theC said:

Fear of death is something all living creatures have in common. This fear is highly interwoven with the survival instinct. if a deer wouldn't feel fear when approached by a lion, it would not have enough self defense "mechanism" (which is given to it by intuition).
The risk would then be huge that the deer population wouldn't survive, since they will all being slaughtered because of an utter lack of fear. sounds funny, but true, no?


-
[This message was edited Sun Aug 18 17:59:46 PDT 2002 by Abrazo]

Abrazo said:

2 much animal planet...

all animals have the flight vs fight reaction

all the murders on the news...

we are animals

I'm also technically an existentialist, but I find it hard to say there is no good or evil... I guess it depends how you define those words. To me, they are just other words for "right" and "wrong".

Was the Rape of Nanking evil? I believe so. If you accept that ethics matter, then you have to decide what is morally wrong and morally right. While each of us has his/her own views on what is ethically defensible, the absence of a consensus on what is right or wrong does not mean that these concepts do not exist. Indeed, only extremely sick or impaired individuals actually live their lives without at least an idea of what is ethical.

As for Quantum Physics, I just hope it's as good as the original series.

Aerogram said:

depends if u see he human race as animals...

in the animal kingdom there r no morals...

I like blue.

ADORA said:

That's because animals, in general, are not viewed as having a conscience. Note some zoologists and animal lovers view some species has having something akin, or at least they are intrigued by the possibility that some higher mammals might have something of an embryonic conscience... Still, only we humans are seen as having the cognitive skills required to think ethically.

Ice Nine has now given me a headache. It must suck to be this smart. Now if you would just stop using all your intellect for Satan, you could do some great work for Jesus. Jesus needs your help Ice Nine.

waterhead said:

Not since I ate him...

Aerogram said:

Describe to me the differance between 3/4 of the prison population and a lion??


cognitive skills hardly equal morals...


we are all animals... its just how quick we kill either emotions, ideas, or lives

Icenine, You made some good points and I agree with most
of what you are saying, but I think Larry had everything
to do with Prince becoming JW. He lost his baby, the love
of his life and both his parents all within a few years.
and Larry asked him Do you want to see them again on this
earth?, which is hogwash.

God is the one that said everyone must pass on not the devil,ifa paradise earth could not work out with
two people on it, how could it work a second time with
all the JWs?

We all want Prince to be happy and be at peace, but there are many christian religions.

JWs separate themselves from the rest of the "worldly people", and can't you all see what is already happening?

These people are going to move him further away from his gift, which is his music, which would be a sin in itself

His clothes are completely different.

When was the last Friday night party? You might not ever see
one of these again.

He moved to Canada.

All the JWs I know and I know a lot of them, tell me Prince is going to quit.

At one of the DC concerts in March of this year he said and I quote " I want to thank Larry and Tina Graham for showing
me how to read the bible right"

and than a few people booed. and than he said " sometimes I feel like I want to quit" and started to go on when everybody said nooo.

Besides that, who on this org thinks Larry is more intelligent than Prince? Prince should be telling him.

The JWs really stress that scripture about 'Go out from among them'

They think of all the JWs as GodsSheep and call nonJWs Goatsand think we are all goingt down in Everlasting destrustion.

I won't even go on about if he ever needed a blood transfusion or a organ transplant to save his life.

If Prince didn't attend his parents funerals,( I know this is his personal business and maybe it was too sad for him)
but if he stayed away because they werenot held in a Kingdom Hall, these people can influence him to stay away from anything, or do anything.

So don't be surprised when you hear less of him and see less of him.

Would all the JWs pleasen not send me an org note. Thankyou.

Aerogram's words are good on this topic. Most of us try to place the id at a higher level than the superego, or at least try to compromise the two, and to accomplish either, we have to stifle the conscience which, as we all know, is easy to do. That explains the prison population and the rest of us who daily break some type of ethical laws/rules.

lovebird, would it really b a sin 2 remove Prince from his music if it's a time/mind-consuming addiction that keeps him from having a strong relationship with God outside of music? Or would it not b okay if Prince is able 2 use his music as a way 2 fulfill God's purpose? Who or what do u think he consults 2 see if he's on the Right path? Man or God? If anyone "moves" Prince away from his music, it will b God alone and Prince's choice 2 obey.

RippleAffect said:

___
SensualMelody said:

Absolutely!!!
Who here thinks that it is sometimes good to rape and kill little children???
Could that be right depending on one's perspective?
Or when is it ok to break in your neighbor's house, kill
him and take his belongings???
Clearly SOME things are just WRONG!-even evil!

Who thinks it's wrong to help an aged parent?
or to give thanks for good deed rendered?
Who thinks it's wrong to share your good fortune
with a friend who falls in need?
Some things are just right!- good, even!

However I do appreciate the tenor of this thread as to
respecting the beliefs of others and allowing each person
space to explore his own opportunities for finding
contentment.

Peace

-

Freespirit said:

Its often said that animals cannot think about the fact that they r thinking... so not having indicative abilities 2 concur with good or evil ... they know no shame. Reaction by inner urge, primitiveness render them fully discovered & (in a way) innocent of sophistication (HUMAN sophistication if u wanna label it) ... they yearn & learn but have a etheral history, philosophy & psychology all their own... hmmm u know I think they r more in tune with themselves than we will ever be, they dont have 2 think 2 find themselves, they r what they r not what they know.

I personally believe they r the furry answers 2 children, unlike us they cannot choose 2 react with anything other than feelings/sense, a value system of order does not exist with them, they r productive in different ways, ways that keep them going without competition, selfishness, impurity.

I always find myself asking: do they have a conscience? ... & my reach of this subject is no closer than my grasp lol ... but ive heard it all mostly “oh contraires” that view being: “their biggest existence of right & wrong is in their wins & losses in survival ... might is not right ... its every animal 4 themselves.” Sounds chaotic but in a good way lol ... 1 thing is 4 sure, its apparent that their mind frame differentiates but its not as if there isnt some of them in us ... DUH evolution of man, we were once small 2 lol ... i just meant that u can c the obvious similarities ... I know they do form communities with different races (if u would) but they cannot destroy one another (plan a sin) in ways that we can "choose" 2 (intellectual power is not needed), they pursue cravings but dont have any grip on intent (they live with pleasure not ungodly 4 it) ... so in regards 2 your question ...

When a lion kills its prey does it know it wants 2 eat it: YES

Does it know why: YES because its hungry lol ...

Does it know why its hungry: NO

But does it do it 4 the purpose of power or 2 inflict cruelty: NO (b/c they cannot actually question or give answers... they feel their way through life)

... if the answer was YES 2 the above than doing what u have 2 do would be a crime & we may as well start charging them 4 oxygen! (doing what u have 2 do under the constitution of life ... [with reason] eating breathing r examples ... animals live with a inherit drive 2 survive tis all).

I gotta say I believe animals r just as important as us ... they r of allot of help & they also live with sacrifice (so dont tell me they r not of strength) everyday mostly b/c of us but their world is still turning now isnt it ... everything happens 4 a reason... unless u r a hunter ... totally no need 4 that

errrg blasted people stunting growth by extracting more from the earth ... who r freaking afraid not 2 be justified the dominant ones
hunters/furiers/murders

lol silly me ...

2 end just thought id note that i always pose/give answers from the top of my head ... obviously we will never have the full TRUTH (in front of us) figured out ... but I tried hehe

“Animals & children never lie, which one is more human u decide.”

Anyway hehe I got carried away, some1 remind me what the real topic was LOL ...



DAMN devil of the org makin me edit...
[This message was edited Sun Aug 18 23:57:27 PDT 2002 by harmony]

lovebird said:

You hit so many points on the Head, Prince needs to read this!!!

Housequake2K2 said:

for me his music has always been about a spiritual journey - questioning received moral values; and now it seems his search has led him full-circle - back to the more conservative, bible-based values of a typically religious black background. i don't think it can ever been that his decision to become JW was not well thought-out... the spiritual thought process involved in making this decision has been going on for decades.

Great post, IceNine Everyone's "TRUTH" is their own.

lovebird said:

i don't think prince is anywhere near "quitting," whatever that means. are you saying he's planning to stop making music? this sounds like crazy talk to me.

prince is obviously doing what makes him happy. if it depresses you (as it seems to) perhaps you aren't getting the point... this is his individual journey. i find him more positive than ever. i'm sure he will probably keep right on doing what makes him happy for a long, long time.

If everyone owns Truth, then Truth is not its own. No matter what we or they may think, Truth stands alone.

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. Matthew 8:22

and to divert attention away from the one being remembered would be unfair. The family of God goes back for ages, and one day soon we will ALL be united in everlasting LIFE.

Truth is a mystery that continues 2 thrive
despite false hope and affectionate lies.
Truth is far stronger than thieves recognize
when hidden... it's revealed
when attacked... it revives.

Truth, like Love, can never b killed
it's a Divine attribute that stabs and then heals
like balm 4 the soul and peace 4 the mind
when buried... it rises
when twisted... unwinds.

(c) "Ripple Affect" 1996/1997


My gift 2 u. Now if we could only have more threads like this one, we could sow healthy seeds. ...rise, Rise, RISE!

RippleAffect said:

Where does arrogence fit in 2 morals
Mr or Ms Ripple??

SensualMelody said:[quote]

RippleAffect said:

___
SensualMelody said:

Absolutely!!!
Who here thinks that it is sometimes good to rape and kill little children???
Could that be right depending on one's perspective?
Or when is it ok to break in your neighbor's house, kill
him and take his belongings???
Clearly SOME things are just WRONG!-even evil!

Who thinks it's wrong to help an aged parent?
or to give thanks for good deed rendered?
Who thinks it's wrong to share your good fortune
with a friend who falls in need?
Some things are just right!- good, even!

However I do appreciate the tenor of this thread as to
respecting the beliefs of others and allowing each person
space to explore his own opportunities for finding
contentment.

Peace


-----

SensualMelody,

You are right-ON.

If one comes from a dysfunctional family, one where there was abuse, verbally, or physcially, sometimes that tormented circle continues. Does this make it right? No, hopefully people can learn from experiences, and seek help. Many do.

If one lives in a country and learns at a early age to HATE others, is this right? No. This person is a victim themselves in their own surroundings, taught it is ok to HATE. Another vicious CIRCLE of hate that exists.

If one shows disrespect for someone because of color, looks, size, sex, religion, etc. etc., is this right. NO

Humans can weave a tangled web of all sorts of nasty things. I think we are in need of some cleaning.

We are a product of our environment, with faith and the help of God we can see the light. Listen to your heart, and the spirit, for evil and good are in a WAR.

IceNine this is a good topic to discuss, I feel you are compassionate!
[This message was edited Mon Aug 19 8:50:26 PDT 2002 by EchoOfMySoul]

Great post IceNine.

I disagree with one thing, Prince did not search out his spirituality because of his recent losses.

It has always been in his heart, and in his life. That has been evident in his song writing.

Larry was summoned by Prince! And taught Prince what Prince wanted to know. Have you heard this saying "When the student is ready the teacher will come." I know you have because you have read Tao.

One more thing, some aging do look for answers, but then there are those of us who have been searching our whole lives.

Icenine...


IS A SEXY BITCH!


***

sag10 said:

And then, there are those who stop seeking "meaning" of that order with age. I was more preoccupied with these things when I was in my teens or early twenties. But then again, I always seem to do things backward. Somehow, the world is less pregnant with meaning than it was even when I swore only by the existentialist credo... scary huh?

ADORA said:

The difference is that animals kill for survival. Most of the convicts imprisoned for murder did not kill for survival, but for their own selfishness.

Prince is just an old fart. all old people get religion late in their life because the know the party is over and they can't do what they use to.

they get all religious cuz they old ass going to hell for all the shit they did.

JediMaster said:

selfish or arrogance?

male lions will kill the cubs of other dominate males..

its all a continum...

humans r just more vain

ADORA said:

They kill the cubs due to the reproduction imperative -- to pass on their genes -- since a lioness with young cubs will not mate. This is instinctive behavior, something not every lion needs to do, but will do if he wins a bout over a female that has cubs.

Animals simply cannot be compared with humans when it comes to ethics because they have no reason to counter primitive instinct. Humans do, due to language, civilisation, etc.
[This message was edited Mon Aug 19 12:40:19 PDT 2002 by Aerogram]

thechronic said:

You silly ass fool!