I thought about this CD a while ago and I realize that I listen to the CD less than I do NPS and that's the CD I've said I hated the most. I think that honor may go to Rave... There are songs on there that I like but there isn't a song on there that I love. I Love U But... comes close. In fact, I will say that I love the song but that's it. Normally I have a few songs that I love but never just 1. I remember playing it for someone and realizing that this CD really wasn't all that as I was telling him but he thought it was alright. It's kinda sad because 1999 should have been such a big year for Prince considering that we reached the year he sang about and named an album after in 1982 and it ended with such a whimper. Daggone shame.

I'm surprised you could get through it all. I listen to the title track, skip through the rest and take a brief listen at a few tracks. But yes, this does rank up there with some of Prince's all-time worst albums. One other project worth mentioning here is the shit he put out that same year - 1999: The New Master. Complete destruction of a classic song. I can't believe Prince put his name on such a foul product!

PurpleKnight said:

i wish he'd have put "one song" (without the speach, lol) on there

and perhaps "when will we b paid?" would have been a better choice
for the cover song on the album instead of winding road.

also, "beautiful strange" should have been on the retail version,
together with the exteded "tangerine" and "baby knows".

i'd also have loved to see "radical man" on the disc instead of 2
lesser funk songs (hot wit u, undisputed) so that it would have 1
really tight, longer funk workout.

fcuz, everyone has their own ideas about a tracklist for rave but
this one works quite well for me:

01. rave un2 the joy fantastic
02. radical man
03. the greatest romance ever $old
04. when will we b paid?
05. tangerine
06. so far, so pleased
07. the sun, the moon & stars
08. pretty man
09. beautiful strange
10. i love u but i don't trust u anymore
11. man o war
12. baby knows
13. strange but true
14. one song

I can't say anything about News because I never bought the album.

I did like Rave... I thought it was a good album the only things I wasnt particularly pleased with were 'Everyday Is A Winding Road' (cos I've never been overly fond of that song) and 'Wherever U Go, Whatever U Do' but other than that it wasn't too bad.

My bet for worst thing Prince ever did would go to the Batman OST, there are a couple of songs that are ok but in general thats abit of a no no for me.

No I dont think so because he learned from it and did the amazing musicology tour & promotion.

so learning from your mistake is a good thing.

but Rave did suck musically as well

PurpleKnight said:

Not his strongest showing, but I do enjoy Tangerine, So Far, So Pleased, and The Sun, The Moon, and Stars. What irks me are the heartbreak ballads. They're intolerably phony. Something about a 40 year old world famous millionaire pining over how he'd been done wrong by his teenage bride strikes me as patently false. And comical. I don't believe a note of either Man o'War or I Love U But... "You know I'm not a man o' war?" Please. He's a manipulator par excellence, and this teary victim schtick just don't fly.

He even winks knowingly about his manipulations in Silly Game, nullifying all the pathos that came before. The most revealing line in all of Rave is from Undisputed: "I can give U power and I can take it away." He has too much power. The weepy love songs are just another power play, and by now it's become humiliatingly transparent. The subject of romantic gamesmanship Prince had already covered with more imagination and confession in When Doves Cry, Strange Relationship, and When U Were Mine.

The Mayte years also introduced the dreadful parental lullabies, like Sweet Baby, The Holy River, and Wherever U Go... The infantilism in Graffiti Bridge now morphed into patronizing paternalism. Of Prince's many masks, the nurturant parent is his least convincing. And certainly least deserved, as he's shown little commitment to bandmembers, his women, even his own back catalogue--his "babies."

Rave was probably the last bit of inspiration he squeezed out of Mayte. It was the last convulsion of her influence, which proved just as prosaic as Emancipation. It was the death rattle of a decade long midlife/identity crisis of one Prince Rogers Nelson. His recording career in shambles, his marriage in utter ruin, his name the butt of jokes, he pretty much bottomed out. Strange But True prefigues his flight into religion, a renewed commitment to self discipline and order, which saw its complete expression in The Rainbow Children.

So I get locked out after writing a thread against this that gets 10 replies in about a minute, but this posting goes on and on for four pages? WTF?!?!

FunkJam said:

Oh,I forgot how awful that song is I rarely ever play this CD

padawan said:

Wow... that's quite some character assasination.

MrHappyRave4 said:

It's not 4 pages if you set your settings to display more replies - on my browser it is still one, long page. Besides, if you want to defend the album, you don't need to start a new thread, you're allowed to defend it on here, even if it does get mostly lost in the bad feelings for this album, that's probably why your thread was lost.

padawan said:

Prince displayed obvious emotion in that recording of I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore, and he's even cried a bit during live performances of it. Whatever the true story behind Prince and Mayte is, it definitely doesn't seem like his hurt over it was "phony" as you put it. That's a little harsh.

If anything, I thought the songs about relationship turmoil were the most genuine moments on the album.

I really like it, and thats all I'll say

7salles said:

I agree completely. *now I don't need to post that:P*

I can't add anything to what has already been said about this album. Personnally, it was the biggest letdown following the greatest hopes and expectations. Prince had an entire decade of getting some leeway from me...even as a fan, you have to aknowledge deep down that you're embracing some sub-standard material (C&D, NPS). But you learn to love it, and continue to think the next album will be the one that really delivers.

It sounds self-deceptive, but you can learn to love a lacklustre album. I'm not going to get back the hours I spent trying to like this one; I gave it another try a month ago and 3/4 through I just gave up and realized there are more satisfying ways to torture my ears. It has gone in the 'see what $ I can get on trade-in" bin...

DanceWme said:

PurpleKnight said:

Aaah, Princey That's so sad that I feel like hugging him.

lol. i just remembered how they kept saying on Love4OneAnother
that prince was recording a song a day for this album and that
is was going to be his new sign o the times.

On a year that was really his, he couldn't have fucked it up more if he had tried. Start the year with a horrible 'remaster'. Do practically nothing for the rest of the year. See Santana sell a shitload and copy him. Eff up the single release by delaying the video, still don't tour. Whine about the label not getting radio support, whine about No Doubt not letting you release So Far So Pleased. Make a poor concert in your rehearsal space and broadcast that. A fucking shambles.

I thought the album was pretty decent. I don't think it's his worst.

What are you on Crack or something? I admit the album is confusing at times but not like you put it. I think at this point in his life he was clearly at a crossroad and was confused just as much as us. Main point, credits on the back performed by and produced by Prince. But even this is not his worst album. I rather enjoyed it (some of it anyway). Clearly the high points are the title track, "Undisputed"w/ Chuck D., "Man 'O' War", "Greatest Romance..", and the bonus track James Brown riff "Prettyman". If Prince heard you say that about this album he probably burn your drawers with you in it. Even he knows this is not his best nor his worst. I know some Prince albums that are even way worse than this. They'll make this one feel like a family barbeuce. Just in case you were wondering here are the real worst albums by Prince.
1. Chaos and Disorder
2. Rainbow Children
3. Friends for Sale..music from the vault
Those are my picks and I'm sticking with them. At one time I thought his very first LP "For You" was his worst for a long.long,long time until he came out with these. But even that album(which isn't bad for an 18 year old rookie) has it high points as well as low like "Rave.." does. But much, much, much better than the 3 I've mention. So, if you stop drinking for a moment and go back to what I said and look at those 3 albums than you will agree with me. So do it and gewt back to me later. May you live to see the dawn. Idiot!

shesjustababy82 said:

OMG...I know this is kinda off topic but I LOVE your avatar...I am in LOVE with the look he was wearing in this pic.

purple knight, made a lot of good points with which I have to agree.

Rave has those gems which PK mentions. Considering the grievious personal problems prince had at that time, I see it (the album) as a

truly heroic attempt.

The concert was mind blowing! (still a little dogged down with the "all star celebrity line up guest list what d'you want to call it -thing")!. The man himself was fantastic.

TRC was one of his very finest
News was delicious. A non-commercial bit'o' funk fun.

I've been a big fan since '84. Now, I'm a bit dissappointed that the man still strives to be in the "top ten". He's capable of so much more. Perhaps prince is limited after all.

All said. I'D love to get hold of the rave into remix. Can anyone tell me where I can order it and what are the track listings?

ThataintFunky said:

I agree with Thataintfunky about the being disappointed. Actually, mine started much earlier with ATWIAD. My first listen to UTCM was disapointment as well. At first sight, I LOVED Signs album cover and like all of the previous albums before, I bought the first day it was released. Even though the title track was getting some airplay, I thought the song was o.k. I at least understood where P was coming from with the lyrics and tone of the song. It was fitting for the times. The rest of Signs sounded like exactly what it was; Different planned projects thrown onto one album. Very much like The White Album by The Beatles. No coincidence that his next planned album was "The Black Album", an obvious play on words to The White Album. A shame that Prince did not tour the U.S. with this album. He had a movie attached to this, there is no way in hell he shouldn't have capitolized on this by touring. Counting the Black Album, which I feel was a planned bootleg album from the get and Lovesexy, which at least Prince was serious about, Rave, like others have said, SHOULD have been a blockbuster. That year, in the minds of everyone, Prince already owned. EVERYBODY had Prince and his glorious song "1999" on the brain. Prince was an artist that the general public looked to for escapism. Very much like Bowie in the 70's, that's what Prince represented in the 90's. People looked to and expected Prince to lift them out of the whack ass, negative, boring music that plagued the music scene. Prince instead, turned his back on the expectation. Prince had strove to be "that" artist that everyone; from the general public, his fans and even others in the entertainment world, had looked to to "bring it". And then when Prince got to that very place, he side stepped it. Prince by then was all about the "I'm an artist. I do as I wish." vibe. Which in many ways, is selfish. He not only came across as "fuck the record companies" but "and fuck my audience too'. He wanted u to love him BUT on his terms. It appeared as Prince wanted to control his audience just like he might would his women. I'll put songs that I KNOW are good right alongside songs that I KNOW are bad. I'll hold out on them. That'll show them." The "them" being his fans and the general public. Prince wanted the pop success but at the same time, being avant. He actually showed signs of this back with ATWIAD.

I know, some peeps will disagree, but IMO Prince had his biggest career dip between 1996 and 2001, and Rave was 'just a part' of that period.

I mean, look at the following:

Emancipation: great songwriting / composing on at least 10 tracks, but the set is put down by the plastic production and, of course, by the fact that 3 CD's is just way too long for a wellknown artist trying to reclaim his position.

New Power Soul: quickly released because Emancipation didnt perform very well on the charts, and it shows: the most weak, dull record released by him via 'normal' record distribution.

Crystal Ball: aimed at the real fans, but not what the fans suspected: too many mediocre cuts from the nineties, to less real gems from the eighties that still have to be released in a proper way (In all my dreams, Theres others here with us, The girl of my dreams, to name a few).

Rave: a forced attempt at a comeback: why using celebrity appearances, when they are mixed down mostly? why still play FM-rock kind of songs, when the days of Toto and Foreigner are something of the 'cheesy' eighties? where is the spark, the urgency, the fire? In short, Rave is not much better then New Power Soul, the only redeeming quality are a few acoustic ballads, that show at least some personal / emotional growth.

The internet releases: 'things' like the chocolate invasion are of course a disgrace for one of the potentially most gifted popular musicians ever. Albums like these show Prince on autopilot, tired, dull, where is the heart? the urgency?

Rainbow children: by far the most overrated Prince-album among Prince fans IMO, sure, the music is more organic, jazzy sounding, a change of direction after a few years of plastic Kirky J. production, but is it therefore more soulfull? I dont think so, Prince sounds lost and alienated in his own silly ramblings about being a JW, this album carries some of the most dumb, dogmatic lyrics ever released by a mainstream artist, and finally, the annoying Darth Vader voice kills the pleasure of listening to the different songs.

NEWS: how much more obscure can you get? Release 4 way too long jazz-funk jams, with interesting passages, but which ultimately go nowhere? The first madhouse album was quite pleasant, mixing organic songs with more electronic tracks, diverse en enjoyable, the cracks began to show allready on the second Madhouse CD, way too minimalistic and lacking musical idea's, and with one original idea during a 5 minute song, you can indeed speak of a boring jam. News takes that direction even further, concluding into well played, but utterly boring jams.

And, what happened after that?

I wouldnt consider both musicology and 3121 great albums, they are good, decent at least. The production isnt very convincing (Musicology sounds like Prince thought, hey, I just record this songs, but dont produce them, 3121 tries to sound retro, but often doesnt succeed, sounding halfbaked and dated), but at least Prince is trying to focus on composing songs with a head and a tail, he occasionaly shows some heart and soul in the delivery, and he tones down a bit on the JW-message. Next to that his live performances during TV-shows and on the musicology tour often sound spirited, and he has improved as both a live singer and guitar player.

Concluding: the period 1996 - 2001 IMO were his worst years untill know, releasing records that could be labelled as 3 - 6 out of 10, and ocassionaly inspiring live moments, the period 2002 - 2006 i consider an improvement, both musicology and 3121 at least worth a 7 out of 10, and showing a more relaxed, inspiring live performer in general.

Some further comment:

I saw somebody here calling the 'Batman' soundtrack as the first real Prince disappointment.
At the moment of its release i did consider it as a dissapointment myselve, it seemed like a throwback, Prince doing '1999' again, after the busy brilliance Lovesexy offered me.

In retrospect that soundtrack might have sounded as a dissapointment at the time of release, but when you compare it to releases like New Power Soul and The Chocolate Invasion, its a little gem in his catalogue.

The main fault of Batman is maybe 'the arms of orion', a too sappy / Streisand kind of ballad, i would love to see replaced by the original version of Rave unto the joy fantastic (as performed during the The Hague - Small club bootleg)

But apart from that 'mistake', i think the combination of (black) humor and sometimes dark lyrics suits the movie very well, the fact that the guitar solo's, choir parts and orchestral elements are all sampled, gives the record a kind of claustrophobic, dark feel, redeemed by some humor in the lyrics. And the battle between the 'good' and 'bad' elements of Princes psyche, is a (bleak) continuation of the kind of themes Prince was dealing with on Lovesexy.
These kind of elements give the 'Batman' album a depth and edge, that is lacking from releases like New Power Soul and The chocolate invasion.

Concluding: in retrospect, Batman really isnt a bad record, its a little gem even, 9/10 IMO.

PurpleKnight said:

That's FOUR (4) metafors! Well done!

MartyMcFly said:

correction: four similes.


im such an english nerd