Considering Prince's business sense (or lack thereof), I've come to sympathize with the Warners execs that often clashed with Prince. Look at how he's operated since being "freed" from the confines of corporate life. Shucks, if anything, I can't wait for his return to a big label.

This isn't to say that Prince didn't have to wage fights for artistic expression and the like. But, I'm beginning to suspect they provided a wildly creative and eccentric artist with the structure he needed to refine his art. Much props to Warners for their effect on things such as quality control and promotion.

In the years since his "emancipation," is Prince better off?

And, in turn, are his fans?

I've been saying this for years!!! Finally people are coming around... If I can be arsed to explain it again for the thousandth time, I'll expand on what I mean. Til then, "I was right and you're all wrong."

Aaron said:

Aaron, I, too, have been saying this for years. So, don't look at this, in my case, as "coming around." It's just that, as I hear about complaints from music club members year after year, I begin to appreciate Warners' benefits.

Hear, hear.
I used to like Warner alot (before the mergers) becuz they used to do alot of artist development.
Their logo still looks good on lots of records I have, Joni Mitchell, Prince.
They used to whip out rather good Prince albums. THeir busininess sense and Prince's creativity at least made sure that his music was distributed properly. And not via this obscure internet. The internet is not available to everyone...

I Certainly Don't Sympathize with Warners! Prince is Doing Fine without them! His music is Wonderful. He's Doing Great,Looks Great Sounds Great,Never Better. He's a Very Talented Musician and they were Foolish to not Promote him More and Give him his Masters. No,They Need Him ! He Doesn't need them. If he wants another Label he can Shop Around. Warners is NOT the Only label there is!

Natasha said:

Natasha, your support is so unfailing it's incredible. Is there anything the wee purple one could do to shake your adulation?

SDLDAWN's profile is my doormat.

Natasha said:

I think, given the past few years' operation, he should strongly consider (at least) getting a good manager.

Thread Bare you are So Critical of Prince. I think You have some Nerve and you should go to Sleep and stop creating Havoc! If you Don't like him go listen to Somebody else ! He is Fine without Warners. He is Fine without Mayte,He is F>>>I>>>N>>>E!!! Say that over and Over again put it in your Pipe and Smoke It! Peace.

Oh,in response to Bancock or whatever his name I forgot Sorry. No,Absolutely Nothing that would make me not be 100% loyal to Prince.

Natasha said:

Natasha, sister, chill a lil', OK? I'm raising a question about Prince's organizational habits, vis a vis his former Warner situation. I didn't say anything about Mayte. His marriage isn't my concern. His music and how accessible he makes it to his fan or market -- those are my points of interest.

As for liking Prince as an artist, I have a lot of favorites. He's one of them.

Natasha said:

is this the equivalent of putting one's hands over one's ears and saying "lalalalalalal i can't hear you lalalalala everything is fine lalalalalalala nothing is wrong"

Aaron said:

Natasha = Vagina

While I don't sympathize with Warner I agree about the difficulty and frustration that comes with working with Prince. Does anyone know who his manager is or if he currently has one?

ThreadBare said:

By 1993/94 the execs that helped mold Princes'career, Mo Ostin and Lenny Waronker were gone or getting booted from the company. The people who replaced them couldn't give a shit about quality music. They wanted to make $$, they wanted whaterever was the new music fad was, bottom line. And at that point Prince was not putting out albums that were selling 4 or 5 mil copies which would have been more than decent for an artist that had the long career he had.


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[This message was edited Tue Sep 10 6:31:12 PDT 2002 by Ifsixwuz9]

[Flame deleted.--Matt]
[This message was edited Tue Sep 10 12:03:29 PDT 2002 by matt]

ThreadBare said:

When Prince was signed to Warners,his career was much more "structured" than it is now.We would get a new CD every year.We would also have new videos to enjoy.We would get maxi-singles filled with remixes.There were the occasional home video releases that often coincided with the release of a new album (remember the "Gett Off" home video?).There were properly organized tours and even the occassional movie.

Since his "divorce" from Warners,things have gotten really messy.New projects are often announced,but don't always come out.A few years ago,the single "U Make My Sunshine" appeared in stores,but it was not really attached to any album project.The song "She Loves Me For Me" has recently been sent to radio stations,months after the album came out.Not too long ago,Prince recorded a remix album for one of his weakest albums ever ('Rave').


Yes,I realize that Prince is making more money than the Warner days,and most fans on this site seem to be impressed with his new direction.But I just feel that,in the process,many things have been compromised.

I'm glad he isn't with Warner Bros' anymore because even though some of you say it would have been better for business, Prince clearly didn't want to be there anymore and that was greatly affecting the last music he put out. At least now he is happy and hopefully his future music will reflect that. Even if it doesn't I think the artists' happiness is the main thing. Not saying the fans are unimportant, but even though I sometimes enjoy Chaos and Disorder, I don't want anymore cds like it from Prince!

Anyway, I wouldn’t go as far as saying I sympathise with WB. I mean they’re a corporate monster, part of an even larger corporate monster. So sympathy doesn’t go to them.

My sympathy goes out to Prince because since leaving them his output has certainly become mediocre. And he has talked his way into this situation quite publicly and loudly enough that if he even wanted to go back, to any label, he would have to wipe a lot of egg from his face. Not something our man is humble enough to do I suspect.

Then again, maybe he doesn’t want to and is absolutely fine like some profess.

Jon said:

I certainly don't sympathize with Warners either,because there is some truth to the stuff Prince was saying about them in the mid-90s.And my problem isn't so much with the music.Prince can still create stunning music these days.My gripe is with the "messiness" of his projects and the way things are released these days.I miss the whole "one album a year deal" that we had when he was with Warners.

DavidEye said:

I agree with you. The thing is, the whole hap hazzard approach has also affected the music I reckon. An album a year would mean a more selective approach to it and a much more focused release. Spewing out everything that hes done dilutes the whole output.

Emancipation is a case in point...

Why do people STILL fail to understand that Prince does not give a shit about the charts, the system and MTV? Why do WE care so much if his record is up there next to Springsteen's? I don't. He has chosen to be unbound by the "release a record, release a single, make a video, do a tour where you mix cuts from said album in between 'When Doves Cry', 'Lets Go Crazy' and 'Kiss' - 'Little Red Corvette' encore (complete with video dance steps) - close show with 'Purple Rain', release another single midway through tour w/ accompanying video..."

Wash, rinse, repeat. zzz...

Fuck it. He's doing what he wants to, and God bless him for it. I wish I could. We don't know what went on in those board meetings and negotiations. I don't sympathize with WB. I think they're doing OK and are happier without some "uppity" prima-donna "artist" mucking up their machine.

Other artists are following Prince's lead, so there must be something behind his stance. Basically, it's none of my business and I've got other shit to worry about. Plus, I've got a shitload of Prince CD's in my rack to listen to as I worry.

YEAH, who should sympathize with Warner Brothers Records? When Prince was under warner we only got...

lots of music!

single cds, double cds, even triple cds
cd singles
extended remix maxi singles
promo cds, 12", posters and flats
giant tours
public and printed interviews
live performances on Grammys, AMAs, VH1, MTV
movie premieres
autograph sessions (Turtles in ATL is where i got mine)
videos, do you remember when we used to get videos?


Yeah, being with Warner Bros, really sucked

herbthe4 said:

You speak the truth Herbthe4. However, the debate, or the bit that Ive tagged onto anyway, is more about how the split has affected his output. I agree, he is free of all the crap that engulfs these major label 'stars'. He is doing exactly what he wants. Cool. But this freedom that he has, in my opinion, is diluting the output. I dont mean diluting it and making it less of a success, I mean diluting it for me personally.

I couldnt give a rats arse whether he charts again or not, or how many multi platinum discs hes shipped. I just wanna hear the dudes music and enjoy it. And since he has found 'freedom' he has lost something somewhere. Too much out put.

So, no sympathy for WB, no sympathy for Prince either then, but sympathy for me because the split from WB, for whatever reasons has made the listening experience more of a hit or miss affair as opposed to a more controlled and better filtered master piece.

ThreadBare said:

I find it easier to sympathise with a lone artist who has brought so much pleasure to millions of people in the past (irrespective of his obvious flaws and exentricities) than to sympathise with faceless members of greedy corporations who have brought me no discernible joy whatsoever.



.

ThreadBare said:

AMEN!!!

I rarely post in here, because most of it is just mindless rants by 22 year old Prince fans that don't know any better. But i had to post on this one to say that I couldn't agree with this post more.

Warner went above and beyond the call of duty of trying to work with Prince. We should ALL be treated as badly as Prince was.

Examples:

We should all be given our own record label.

After said record label NEVER posts a profit we should be given ANOTHER one!

We should all be made Vice President with having NO experience in such a position.

And get paid a ridiculous amount of money to do so.

Prince is an amazing musician with NO business sense whatsoever.

He signed a deal that was so heavily in his favor, just so he could compete with Madonna and Michael Jackson. When his sales weren't cutting the mustard he blamed Warner.

He hasn't sold more than he did at Warner with ANY record he's made since with maybe the exception of Chaos.

If you ask me, Warner got screwed NOT Prince.
[This message was edited Tue Sep 10 8:02:48 PDT 2002 by ButterscotchPimp]

ButterscotchPimp said:

Chaos was with Warner... the last one... Here is the edit ----- > Sorry, just reread the sentence. you meant he has sold more than Chaos since leaving WB I presume.....

I didnt know he was made a VP though... is that true?
[This message was edited Tue Sep 10 8:10:03 PDT 2002 by Jon]

I wonder how much of this is affected by good old days syndrome? I agree that Prince has released much more music than he would have had he been with Warner Bros. Inevitably, you get into the quality vs. quantity discussion, but what's quality to me may be crap to you. Since he's pretty much always produced himself, it's hard to say that the direction he's taken musically would have been much different. At least now you have the option to hear the music and decide what you like and what you don't.

As far as too much output goes, alot of people here spend alot of time complaining about Prince not delivering 4 Cd's in one year in a timely manner. Then of course when(if?) they are delivered comes the complaint that "he's putting out too much, if this had been tailored down to one CD of the songs that I like this would have been a classic!" That complaint is an old one too, there are some who think SOTT was too long, or that one album per year was too much. I guess. I just have a hard time believing that the people complaining would have actually preferred to buy SOTT instead of Crystal Ball (the original) if WB had given them the option.

As far as the good old days of the occassional Prince videos, did we really lose anything there? How many worthwhile videos did Prince actually put out with WB? Three? Four? There's a reason he hasn't gotten a "video vanguard" award from MTV. And the occassional movie, well the world may be a better place with fewer Prince movies. Of course in the good old WB days you got bad (if not worse) service from 1-800-newfunk just like you get it from npgmc now. And Prince starting projects that don't come to fruition is nothing new. To steal a line from Billy Joel "the good old days weren't all that good".

That said, I think the major change has been exposure and radio airplay. Of course even that's not guaranteed. He is forty-something in an very age-conscious industry. Being with Warner Bros. certainly wouldn't make him any younger. And if he truly doesn't care about that anymore, then is he really worse off without WB?

Anyway, for a somewhat related discussion about how much Prince has actually released post-Warner Bros. check out the following thread.
http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=21727

Jon said:

[This message was edited Tue Sep 10 9:23:22 PDT 2002 by adorable2]
[This message was edited Tue Sep 10 12:04:53 PDT 2002 by matt]

ThreadBare said:

Here's how I look at Prince's freedom - when Prince announced his emancipation from WB there were still lots of contractual obligations in play that effected his releases for years. He wasn't really free of WB until the greatest hits cd was released. So Roadhouse Garden, Crysal Ball, 7 cd Sampling Set, etc. - all those projects that were announced or delayed or late or cancelled were all conceived while trying to wrestle free of WB. The actions he took in these years weren't career plans but fuck-you WB actions.

So how does Prince's performance stack up if you only look at the time after the greatest hits cd? He released TRC, he lauched the 2nd year of NPGMC which so far has released 1 exclusive cd & given concert benefits to a number of fans, he has held his annual celebration at PP & he is continuing to tour. I think he is doing pretty good.

As for WB - they are pricks & don't deserve any sympathy.

I think they do, if they were (yes, admittedly, money-grubbing) company folks who tried really hard to accommodate a really difficult artist, gave him gobs of money and support -- only to become scapegoats for declining quality by said artist.

As for tantalizing projects such as Roadhouse Garden, the REAL Crystal Ball, etc. where are they now?