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PrintableThreadBare said: As for tantalizing projects such as Roadhouse Garden, the REAL Crystal Ball, etc. where are they now?
In the bootleg collections of people who complain that he releases too much music  . Actually, they are two great examples of WB era projects that never saw the light of day. You almost prove my point. Prince did that back then, he still does, he probably always will. So what has changed besides the exposure? | |
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herbthe4 said: Why do people STILL fail to understand that Prince does not give a shit about the charts, the system and MTV?
Not so fast. Rave Un2, anyone? | |
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ThreadBare said: As for tantalizing projects such as Roadhouse Garden, the REAL Crystal Ball, etc. where are they now?
I don't think he ever intended to release Roadhouse Garden. I believe he was trying to goad WB into releasing the Greatest Hits so he would be free of WB. Once the Greatest Hits was released he would be free to do what he wanted. But WB wanted to hold on to the Greatest Hits for as long as possible as leverage /threat/ control over Prince. Roadhouse Garden was supposed to be a Revolution cd therefore it wasn't a Prince cd & wouldn't be covered under the contract. He waved the threat of releasing Roadhouse Garden under WB's nose & what was their response? They were going to release a greatest hits in Europe only - which would not end his contract but stop him from releasing a competing cd. And in the end Prince backed down from releasing RG & WB backed down from releasing GH. Just forget all those plans from that period - it was wartime with WB & in wartime anything will be said to get a desired effect. | |
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Hmm, WB wasn't the only party duped by Prince's wartime claims: How are we fans to react, when we, too, are the foils in such a ruse? | |
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ThreadBare said: Hmm, WB wasn't the only party duped by Prince's wartime claims: How are we fans to react, when we, too, are the foils in such a ruse?
Well you can feel dirty & used which does you no good or you can just concentrate on what Prince is doing now & just let all that old crap fall away. I agree its not good to the fans to dangle music in our faces & then snatch it away but Prince used whatever weapon he had against WB & unfortunately the fans devotion was something he could use. | |
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CalhounSq said: Aaron said: Natasha said: Thread Bare you are So Critical of Prince. I think You have some Nerve and you should go to Sleep and stop creating Havoc! If you Don't like him go listen to Somebody else ! He is Fine without Warners. He is Fine without Mayte,He is F>>>I>>>N>>>E!!! Say that over and Over again put it in your Pipe and Smoke It! Peace.
is this the equivalent of putting one's hands over one's ears and saying "lalalalalalal i can't hear you lalalalala everything is fine lalalalalalala nothing is wrong" Natasha = Vagina  Good call...I thought the same thing. -------------------------------------------------
Something new for your ears and soul. http://artists.mp3s.com/a...dadli.html | |
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Look Prince just started making bad music after the so so Lovesexy. Batman was the first reall stupid and silly album he'd put out.and The Black Album would have been the first if it had been released in late 87. Look WB could not go inside of record stores and force people to buy his bad albums at gun point. EMI, and Arista couldn't either. Paisly park? All the acts sounding like they were singing his outtakes. Jill Jones first (1987) album sounded like something from the 1999/purple rain(82 to 84) era and so did everyone else. Prince just lost it and he wants to blame everyone but himself. | |
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herbthe4 said: Why do people STILL fail to understand that Prince does not give a shit about the charts, the system and MTV? Why do WE care so much if his record is up there next to Springsteen's? I don't. He has chosen to be unbound by the "release a record, release a single, make a video, do a tour where you mix cuts from said album in between 'When Doves Cry', 'Lets Go Crazy' and 'Kiss' - 'Little Red Corvette' encore (complete with video dance steps) - close show with 'Purple Rain', release another single midway through tour w/ accompanying video..."
Wash, rinse, repeat. zzz... Fuck it. He's doing what he wants to, and God bless him for it. I wish I could. We don't know what went on in those board meetings and negotiations. I don't sympathize with WB. I think they're doing OK and are happier without some "uppity" prima-donna "artist" mucking up their machine. Other artists are following Prince's lead, so there must be something behind his stance. Basically, it's none of my business and I've got other shit to worry about. Plus, I've got a shitload of Prince CD's in my rack to listen to as I worry. Co-sign, co-sign, co-sign. Gawd, hell no, I have no sympathy for a successful major label conglomerate within the billion dollar music industry just because they had to deal with another demanding, stubborn, sticking to his guns, albeit talented misfit. It sure as hell wasn't the first time, and it won't be the last. And people need to remember this quote from you, Herb; We don't know what went on in those board meetings and negotiations.
Sympathize with WB all you want, but at the same time realize they don't have your best interest at heart either. Over the past decade the music industry is much different than it was previously in some ways. I don't view the WB of the first 15 years of Prince's career as the evil ones, but after that the company started to change with a new influx of people. There was even at least one incident when a few of the execs there almost came to blows. [This message was edited Tue Sep 10 20:07:17 PDT 2002 by Supernova] This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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Warner Bros. never cared about Prince or his music, all they cared about was making MONEY. To Warner Bros., Prince was just a tradable commodity to exploit.
That seems to be the attitute with all of these big record conglomerates other wise the most talented artists would be promoted rather than the most commercially viable ones. Princes' mucis is wonderful! It just keeps getting better and better with passing time. And if you are one of those people who can't decided for yourself that a song is great, without somebody hyping it up for you, then I really feel sorry for you, 'Cause you're missing out on some beautiful music.   ~~~~~~~~~~~
"My body, a living representation of other life...older...longer...wiser. The mountains and valleys, trees, rocks. Sand and flowers and water and stone. Made in earth." - Audre Lorde | |
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CandyEyce said: Warner Bros. never cared about Prince or his music, all they cared about was making MONEY. To Warner Bros., Prince was just a tradable commodity to exploit.
That seems to be the attitute with all of these big record conglomerates other wise the most talented artists would be promoted rather than the most commercially viable ones. Princes' mucis is wonderful! It just keeps getting better and better with passing time. And if you are one of those people who can't decided for yourself that a song is great, without somebody hyping it up for you, then I really feel sorry for you, 'Cause you're missing out on some beautiful music. You must remember that without Warner Bros, or some other record label, most of us probably would have never heard of Prince, his music, or be fans of his, especially nearly 25 years after his first release. Prince needed Warner Bros. to become the artist he is just as much as Warner Bros. needed him to make money. An album a year? In the 80's and 90's? Relatively unheard of. Allowing a complete rookie to produce his own music with no outside meddling? Astonishing. No matter what Prince tries to tell you, Warner Bros WAS good for him and good to him. For a very long time. It's a 2 way street. Yes, they are a business. And he knew that all along. Because he wanted to be in the business. If he didn't, he'd have been playing gigs in local MPLS bars his whole life. It's a trade-off. Warner Bros did the work that made him big, while he delivered the goods in the talent department. | |
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Based on what has been written about him, Prince is a walking contradiction. | |
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thedog said: Look Prince just started making bad music after the so so Lovesexy. Batman was the first reall stupid and silly album he'd put out.and The Black Album would have been the first if it had been released in late 87. Look WB could not go inside of record stores and force people to buy his bad albums at gun point. EMI, and Arista couldn't either. Paisly park? All the acts sounding like they were singing his outtakes. Jill Jones first (1987) album sounded like something from the 1999/purple rain(82 to 84) era and so did everyone else. Prince just lost it and he wants to blame everyone but himself.
--- The Batman soundtrack sold millions of copies. I do not think WB was upset with him at that point. Consider the 5 million copies that Diamonds and Perls sold. Prince did not start having real problems with WB until he want public with his desire to leave. Changing his name and having TMBGITW be successful sealed his fate with WB. I work in corporate america. It is filled with the most slimey back stabbing people that you could imagine. After the Time/Warner merger I do not think Prince stood a chance at that company. You need to read a few books about the industry before you slam Prince. | |
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Ifsixwuz9 said: ThreadBare said: But, I'm beginning to suspect they provided a wildly creative and eccentric artist with the structure he needed to refine his art. Much props to Warners for their effect on things such as quality control and promotion. By 1993/94 the execs that helped mold Princes'career, Mo Ostin and Lenny Waronker were gone or getting booted from the company. The people who replaced them couldn't give a shit about quality music. They wanted to make $$, they wanted whaterever was the new music fad was, bottom line. And at that point Prince was not putting out albums that were selling 4 or 5 mil copies which would have been more than decent for an artist that had the long career he had. --- A person with sense finally post on this issue. Prince may never be able to go back to large record company again. He is over 40, black and not about to do hip-hop. In case some of you have not noticed those qualities are the exact opposite of the crap that is on the radio these days. In addition, record sales are at a all time low. If you cannot sell millions of CD's you are not going to have contract for long. I think he could go to an independent record label. He will not sell millions of records or get on the radio but, people could find his music in the stores. The poor distrubition of his music is the real problem. I will not be surprised if this live set is not distributed by some record company. I do not think some of you realize the amount of money that would be needed to run a independent label. I do not think Prince has the funds to run this music club in a effienct manner. I think the idea is great and I understand the need to have control over his music. However, I think he will return to some form of traditional music distrubution. I am a little surprised that in this day and age of corporate scandal that any sane person would feel sorry for a corporation. Trust me they do not feel bad when they are destroying and raiding your 401k. I am certain no one a Warner Brothers gives a rat's ass about Prince or his music. Look at the shitty why they treat his catalogue. They have a gold mine but,they are to stupid to do anything with it. In my opinion WB music is not staffed with sharpest knives in the kicthen cabinet. . [This message was edited Tue Sep 10 6:31:12 PDT 2002 by Ifsixwuz9] | |
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laurarichardson said: Ifsixwuz9 said: ThreadBare said: But, I'm beginning to suspect they provided a wildly creative and eccentric artist with the structure he needed to refine his art. Much props to Warners for their effect on things such as quality control and promotion. By 1993/94 the execs that helped mold Princes'career, Mo Ostin and Lenny Waronker were gone or getting booted from the company. The people who replaced them couldn't give a shit about quality music. They wanted to make $$, they wanted whaterever was the new music fad was, bottom line. And at that point Prince was not putting out albums that were selling 4 or 5 mil copies which would have been more than decent for an artist that had the long career he had. --- A person with sense finally post on this issue. Prince may never be able to go back to large record company again. He is over 40, black and not about to do hip-hop. In case some of you have not noticed those qualities are the exact opposite of the crap that is on the radio these days. In addition, record sales are at a all time low. If you cannot sell millions of CD's you are not going to have contract for long. I think he could go to an independent record label. He will not sell millions of records or get on the radio but, people could find his music in the stores. The poor distrubition of his music is the real problem. I will not be surprised if this live set is not distributed by some record company. I do not think some of you realize the amount of money that would be needed to run a independent label. I do not think Prince has the funds to run this music club in a effienct manner. I think the idea is great and I understand the need to have control over his music. However, I think he will return to some form of traditional music distrubution. I am a little surprised that in this day and age of corporate scandal that any sane person would feel sorry for a corporation. Trust me they do not feel bad when they are destroying and raiding your 401k. I am certain no one a Warner Brothers gives a rat's ass about Prince or his music. Look at the shitty why they treat his catalogue. They have a gold mine but,they are to stupid to do anything with it. In my opinion WB music is not staffed with sharpest knives in the kicthen cabinet. . [This message was edited Tue Sep 10 6:31:12 PDT 2002 by Ifsixwuz9] I don't think Prince's being black, 40 or not-so-talented at hip-hop is the issue. Janet Jackson has managed to stay in the game. (Before folks get bent out of shape, that was not a comparison of the two entertainers' artistry. It was, however, a reference to staying power.) I admit not knowing enough about the industry. I want to know more. It is, in part, why I posed the question: Has an "emancipated" Prince been good for fans? Better than the WB'd Prince? Some say yes, some say no -- and both camps seem to have really valid and enlightening arguments. I appreciate your responses. | |
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ThreadBare said: I admit not knowing enough about the industry. I want to know more. It is, in part, why I posed the question: Has an "emancipated" Prince been good for fans? Better than the WB'd Prince? Some say yes, some say no -- and both camps seem to have really valid and enlightening arguments. I appreciate your responses. Good question. And I think a better question would be has being emancipated been good for Prince? Better than he was with WB? Some say yes, some say no... etc. | |
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ThreadBare said: I don't think Prince's being black, 40 or not-so-talented at hip-hop is the issue. Janet Jackson has managed to stay in the game. (Before folks get bent out of shape, that was not a comparison of the two entertainers' artistry. It was, however, a reference to staying power.) Janet's staying power is due to her getting naked and pushing the sex kitten image, working with popular hip/hop acts (Busta Rhymes, Shaggy, Q-Tip, Blackstreet) and recycling the same formulatic album since "Janet" came out in 1993. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
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ThreadBare said: laurarichardson said: Ifsixwuz9 said: ThreadBare said: But, I'm beginning to suspect they provided a wildly creative and eccentric artist with the structure he needed to refine his art. Much props to Warners for their effect on things such as quality control and promotion. By 1993/94 the execs that helped mold Princes'career, Mo Ostin and Lenny Waronker were gone or getting booted from the company. The people who replaced them couldn't give a shit about quality music. They wanted to make $$, they wanted whaterever was the new music fad was, bottom line. And at that point Prince was not putting out albums that were selling 4 or 5 mil copies which would have been more than decent for an artist that had the long career he had. --- A person with sense finally post on this issue. Prince may never be able to go back to large record company again. He is over 40, black and not about to do hip-hop. In case some of you have not noticed those qualities are the exact opposite of the crap that is on the radio these days. In addition, record sales are at a all time low. If you cannot sell millions of CD's you are not going to have contract for long. I think he could go to an independent record label. He will not sell millions of records or get on the radio but, people could find his music in the stores. The poor distrubition of his music is the real problem. I will not be surprised if this live set is not distributed by some record company. I do not think some of you realize the amount of money that would be needed to run a independent label. I do not think Prince has the funds to run this music club in a effienct manner. I think the idea is great and I understand the need to have control over his music. However, I think he will return to some form of traditional music distrubution. I am a little surprised that in this day and age of corporate scandal that any sane person would feel sorry for a corporation. Trust me they do not feel bad when they are destroying and raiding your 401k. I am certain no one a Warner Brothers gives a rat's ass about Prince or his music. Look at the shitty why they treat his catalogue. They have a gold mine but,they are to stupid to do anything with it. In my opinion WB music is not staffed with sharpest knives in the kicthen cabinet. . [This message was edited Tue Sep 10 6:31:12 PDT 2002 by Ifsixwuz9] I don't think Prince's being black, 40 or not-so-talented at hip-hop is the issue. Janet Jackson has managed to stay in the game. (Before folks get bent out of shape, that was not a comparison of the two entertainers' artistry. It was, however, a reference to staying power.) I admit not knowing enough about the industry. I want to know more. It is, in part, why I posed the question: Has an "emancipated" Prince been good for fans? Better than the WB'd Prince? Some say yes, some say no -- and both camps seem to have really valid and enlightening arguments. I appreciate your responses. --- Janet is not in her 40's and Miss Jackson's record sales have decline over the last decade. If your saw the HBO concert she did last year half the stadium was empty. Janet is on her way out. Please name a black male over 40 that is selling loads of records and please don't list Michael Jackson as he is struggling. To find out more about the industry check out these books. Hit Men (A book about the music industry and the mob) DMSR by Per Neilsen ( A book about Prince) There is also a book out about Warner Brothers records written by former executive. I will find out the name and post it here later. The ex-executive tells how WB went from a creative and profitable music powerhouse to a wasteland after the Time/Warner merger. I skimmed this book at Borders and I think it proves some of the things that Prince has said about the company. Look up information about the Recording Industry Of Ammerican Association. This is the group that lobbies for the music industry. These are scary people. | |
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Ifsixwuz9 said: ThreadBare said: I don't think Prince's being black, 40 or not-so-talented at hip-hop is the issue. Janet Jackson has managed to stay in the game. (Before folks get bent out of shape, that was not a comparison of the two entertainers' artistry. It was, however, a reference to staying power.) Janet's staying power is due to her getting naked and pushing the sex kitten image, working with popular hip/hop acts (Busta Rhymes, Shaggy, Q-Tip, Blackstreet) and recycling the same formulatic album since "Janet" came out in 1993. --- LOL Yes strolling around half naked and showing your boobs can help you long. | |
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