'Back to the Future' of Cars
Friday, August 09, 2002

By Mike Straka




NEW YORK — The future is a subject that has fascinated great imaginations. H.G. Well's The Time Machine, George Orwell's 1984 and Philip K. Dick's Minority Report all offer images of what the future will bring. In some cases the fiction does eventually become reality.

One of the latest drives to bring the future closer to today is being led by General Motors and it's a drive toward a hydrogen-based economy.

"The next automotive revolution will be based on hydrogen powered fuel cells," said David Barthmuss, GM manager of its Energy/Environment and Sustainability staff. "We think that fuel cell vehicles will do to today's cars what our cars did to the horse and buggy a hundred years ago."

A bold goal, but one that has more than just environmental benefits if it can be pulled off.

"Fuel cell technology is the wave of the future," said President Bush during a speech on the environment back in February. "This dependence on foreign oil is a matter of national security. To put it bluntly, we rely upon energy sources that don't particularly like us."

Bush was referring to countries in the troubled Middle East, where much of the world's oil is concentrated.

But Washington knows there are several bumps in the road that the automotive industry needs to smooth over before fuel cell technology is viable.

The Hydrogen1, a GM prototype that runs entirely on fuel cell technology, for example, comes with a current price tag of well over a million dollars -- taking research and development into account. That is a sticker price consumers can't roll with.

"We've got to bring the cost down," said Neil Schilke, General Director of Engineering at GM's Public Policy Center and a leader of the GM Tech Tour, which is rolling through several U.S. cities this summer.

"It's an exciting time to be an automotive engineer if you look at the fact that the automobile industry is going to change over the next few decades," said Schilke. "Fuel cell technology is a way to bring hydrogen technology to the world."

He added that hydrogen technology is also environmentally sound.

"You can do several different things to get hydrogen. You can extract it from gasoline or from natural gas by reforming those fuels," he said. "And the only emissions from the fuel cell is heat and water, so it's as environmentally friendly as they come."

Then why are auto industry insiders skeptical?

"It's going to be decades before we can afford it," said Car and Driver editor-in-chief Csaba Csere.

Csere said basic needs like refueling stations will cost big bucks to transition to hydrogen and won't be worth the price or the effort if hydrogen is extracted from petrochemicals, like it is today.

"You can manufacture the hydrogen from methanol, which is a liquid like gasoline and a lot easier to store on the car," Csere said. "But then you basically have a mini refinery on board which adds to the complication and expense." Also, "they need a catalytic material in order to combine the hydrogen and oxygen to make electricity. It's typically platinum and it costs twice as much per ounce than gold does."

These are issues fuel cell researchers are aware of, and willing to tackle.

"We (GM) are spending hundreds of millions of dollars," Barthmuss said. "We want to be the first automobile maker to sell one million fuel cell vehicles. We don't want to be the company that has a vacuum tube when the world is using transistors."

One of the innovations designed around fuel cell technology is a futuristic looking vehicle called the Autonomy. Depending on its owner's whim, it can carry the body of a sports car or a pickup truck.

"We can design a vehicle around the fuel cell without any mechanical constraints," said Schilke. "Electronic motors drive the wheels, and all systems are controlled electronically, including steering. It's the ultimate in (drive-)by-wire technology, similar to an aircraft."

"The technology clearly works," said Csere. "We've been using it in spacecraft for forty some years, so that's not the issue. The issue is making it work at a reasonable cost."

As the saying goes, "where there's a will, there's a way."

There U go, flexing that gray matter again!
U know me, so all I can reply is...lah-dee-dah.
1+1+1=3 is about all the technology I can handle
on a Saturday afternoon.

Prince did take us to the movies at celly to
see minority report but my roommate decided that
we could not stay and see it if we wanted to be
fresh for meeting Sunday at Kingdom Hall (thanks,
Mom, U were right).

Anyway, to whom are U addressing this topic?
Have U forgotten where we are?
This topic has none of the essentials for a long
discussion i.e.; sex, Prince, Larry Graham, or
whining...Oh well, someone may be interested.

SensualMelody:

-

Very interestin, but i doubt it will happen as organisations and government will not wann 2 lose out on there billions, by sellin fuel. Hydrogen is much more accessable and cheaper 2 obtain.

Sam

Yes we all know what is needed including the "powers that be" yet it won't happen for a long tie. Why? One word special intrest groups" well ok three words. Anyway it will be fought tooth an nail as certain individuals stand to loose mega bucks. As you saild this is a dream for the future when there is no need to worry about financing it in the meentime I will sit and watch the polar ice caps melt as "non existant" global warming continues unabated.(Sigh)

You all get the point. It is do-able! What stops it? Greed. Money issues created by the system. That is why I alluded to the time when this will not be an issue. Under God's kingdom. People always ask things like: "what will paradise be like? Will we have cars? How will we be able to do ___ (various things) without creating pollution that will ruin the earth?" Well, this is but a minute example of what we will be able to accomplish as a perfect race of humans that live eternally. Just think...If some imperfect group of limited funded people now after a few decades of life can come up with this, imagine what will be possible for us all on that plain when our minds are allowed to develop past their present restrictions. What will you or I be able to invent or improve after living without aging for 500 years...1000...8000 years...you get the point. Just struck me as interesting.

Keep an open mind. Think about what you will do in paradise!

It's been possible for a long time. Jimmy Carter tried to ween us off foreign energy and they crucified him for it. The more i reflect on Jimmy, the more I realize that he's the only US leader I've ever known for whom I posess anything resembling reverence or respect. We HAD a man of character and integrity in The White House and we hated him for it, but that's another thread.

Alternative energy WILL get done, but only at the last minute when there is no other alternative. Some other things we'll see "when money is no object":

Pigs flying
Hell freezing over
Monkeys flying out of my ass

PLEASE do not pretend that "God's Kingdom", and the churches that proliferate this message, do not consider finance. I live in JAcksonville, Florida and the First Baptist Church here is business as big as it gets. A great gig, if you can get it: huge revnues, political clout and absolutely NO TAXES! Utterly brilliant, and having absolutely nothing to do with God.

Funny you should mention that. The point many do not think about is this...The churches have turned their backs on God's Kingdom. When is the last time you heard churches mention that? C'mon now. Instead, as ancient Israel in Isaiah's day, they have chosen unholy alliances with business and man-ruled government. Show me one of the so-called mainstream Christian churches today that has not accepted the U.N. as "God's Kingdom on Earth" or post their nations' respective flags in their churches like cheap whores. They do not trust in nor are in expectation of God's Kingdom. And for this, Jesus said, they will be left outside in the darkness. Just because an organization or church carries the banner of "Christianity" does not mean Christ accepts them. They have to be doing the will of God.
Matthew 7:16-23 "By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].
“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness."

Money is no object on Star Trek.

Do you think that greed is instinctual or learned? I'd say the former. As long as that's the case, money and ownership will ALWAYS be issues, like it or not - and I don't like it all. Our money itself bears God's name, and yes, we truly do worship it it seems.


But I think churches have done this as well, throughout history and almost entirely without exception.
[This message was edited Mon Aug 12 18:28:28 PDT 2002 by herbthe4]

Instinctual or not, that's one of the great things about being human. We can unlearn what is instinctual for our own benefit or that of others. If we have the inclination to steal, we are not forced into a life of theft. If we have inherited an addictive personality, we are not doomed to a life of drug abuse and alcoholism. If we are inclined to do anything as if some primal urge is beckoning us, we as humans have the makeup that if we so choose, we can do the opposite.
The main reason why so much un-constructive behavior seems to be so inborn into us, is because we are all imperfect and have inherited that. Our makeup is flawed now. We are not the beings we were meant to be. When that is corrected and the ransom sacrifice that Jesus paid takes effect, we will be able to live life the way we were meant to live. All these things, the obvious ailments and the not so obvious at times, will be things of the past. Greed will be replaced with concearn for others. Hate with love. Racism and prejudice with impartiality. We will no longer have to battle our own flesh or outside Satanic influence. And, to top off the list, we will be governed justly by the government that was meant to do so from the begining. God's kingdom. Not some pin-head man ruling. This was God's original purpose for humans and the earth and it has not changed. Soon it will be realized.

Bibleteacher89 said:

LOL!! You know that fuel cell technology was created by us imperfect human types.... You guys have to be the only ones I know that would take godly credit for a man made device! This thread is so unbelievably funny that I dont think that you even realize it!

Why would you need a car in utopia? Everything is already perfect, so what good would a car be! And who cares about fuel for that matter in a perfect place?!

Come on!!!

DCM

dcm said:

Indeed. Have you noticed that since the advent of the Industrial Revolution, we always seem to be one invention away from solving all of our problems? Usually it seems we spend mst of our time trying to combat and recitify the damage done from the last invention that was supposed to fix everything.

Everyone notice how much simpler and easier everything is these days?

Remember how the automobile was supposed to make our lives so much easier and simpler? Television? It would educate our children and open up communication and the exchange of information. Computers? the internet? Same thing. Now all we do is blame TV for rotting the minds of our children and provide avenues to fame for the likes of Jerry Springer, Anna Nicole Smith, Geraldo Rivera and Howard Stern. 50% of internet traffic goes directly to pornography and the other half is used to perpepuate lies and "facts" that have no credibility, stupid chain e-mail rumors, flame wars, photos of dead NASCAR drivers and the increasingly pervasive and ugly monster known as advertising. Junk e-mail anyone?

Notice how educated everyone is these days? Notice how much reliable information we have access to? Notice how few mistakes are made with accounting? How about all of those deseases that are being cured and our skyrocketing literacy rate? Not to mention the tremendously positive effect all of these things have had on our economy and our professional lives.

Me neither. Now that's progress.

You guys are missing the point. I'm not talking about Honna Lee utopia with Puff the Magic Dragon where everyhing resembles scenes from "What Dreams May Come"...C'mon. I'm talking reality that we haven't gotten to yet. It's still earth. We'll still need to get around and do stuff.

The point I was making was when we see stuff like this seep out in the media, (and there are plenty more examples we don't hear about) is that when we reach human perfection...or even approaching it, how we will be able to do things that now seem only like a distant dream. The things we will be able to invent then will make the stuff our so-called geniuses of today look like child's play. C'mon. Think outside the box. Stop being blinded with what Satan wants you to think is reality. We are fed what we believe is possible for us. We are told over and over from the time we can remember that we have limitations and some things are just out of reach. Well...SNAP OUT OF IT!! There is a life out there we haven't even scratched the surface of.

When we are 6,984 years old.

Let that sink in hard because I just blew someone's mind...

When we are six thousand, nine hundred-eighty-four years old...how smart will we be? Think about it! C'mon, use your head! We will be working with things that technology hasn't even thought of yet. BUT, (and here's the kicker) greed and money will not be a concearn. Therefore, we will not have to cut corners to save money that will affect our bottom line. Our transportation will not pollute and ruin the planet. Our crops will not have chemicals that give us cancer and poison our water, yet we will experience bumper crops. Everyone will have enough to eat. Our homes will be comfortable without using energy that eats holes in atmospheric layers. In short, we will have achieved the level of humanity, not utopia, that God purposed us to have. With all that in mind, we will not have crime. Can you imagine your front door without 3 locks? Without 1? Can you picture being able to conduct you daily activities without worrying or fearing another human, no matter what time of day it is or what neigborhood you are in, or what color your skin is or whether you are male or female? EVER?

Let that sink in. I may sound like I'm on something and not nice enough to share...but that is what I can realisticly picture. It is so real to me I can taste it right now. With enough knowledge...and a little faith (not credulity) you could too. 8)

Bibleteacher89 said:

LOLOLOLOLOLOL


I hate to quote movies but have you ever seen "Demolition Man" Wesley Snipes tells the guy running Los Angeles "Now I know who you remind me of.. An Evil Mr. Rogers!"

DCM

That's your response, huh? Guess you just don't want to be there. That's ok. God knows what he's doing. He'll make sure all who deserve to be there are there. I hope to be among them. The invite has been sent. Will you be there?

Bibleteacher89 said:

Blech, I sure wouldnt want to be anywhere near you guys!

Its a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day to be neighbors, would you be mine? Will you be there?...




DCM

Hee Hee!! I saw your other little racial harmony rant in paradise get shut down and locked out! Seems Im not the only one tired of your religious crapola!!
[This message was edited Thu Aug 15 9:50:23 PDT 2002 by dcm]

dcm said:

We would NOT want to be around people like you neither But we ALL DO need racial harmony.
[This message was edited Fri Aug 16 17:16:22 PDT 2002 by SisterGirl]

SisterGirl said:

If you didnt then why reply to my message, hmmm? I think that you DO want to be like me and the rest! Just admit it. Or else you wouldnt be knocking on our doors, pestering us with your religious sociobabble!! Get outta here and go kiss BT98's butt as you often do!

DCM

Having money only creates a desire for more money,no matter how much is never enough.The gap between the havs and have nots widens,this is something that has been troubling me a great deal of late.

You know something is screwed up when a painting sells for £50,000,000

There has to be a better way , much love Pochacco

yep this doesn't exactly qualify as "prince - music and more"...

... and anyway, i thot you were "hasta la bye bye"...