'x is better than y' when it's all in the eye of the beholder. Elvis happens to be my favourate singer. He may not be to your taste. The rest is a dog chasing its own tail.

Peace.
[Edited 4/29/07 9:23am]
[Edited 4/29/07 9:26am]

Elvis was a white boy who jacked Black music in America during profound racism and got paid. Stop romanticizing that fool.

JonnyApplesauce said:

You are the very first person to ever say that, thanks for the input.

I only had 2 musicians that I loved during the 60's. James Brown and Elvis. I really dig Elvis but comparing him 2 Prince is just NOT a good idea.

Just my 2 cents. There is no need 2 compare really.

JoeTyler said:

I guess that is relative, because I personally never found Elvis to be a great entertainer, let alone the best. There are so many more talented musicians/performers whom he copied, but who due to racism would never receive the accolades that Elvis did. From that era, I would much rather watch JB, Little Richard or Chuck Berry perform, but that's just me. I found Elvis to be an ok performer, I think all the screaming girls and censor hoopla distorted the perception of his performances...all that glitters ain't gold. He had the style and flair to woo certain audiences, but I was never impressed. I always felt that if Elvis was black he would have been "just another" entertainer.

kpowers said:

Hows the weather on Mount Olympus?