New topic
Printablepald1 said: Janfriend said: You're way out of line. She is not relevant to black culture, or asian culture, or arab culture, or indigenous culture. If you mean "white western culture" then you may have a point, but most of the people in the western world are not white and she is not relevant as an artist to them. I can only assume you misunderstood what I meant by culture It's never good to assume. Why would you think that Madonna could NOT be important to Arab, black, Asian and indiginous peoples? I think you show your own prejucidce by assuming this. How could you know? Also, who made you spokesperson for all these peoples? Please try to show a bit more courtesy to people of different backgrounds in the future. | |
- E-mail - orgNote -  Report post to moderator |
pald1 said: pald1 said: It's never good to assume. Why would you think that Madonna could NOT be important to Arab, black, Asian and indiginous peoples? I think you show your own prejucidce by assuming this. How could you know? Also, who made you spokesperson for all these peoples? Please try to show a bit more courtesy to people of different backgrounds in the future. You made yourself the spokesperson for all western culture. Maybe you should show a bit more courtesy to people of color. You show your prejudice by assuming every community of color finds Madonna a relevant icon. You made a sweeping generalization and I made one back based on my knowledge of different cultures of color, as I am multicultural. I don't live in a white western bubble | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Janfriend said: pald1 said: It's never good to assume. Why would you think that Madonna could NOT be important to Arab, black, Asian and indiginous peoples? I think you show your own prejucidce by assuming this. How could you know? Also, who made you spokesperson for all these peoples? Please try to show a bit more courtesy to people of different backgrounds in the future. You made yourself the spokesperson for all western culture. Maybe you should show a bit more courtesy to people of color. You show your prejudice by assuming every community of color finds Madonna a relevant icon. You made a sweeping generalization and I made one back based on my knowledge of different cultures of color, as I am multicultural. I don't live in a white western bubble Can you answer the question? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
pald1 said: Janfriend said: You made yourself the spokesperson for all western culture. Maybe you should show a bit more courtesy to people of color. You show your prejudice by assuming every community of color finds Madonna a relevant icon. You made a sweeping generalization and I made one back based on my knowledge of different cultures of color, as I am multicultural. I don't live in a white western bubble Can you answer the question? Which question? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Janfriend said: pald1 said: Can you answer the question? Which question? It would be facetious of me to deny that, perhaps, there was some generalization in my opening statement - but only as it pertained to Prince vs Madonna (remember, the argument is not whether Madonna is relevant only but more so than Prince - would you deny that Prince is irrelevant to you and your culture)? It actually hadn't ocurred to me that this rivalry could be null and void in Tehran or Beijing or Calcutta and I thank you for this. That being said, I would still like to know why you have appointed yourself spokesperson for such people living in these places and even, if it is still not the case? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
pald1 said: Janfriend said: Which question? It would be facetious of me to deny that, perhaps, there was some generalization in my opening statement - but only as it pertained to Prince vs Madonna (remember, the argument is not whether Madonna is relevant only but more so than Prince - would you deny that Prince is irrelevant to you and your culture)? It actually hadn't ocurred to me that this rivalry could be null and void in Tehran or Beijing or Calcutta and I thank you for this. That being said, I would still like to know why you have appointed yourself spokesperson for such people living in these places and even, if it is still not the case? You didn't read the part where I said I was making a generalization based on my multiculturalism in response to your generaliztion about western culture? We can only speak in general terms here. I don't know every single person in the world and neither do you. Your interpretation about me making myself spokesperson for these cultures can also be said about you making yourself spokesperson for western culture I wasn't talking about separate cultures outside the west. I was talking about separate cultures within the western world. I have friends and family of every major culture I can think of. From those people, as well as aquaintances, co-worlers, my sociology studies, and studies on race and ethnic relations Madonna is not a relevant icon when it comes to music, fashion, and trends. On the other hand, I hear more about Prince being significant to these cultures of color, primarly those of African descent. Therefore, it is all relative to WHAT culture you are talking about when the term "cultural icon" is being used. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Madonna is a another marginally talented American white woman doing an average imitation of a whole lot of Black people. (Bleached)Blond ambition like a mofo. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Janfriend said: pald1 said: It would be facetious of me to deny that, perhaps, there was some generalization in my opening statement - but only as it pertained to Prince vs Madonna (remember, the argument is not whether Madonna is relevant only but more so than Prince - would you deny that Prince is irrelevant to you and your culture)? It actually hadn't ocurred to me that this rivalry could be null and void in Tehran or Beijing or Calcutta and I thank you for this. That being said, I would still like to know why you have appointed yourself spokesperson for such people living in these places and even, if it is still not the case? You didn't read the part where I said I was making a generalization based on my multiculturalism in response to your generaliztion about western culture? We can only speak in general terms here. I don't know every single person in the world and neither do you. Your interpretation about me making myself spokesperson for these cultures can also be said about you making yourself spokesperson for western culture I wasn't talking about separate cultures outside the west. I was talking about separate cultures within the western world. I have friends and family of every major culture I can think of. From those people, as well as aquaintances, co-worlers, my sociology studies, and studies on race and ethnic relations Madonna is not a relevant icon when it comes to music, fashion, and trends. On the other hand, I hear more about Prince being significant to these cultures of color, primarly those of African descent. Therefore, it is all relative to WHAT culture you are talking about when the term "cultural icon" is being used. I read the part where you admitted to making a generalization and therefore undercutting your own argument. ALso, there is no point answering my questions with questions of your own. That's not how it works. Didn't they teach you that in Sociology studies? Finally, the "I have friends and family of every major culture" speech from people always makes me laugh. It has no meaning. I'll say it again, you should be more respectful to people of all backgrounds. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
pald1 said: Janfriend said: You didn't read the part where I said I was making a generalization based on my multiculturalism in response to your generaliztion about western culture? We can only speak in general terms here. I don't know every single person in the world and neither do you. Your interpretation about me making myself spokesperson for these cultures can also be said about you making yourself spokesperson for western culture I wasn't talking about separate cultures outside the west. I was talking about separate cultures within the western world. I have friends and family of every major culture I can think of. From those people, as well as aquaintances, co-worlers, my sociology studies, and studies on race and ethnic relations Madonna is not a relevant icon when it comes to music, fashion, and trends. On the other hand, I hear more about Prince being significant to these cultures of color, primarly those of African descent. Therefore, it is all relative to WHAT culture you are talking about when the term "cultural icon" is being used. I read the part where you admitted to making a generalization and therefore undercutting your own argument. ALso, there is no point answering my questions with questions of your own. That's not how it works. Didn't they teach you that in Sociology studies? Finally, the "I have friends and family of every major culture" speech from people always makes me laugh. It has no meaning. I'll say it again, you should be more respectful to people of all backgrounds. I don't know why it would make you laugh if it is the truth. You were the one that was disrespectful to cultures other than your own, not I. You're not even admitting to your own careless generalization, but want to attack me. Whose background did I disrespect? You disrespected cultures of color. I told you what my genralization was based on, twice. I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for here | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Janfriend said: pald1 said: I read the part where you admitted to making a generalization and therefore undercutting your own argument. ALso, there is no point answering my questions with questions of your own. That's not how it works. Didn't they teach you that in Sociology studies? Finally, the "I have friends and family of every major culture" speech from people always makes me laugh. It has no meaning. I'll say it again, you should be more respectful to people of all backgrounds. I don't know why it would make you laugh if it is the truth. You were the one that was disrespectful to cultures other than your own, not I. You're not even admitting to your own careless generalization, but want to attack me. Whose background did I disrespect? You disrespected cultures of color. I told you what my genralization was based on, twice. I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for here I happen to be black. Your assumption that I was not clearly shows your prejudice | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Madonna = swagger jacker, which is cool but damn how about giving a brother or a sister some props on the inspiration at least?
I do believe 1. She got the one name idea from a Black man. 2. She got the reinvention idea from a Black man 3. She got the religious/sexual overtone idea from a Black man. 4. She got the controversy is press idea from a Black man. 5. She got the crosses, eyeliner, and 89 flowers on her back idea from a Black man. 6. One video was Kiss in a peep show w/ blond freshly cut hair. 7. She put the perfume on the album cuz a Black man rocked strong perfume. 8. She got the idea to writhe on the floor from a Black man. 9. She got her dancing style from Black men. 10. She got the idea to pluck two chords on a guitar from a Black man. 11. Didnt she paint her crib red and gold around the Love Sign period? 12. Didnt she go hard core Brit/euro when P went hardcore Black? 13. Didnt she get pregnant around Emancipation? I'm saying | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
JonnyApplesauce said: Madonna = swagger jacker, which is cool but damn how about giving a brother or a sister some props on the inspiration at least?
I do believe 1. She got the one name idea from a Black man. 2. She got the reinvention idea from a Black man 3. She got the religious/sexual overtone idea from a Black man. 4. She got the controversy is press idea from a Black man. 5. She got the crosses, eyeliner, and 89 flowers on her back idea from a Black man. Put this way, how could one NOT argue that she is more relevant? Put this way, how could one NOT argue that she is more relevant? 6. One video was Kiss in a peep show w/ blond freshly cut hair. 7. She put the perfume on the album cuz a Black man rocked strong perfume. 8. She got the idea to writhe on the floor from a Black man. 9. She got her dancing style from Black men. 10. She got the idea to pluck two chords on a guitar from a Black man. 11. Didnt she paint her crib red and gold around the Love Sign period? 12. Didnt she go hard core Brit/euro when P went hardcore Black? 13. Didnt she get pregnant around Emancipation? I'm saying [Edited 12/11/06 22:27pm] | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
pald1 said: Janfriend said: I don't know why it would make you laugh if it is the truth. You were the one that was disrespectful to cultures other than your own, not I. You're not even admitting to your own careless generalization, but want to attack me. Whose background did I disrespect? You disrespected cultures of color. I told you what my genralization was based on, twice. I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for here I happen to be black. Your assumption that I was not clearly shows your prejudice No, you comments came across as if you weren't, especially when you said "What culture did you think I was referring about - sub Saharan?" and then ended it with name-calling. Imo, that doesn't sound like an appropriate comment a black person would say to another. I could have been sub-Saharan. You obviously didn't care. Even when I said "Western white culture" you didn't mention you were black. So really, it's not fair to assume someone is prejudice based on them calling you out on your non-inclusion of people of color. We all know who controls "western culture" and "western media" | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
pald1 said: JonnyApplesauce said: Madonna = swagger jacker, which is cool but damn how about giving a brother or a sister some props on the inspiration at least?
I do believe 1. She got the one name idea from a Black man. 2. She got the reinvention idea from a Black man 3. She got the religious/sexual overtone idea from a Black man. 4. She got the controversy is press idea from a Black man. 5. She got the crosses, eyeliner, and 89 flowers on her back idea from a Black man. 6. One video was Kiss in a peep show w/ blond freshly cut hair. 7. She put the perfume on the album cuz a Black man rocked strong perfume. 8. She got the idea to writhe on the floor from a Black man. 9. She got her dancing style from Black men. 10. She got the idea to pluck two chords on a guitar from a Black man. 11. Didnt she paint her crib red and gold around the Love Sign period? 12. Didnt she go hard core Brit/euro when P went hardcore Black? 13. Didnt she get pregnant around Emancipation? I'm saying [Edited 12/11/06 22:27pm] I don't think she was pregnant during the Emancipation period - but I could be wrong about this. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
pald1 said: JonnyApplesauce said: Madonna = swagger jacker, which is cool but damn how about giving a brother or a sister some props on the inspiration at least?
I do believe 1. She got the one name idea from a Black man. 2. She got the reinvention idea from a Black man 3. She got the religious/sexual overtone idea from a Black man. 4. She got the controversy is press idea from a Black man. 5. She got the crosses, eyeliner, and 89 flowers on her back idea from a Black man. Put this way, how could one NOT argue that she is more relevant? Put this way, how could one NOT argue that she is more relevant? 6. One video was Kiss in a peep show w/ blond freshly cut hair. 7. She put the perfume on the album cuz a Black man rocked strong perfume. 8. She got the idea to writhe on the floor from a Black man. 9. She got her dancing style from Black men. 10. She got the idea to pluck two chords on a guitar from a Black man. 11. Didnt she paint her crib red and gold around the Love Sign period? 12. Didnt she go hard core Brit/euro when P went hardcore Black? 13. Didnt she get pregnant around Emancipation? I'm saying [Edited 12/11/06 22:27pm] 
She had her baby in October and Emancipation was released in November. So, they were knocking boots around the same time Michael was the one that had to hurry and get someone pregnant (if he really did) to keep up with the Jones' | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
pald1 said: pald1 said: [Edited 12/11/06 22:27pm] I don't think she was pregnant during the Emancipation period -. roflmbao | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Janfriend said: pald1 said: I happen to be black. Your assumption that I was not clearly shows your prejudice No, you comments came across as if you weren't, especially when you said "What culture did you think I was referring about - sub Saharan?" and then ended it with name-calling. Imo, that doesn't sound like an appropriate comment a black person would say to another. I could have been sub-Saharan. You obviously didn't care. Even when I said "Western white culture" you didn't mention you were black. So really, it's not fair to assume someone is prejudice based on them calling you out on your non-inclusion of people of color. We all know who controls "western culture" and "western media" To 'come across' is differnet than to 'know.' | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
pald1 said: Janfriend said: No, you comments came across as if you weren't, especially when you said "What culture did you think I was referring about - sub Saharan?" and then ended it with name-calling. Imo, that doesn't sound like an appropriate comment a black person would say to another. I could have been sub-Saharan. You obviously didn't care. Even when I said "Western white culture" you didn't mention you were black. So really, it's not fair to assume someone is prejudice based on them calling you out on your non-inclusion of people of color. We all know who controls "western culture" and "western media" To 'come across' is differnet than to 'know.' I never said I knew what race you were, never did. I never mentioned your race, you did. You're assuming I thought you were white which isn't the case. I did, however, assume you were not black based on your sub-saharan comment. I said you disprected cultures of color by not including them or better yet, not taking them into consideration. Being a person of color does not make you immune to this | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
pald1 said: Forget about talent and musicianship for the moment. Why? Because, face it kids, Madonna makes more relevant albums than Prince in terms of exposure and hitting the cultural zeitgeist. Everyone knows and has heard a few tracks from her latest, "Confessions.." Who, outside Prince fandom knows or cares about tracks from 3121 or Musicology?
I thought about it and just had to own up, Prince is miles ahead in terms of musicianship but he's just not as relevant, culturally, as Madonna. You know this is the truth. Deny it and you're just wrong. Sorry. I haven't heard anything from madonna in years, i don't think either one is relevant, culturally speaking, right now. This is just a pointless comparison.Madonna hasn't done anything interesting for a very long time and i doubt if the major demographic is embracing her. I never thought much of Madonna as an artist. She's very good at marketing but is that "relevant" then a guess a Big Mac is too. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Janfriend said: pald1 said: To 'come across' is differnet than to 'know.' I never said I knew what race you were, never did. I never mentioned your race, you did. You're assuming I thought you were white which isn't the case. I did, however, assume you were not black based on your sub-saharan comment. I said you disprected cultures of color by not including them or better yet, not taking them into consideration. Being a person of color does not make you immune to this You really are a tiresome individual arn't you? Talk about circular argument. In any event, Madonna is still more relevant than Prince in our culture. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
|
"In any event, Madonna is still more relevant than Prince in our culture."
1. more relevant to whom? 2. As someone said before, a Big Mac is more relevant than Prince because, like Madonna, it's all about marketing. So who gives a fuck? Prince is relevant in terms of music, Madonna is in terms of advertising. So what? "New Power slide...." |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
pald1 said: Forget about talent and musicianship for the moment. Why? Because, face it kids, Madonna makes more relevant albums than Prince in terms of exposure and hitting the cultural zeitgeist. Everyone knows and has heard a few tracks from her latest, "Confessions.." Who, outside Prince fandom knows or cares about tracks from 3121 or Musicology?
I thought about it and just had to own up, Prince is miles ahead in terms of musicianship but he's just not as relevant, culturally, as Madonna. You know this is the truth. Deny it and you're just wrong. Sorry. Who gives a damn. It is never the majority who fully appreciates the best there there is. The most popular artist is never the best artist, bc most people have no taste. Don't hurt me, I'm a newb. I'm supposed to be stupid. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
pald1 said: Janfriend said: I never said I knew what race you were, never did. I never mentioned your race, you did. You're assuming I thought you were white which isn't the case. I did, however, assume you were not black based on your sub-saharan comment. I said you disprected cultures of color by not including them or better yet, not taking them into consideration. Being a person of color does not make you immune to this You really are a tiresome individual arn't you? Talk about circular argument. In any event, Madonna is still more relevant than Prince in our culture. Sorry you're tired There you go making yourself the spokesperson of our western culture | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
doctamario said: pald1 said: Forget about talent and musicianship for the moment. Why? Because, face it kids, Madonna makes more relevant albums than Prince in terms of exposure and hitting the cultural zeitgeist. Everyone knows and has heard a few tracks from her latest, "Confessions.." Who, outside Prince fandom knows or cares about tracks from 3121 or Musicology?
I thought about it and just had to own up, Prince is miles ahead in terms of musicianship but he's just not as relevant, culturally, as Madonna. You know this is the truth. Deny it and you're just wrong. Sorry. Who gives a damn. It is never the majority who fully appreciates the best there there is. The most popular artist is never the best artist, bc most people have no taste. I think you just agreed with me, right? | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Well ltes see - Prince has 5 grammy nominations
compared to Madonna's 3 grammy nominations. I would say Prince is more relevant based on current grammy nominations. Next question. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
i appreciate your enthusiasim but grammy nominations have nothing to do with cultural relevance. think milli vanilli and ricky martin. Prince #MUSICIANICONLEGEND | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
wavesofbliss said: i appreciate your enthusiasim but grammy nominations have nothing to do with cultural relevance. think milli vanilli and ricky martin.
Understand your point, but of course it does. Milli Vanilli and Ricky Martin were highly culturally relevant in their times. That might speak to the state of the culture at that time, but that doesn't change the fact of their relevance. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
wavesofbliss said: i appreciate your enthusiasm but grammy nominations have nothing to do with cultural relevance.
I would have to disagree with that statement. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
thedoorkeeper said: Well ltes see - Prince has 5 grammy nominations
compared to Madonna's 3 grammy nominations. I would say Prince is more relevant based on current grammy nominations. Next question. Grammy schammy. Gramaphone Awards given out by the American Recording Academy...well, its hardly an Oscar is it? Whistle something and you have a chance of being nominated. Next answer. | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
Yo La Tengo and Feist are more Relevant then both of them. All you others say Hell Yea!!  | |
| - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator |
