They sold, but not on the scale of Purple Rain. They weren't even close to being the best sellers of the year they were released.
ATWIAD sold a lot--mostly off of the vapors of Purple Rain. The casual fans abandoned ship on that album. 1999 sold a lot more after Purple Rain than it did before. maybe went platinum twice.




Actually, due to how they counted the 3disc set, it went multiplatinum.
[Edited 2/12/07 11:03am]

Imago said:

Musicology never went to number 1 in the States, it got to number 3 as I recall.

skywalker said:

Thing is, those classics sold pretty well in other countries especially Europe, as he broadened his sound he was embraced more over here, so his over-all global sales were still pretty high. Neither Musicology or 3121 made much impact in the USA or abroad. Musicology sold 1 million in the US without the concert add-ons, 3121 half that. Pretty good for Prince in some respects - but compare it to MJs Invincible album, much criticised but sold 8 million (not sure if that was world-wide or just US). All his fans, in spite of everything, pick up the new cd. Not all once-time fans of Prince do or he would sell higher surely.

Correct. However, number 3 for an artist so off the radar as Prince was = HUGE commercial/mainstream "comeback". Musicology was everywhere Spring/Summer 2004. Magazines,TV,biggest tour of the year. If that's not a sign of tremendous mainstream "popularity" I don't know what is.

Please. Europe slept on every Prince album from For You to 1999-and even Purple Rain to a certain extent. Princemania didn't hit Europe until he started touring there almost constantly in the mid to late 80's.




Wrong. As I described above, in the USA, Musicology had a huge impact and 3121 debuted at #1 and nominated for 5 Grammy's.




You said it right--pretty good for a Prince album. He never sold MJ numbers except for Purple Rain. Again, sales is not a great indicator of popularity these days. Especially for Prince who, when arguably at his artistic peak, only sold a few million copies of Sign O' The Times in the US.

skywalker said:

Ermm, you seem to be repeating exactly what I said, that Europe came on board after Purple Rain and those albums that didn't sell huge in the US sold pretty decently outside of the US.

But I can't agree that Musicology had a HUGE impact, it had an impact, but disappeared down the chart very quickly after a few weeks. 3121 dropped even faster after it's number 1. No singles of either album threatened the billboard chart to any extent. They just weren't popular enough for people to actually purchase them.

I agree an album can be great without selling huge amounts (and can also be not great and sell huge amounts!) but as a mark of popularity, the sales is the only marker we have, after all, if you haven't bought the album it's likely you haven't heard the album, right? It's a guide to how many people have heard the album, how many wanted to hear the album they went out and bought it, ie how popular it was.

I always thought the only thing that 3121 being nominated for 5 grammies proved was that the Grammies are entirely inconsistent, Prince has had far better albums completely ignored, and though I like the album I did not think it deserved so many nominations.

3121's number 1 was of course was achieved on the back of the private concert promotion - which goes back to my original point, Prince's current popularity is built almost entirely on his reputation as a live performer, the Musicology Tour success included, it is not on the back of album success, and his live success is not helping his latest album sales very much, only his greatest hits collections.
[Edited 2/12/07 12:10pm]

theodore said:

Well... It's not much fun for me to like Prince by myself because if I ever want to talk about him or something, no one really cares... They just say, "Oh, that's cool."

RUHip2TheJive said:

But U can always come 2 the org

Were you in the United States in 2004? If not then I can see why you didn't witness the resurgance in Prince that was the summer of 2004. He was everywhere and the tour was MASSIVE. I am not talking simply about chart success, I am talking about cultural impact. Prince was THE hottest artist/musician when that tour was happening. He was on all 3 music networks simultaneously, and he had his 1st Rollingstone cover in years---that is the truest sign of that "taste of the moment" popularity that this entire thread is about.




I disagree. Tons of people hear albums without buying the albums. It's called file sharing and it's rampant. I haven't bought Justin Timberlake's latest album, but I've heard the whole thing. Furthermore, sales is NOT the only marker that we have. Example: Pussy Control is a WELL known Prince song. However, it was never a single, and never received heavy radio rotation. Interesting that a HUGE portion of people know the song.


Fine--I agree that Prince has had far better albums and that the Grammy's are inconsistent. That being said, it IS a barometer to measure "popularity" and mainstream success. Prince being nominated for 5 awards is nothing to sneeze at. Hell, he just WON a Golden Globe and played the Superbowl to one of the biggest TV audiences ever. Popularity is being well known---Prince is there. What are you arguing about?


Who cares what drives his current popularity? That's not the argument that I was making at all. The point is this: Right now, Prince is career is at one of the "hottest" points that it has ever been. Regardless of radio play, or record sales (which have rarely been astronomical proportions) Prince is more popular now than he has been since, arguably, 1991.

I think that people have this misconception that in the 1980's Prince was everywhere and that everyone loved him. The fact is Prince had/has a loyal following who support him. He wasn't everywhere in the 80's. He was viewed as mysterious and weird and he didn't have the level of respect that he has now. By in large, people thought he was a freak. Purple Rain created a HUGE spike in his popularity in the US, but it had burned out by 1986-he was back to being an artist that was too far out for MASS appeal. Fact is: Prince's career HAS ALWAYS ebbed and flowed in terms of mass appeal/popularity. For every Purple Rain, there was an Under the Cherry Moon. For every Batman, there was a Graffiti Bridge. Right now, his popularity in the USA at one of it's peaks in his career and it's not driven by radio or hit singles. Deal with it.
[Edited 2/12/07 14:56pm]

I find it funny you accept Grammy nominations are inconsistent but still argue that they are a barometer for popularity but sales are a what, a complete lie? Yes, file sharing has become rampant in in the last 6 or 7 years, but it effects all artists and their album sales equally, since we can't calculate those illegal copies, copies sold legitimately is all we have to gauge popularity in a universally accepted manner.

Personally, I don't know anyone who knows of Pussy Control outside of Prince fans. Does that cancel out your point? Basing popularity on your personal experience is not evidence, it's just an opinion.

You argue that Prince had/has a loyal following who support him. And yet, his album sales fluctuate wildly, if they were truly loyal his fans would buy each new album as it comes out, but clearly this is not the case, otherwise the sales would be consistently above a certain level. Musicology sold 1 million copies legitimately - 3121 dropped to 500 thousand in the US. So that's 500 thousand people who weren't impressed enough with Musicology enough to be interested in the next album. Yes album sales are down these days, but that applies to all acts, and even comparitive to other performers he is not selling that great.

Who cares what drives his current popularity? Well, I do, and this is the argument I'm making. I'm not arguing that Prince isn't popular right now, I stated originally he clearly is, my point has always been that what has propelled him to this popularity is his reputation as a live performer, whereas in the 80s and early 90s his catchy singles and great albums propelled him to popularity more. He may be popular as a live act right now, but that is not being transferred into sales of his current music. He could release an album tomorrow, at the height of this new-found popularity, and I would bet the best it could do is scrape upto the 500 thousand mark in the US - which is not really much if you consider the size of the US. And really, outside the US, there isn't any hype about Prince, because it has almost entirely been US tv shows he's done broadcast only in the US and only seen by fans purposely looking for the vids over the internet. So you can't argue he's globally popular anymore, at the very least, as far as music sales - and yet I'm sure any tour outside of the US would sell out. Because, as keep saying, of his live reputation.

He's always been popular to me

This is what I am, and have continually, been saying: Sales are NOT the ONLY barometer of "popularity" as you seem to be claiming. Award nominations (and wins) are an indicator of "popularity" as is having HIGHEST grossing tours, general word of mouth, and media coverage. Since 2004 Prince has had an album go multiplatinum, with the HIGHEST grossing tour of the year, the next album debuted at #1, went gold, and was nominated for 5 Grammy's. Not to mention the various magazine covers/tv shows/hype that went with all that.Point is, he's decided to step into the mass media spotlight again and has been on the public's lips like crazy. In the USA, Prince is riding a wave of popularity that he has not seen for a long time--not since the early to mid 90's anyway. No, His songs aren't saturating the radio like it's 1984,however,that fact alone doesn't negate his popularity, nor do his album sales.



Exactly--everyone's sales are way down. Consider this: Parade ONLY sold 1 million copies in the US in 1986. That's only two years after THE PEAK of Prince's commercial juggernaut Purple Rain. Considering the fact that it is 20 years later, music sales are horrible all around, and Prince is 48---3121 going gold isn't anything to be ashamed of. Point is- in his so called "hey day" Prince sometimes barely squeaked out 1 million in US sales. The 90's were worse. Considering this--his record sales for his last albums have been fine.



Well what the hell are you basing your opinions on? That you don't hear Prince on the radio? That your friends aren't into him? That you didn't experience Princemania in 2004? That's personal experience.Go to any club in the USA and when Pussy Control comes on everyone knows the words. You have not experienced this personally?


Uh, how many copies of Musicology were sold on the tour? Did Musicology debut at #1? Was Musicology nominated for any major awards? What is your point? In the US Lovesexy was a flop--did that negate Prince's "popularity" in your eyes? Did Prince fail to be popular in 1988?

Also, Prince regularly sells and average between 500,000 and 1 million. Look at yearly USA sales figures for Come, The Gold Experience, Lovesexy, Parade, Dirty Mind, 1999, etc. There are only a few years when Prince sold more than between 500,000 and 1million.

Bottom line: Prince is riding a wave of newfound mass media "popularity": Look up the sales figures for The Rainbow Children and NEWS and compare them to Musicology and 3121.




Look, I've said it SEVERAL times now. Sales is NOT the only gauge for "popularity". I can tell that sales is VERY important to you, but it's not the only barometer to measure by.




Fine. Look up US album sales. Look up how many albums Dirty Mind sold in 1980. Look up how many 1999 sold in 1982 (the year it was released). Look up how many copies PArade sold in 1986. Look up how many copies Sign O' The Times sold in 1987. Look at Lovesexy in 1988. Prince was NOT ever at the top of the sales heap except for 1984. The other years he was getting outsold by Madonna, Tears for Fears, Bobby Brown, Def Leppard,etc. Those were all more "popular" than Prince. Does that bother you? Robbie Williams doesn't sell shit in the USA. Who cares?



And there you go. You torpedoed the whole thing. Prince would sell out anywhere he went. He is MASSIVELY popular. Globally.Read your italicized quote-you said it yourself. You care for the reason why--I do not. I don't care if he IS popular at all. Part of me wants to take it back to 1998 when I could just cruise to Paisley Park and watch the world's most famous "underground artist" do his thing. Fact is--Prince stepped back into the mainstream again and is in the spotlight. Sure, it's in the USA, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time before this new era of purplemania comes to your town.Back in the day the live rep is what mattered the most. If you want someone who gets massive radio play listen to Justin Timberlake--I bet he couldn't sell out anywhere in the world that he wanted. Hell, he couldn't even sell out Minneapolis. What's that say about "popularity" and the charts/radio?
[Edited 2/12/07 18:55pm]

it's not a new popularity.
prince is using his old himself to promote.

ratt said:

Of course. Everyone does to some extent. Do you think Purple Rain would have been what it was without 1999? Hell, MJ was using his old self and his past with his bros,MOTOWN 25, to unleash Billie Jean on the world. Even with Thriller he still was with his bros on tour. Do you think Off the Wall and Thriller would have had the same exact appeal if The JAckson 5 had not come before? Speaking as a geek, I am positive that Empire Strikes Back would have flopped had Star Wars not come first.

As far as Prince goes, yeah he has 30 years of music legacy to draw people in. So what? He played Purple Rain at the Superbowl, but the whole performance was fresh because Prince at the Superbowl was new. Building on your fanbase and on your past---It is what both established and new artists do. Look at the Police. Look at U2---you cannot tell me that folks go to their show hoping not to hear Joshua Tree material.
[Edited 2/12/07 20:43pm]

This was pretty cool....

I was at he gym tonight. This dude working out on the machine next to me, about 18-20 y/o . had his ipod on ..cranked.... listening to the song... Purple Rain. could hear it plain as day..i almost cried....

skywalker said:

Geez, I've only been saying simply this: 1. Prince is only on everyone's lips right now in the US not the rest of the world as he used to be.
2. This is because his current popularity is based on his live reputation, and since he hasn't been outside of the US in 4 years or so, his albums alone are having little to no impact in the rest of the world without performing live to back them up.
3. He is globally popular as a live performer but no longer a singles/albums act, when he actually chooses to perform outside of the US.

I've just been differentiating the type of popularity he has now as compared with back in his heyday, and I think it is very clear it is a different type.

I hear you. As I said before, during the height of 1999, and Purple Rain, Prince wasn't on everyone's lips on Europe either. So your claim of"used to be" is erroneous.



Right. His popularity IS based on his live rep. So what? Why is having a hit tour that somehow "less than" having a hit single? Again, it's not like 1999 set Europe on fire. It wasn't until he toured there that he was embraced in Europe. Also, Prince didn't have a #1 single in the UK until The Most Beautiful Girl in the World. no?



Again, so what? Why does his popularity have to be based on singles/albums? Used be that bands had to support their music through touring, not mass media hype. The fact that Prince is known as the baddest live performer around does not erode or negate his popularity. Here in the US it's rarely been higher--what do you think's going to happen when he comes to Europe?





Okay. Perhaps Prince's popularity is not the radio based/ teeny bopper kind. That's not the point. You seems to be bothered by the fact that his new popularity hasn't hit Europe and that it it based on his live performances. I say--who cares what his popularity is based on? Thanks for the good conversation and peace.

skywalker said:

Damn Skywalker...take it easy on the guy...lol...You are killing him...

Imago said:

My husband came home one day last week telling me about an interview he'd heard on the radio with a college professor who did a study of Prince's music. Apparently this professor claimed that his study showed that Prince's musical talent was on the level of Chopin, Beethovan, Mozart, and would one day be taught as one of the great musical talents of our time. I've been trying to find this study online to post here, but haven't been able to find anything about it.

LittleRedCorvette said:

Did this professor ever hear Poom Poom?

skywalker said:

You seem to think I am doing Prince down because I've pointed his popularity this time around is different than what his popularity was based on in the past. That is your error. I am not doing him down, I'm simply pointing out it is different this time. So what? So nothing. I'm simply pointing out it is different this time. Different does not equal bad; nowhere have I said it is not an accomplishment this time around either. I'm not attacking Prince, just intellectually disecting what has made him popular this time around.

Why do I feel like I am repeating myself?

As it goes, I do think he was on everyone's lips when Purple Rain was massive and the singles were high in the charts, as much as now. I don't know how you can say he wasn't, but anyway, that's my opinion of what it felt like at the time. No, Prince didn't have a number 1 before TMBGITW in the UK, but he had a steady load of well charting singles and albums, even before he had any impact with a tour here which wasn't until the Lovesexy and subsequent tours. So your idea that it was only when he toured here he was embraced and not on the strength of albums and singles is erroneous.

Yes, he has always been popular in my heart, No.1

Okay, why keep on with your rant about how Prince's poularity matters to you?



Because we keep going in circles. We are just nitpicking on something we essentially agree on.



Didn't you tell me that basing info on personal experience is just an opinion? Why don't you show me some UK charts/sales for Prince from 1978-1985 and then get back to me about how you "felt" at the time.



Prince toured Europe before Lovesexy. As far as his "steady load" of charting singles and albums--please find them and let me know. I am curious.



No my idea was that Prince was not embraced by Europe when he was rising to his peak in the US (1980-1984).

I don't care whether Prince is "popular" or not. And honestly...the day he courts teenagers musically is the day he loses me.

skywalker said:

hmmm love4oneanother?????

It doesn't matter to me. I never said it did. It is the topic of the thread we are discussing, that is all.




Yes. That's why I said "That's my opinion", meaning that my opinion is every bit as valid as yours even though we offer completely opposite views. But both are not evidence.



At no point have I been talking abou the period pre-Purple Rain. As I said in one of my initial posts, all I said was that the UK/Europe came on board mainly with and after PR and those classics like Parade, Sign and Lovesexy that did not do well in the States cemented his popularity over here and did rather well.





Fair enough: I'm speaking from a mainly UK knowledge (although of course it is in Europe) and I don't really keep track of data from the other countries, it's interesting but too much for me to take on. Prince did one gig in the UK in '81 for the Dirty Mind tour, then it wasn't until the Parade tour he returned (3 dates) then next was the Lovesexy tour. He did tour some of Europe with the Sign O' The Times tour but not the UK, but altogether he did only 52 dates in Europe in total, 34 of them being Sign shows, previous to the Lovesexy tour.

As far as singles, he had 15 top 40 singles in the UK previous to Lovesexy's Alphabet St., starting with 1999 in '83.

As far as albums, 1999 was the first to chart, reaching 30, Purple Rain reached 7, ATWIAD reached 5, Parade reached 4, Sign reached 4, I think that's a steady load of charting singles and albums, don't you? Lovesexy went straight into number 1 in May '88. He didn't do his first Lovesexy concert in the UK until 2 months later in July, which further supports my view it was his albums and singles alone making him popular in the UK, not his touring.




Eh? As I said before, at no point did I think we were talking about his relatively unsuccessful pre-Purple Rain era, we have been talking about when he became big and popular globally and why that was. I've been arguing it was because of his catchy singles and great albums from PR on, and you've been arguing that his live touring has always been intricately involved. To go back and quote you from one of your earlier posts:



I think I've proved from the facts and figures I've supplied that is not the case at least as far as the UK is involved as he barely toured over here until Lovesexy and yet his albums after PR continued to do well over here. They did that off their own back. No doubt you will view my evidence differently, if so please supply similar facts and figures which disprove my theories. You may think I'm nit-picking but really I'm just answering the challenges you have put forward.

I don't see that he's popular again. I heard a lot of people talking about him (good and bad comments) for a few days after the Super Bowl and then they stopped.

Imago said:

I have a question. When did Prince get placed on the backburners again? Everyone is acting like he was just straight out of the game, like Michael Jackson or something, like he just ABSOLUTELY HAS TO MAKE A COMEBACK. Hell, I thought "Musicology" was the comeback. That went off tha chain. And "3121" aint that bad either. "3121" aint just the best thing in the world, but it's still getting it's props. Prince never really left the game, to me. He just took a break in the mid 90's, that's all. Don't forget that he also got an award at for his song for "Happy Feet".