Not only was he a hottie but his mind was just as attractive and he seemed VERY passionate about his causes and ideas. In interviews he opened up alot about why he thought the music buisness was going in an irresponsible direction, why lack or spirtuality in one's life can be harmful, his explination of why he felt artists are taken advantage of. He seemed like a very knowledgeble person that has learned alot over his over twenty years in that buisness and had alot of things to say and educate people about. I feel like over the last few years he has toned down his "message" to artists and young people about things they should open their eyes to. I remember thinking also in 1999 how music on the radio/MTV was becoming very uninspiring, superficial, and exploitive. My genertaion was becoming something I didn't want to be apart of. I remember feeling pretty angry about the riots at Woodstock too when I heard about it...but then again what would they expect when they had Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock playing? It seemed like rap and rock music had become too angry, macho, and just seemed like all they were catering too were angry, dumb frat boys. I remember thinking this to myself back then...but I loved how Prince actually pointed it out and tried to counteract all that with a song/video like the "Greatest Romance ever sold" on TRL and try to get young people to understand a genteler way for men to treat women and vice versa and how love is the only thing really furfills someone's life. I'm not saying I think Prince doesn't have a mysognistic streak...I think there is defenatly some ???? with some of the things he has said regarding women and how his past girlfriends have described him but I least his music doesn't encourage men at concerts to practicaly rape crowd surfing women.

I was not listening to Prince at this time nor I don't remember seeing him on TV then but it's nice to know looking back that there was someone who spoke up on these things and pointed them out. Some fans I'm sure thought of him as super preachy, Larry hypnotised or whatever but I think he has taught me alot in an indirect way through his music and words. He has a beautiful mind.

Krystal666 said:

Not really. I think he was super cool before that period. he seems to getting cooler now. At least a little looser.

It's nice that he had a cause, but I really can't follow it.

Interesting post...

As far as I'm concerned, Prince has completely lost his cool - he's become a pessimistic, conservative, arrogant man.

He used to shatter stereotypes - gender and racial stereotypes in particular. His music used to preach salvation and positivity and a higher power but these days he's changed. Now he preaches the bible, jehovah, theocractic orders which suggest that the hierachy of life is God, then Man, then woman and children!! He's taken on very conservative values - but most importantly, he misses the feeling music gave him back in the day - I agree with the last one, especially with his music.

Poor Prince - he needs less 'yes' men and more people who are willing to challenge his conservative values.

Krystal666 said:

Nope. Stop right there.

jayARDAHB said:

Yup.

no, i really don't. this is the low-point in Prince's career. he'd dug himself into a dead-end hole during this period. but musically, at least, he pulled himself out of it with TRC

Mayte probably didn't, MANie probably did...

I think that the production of the tracks for the NPGMC made him super cool, yes.

Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic

He looked pretty good during that era, I admit. Not always his outfit choices, but I guess he was just being "the handsome man" otherwise with the unshaved face and all. I think that quite often he finds it a bit awkward trying to look too handsome in a masculine way and retreads to his weirder looks once in a while.

It seemed like Prince was going through a metamorphosis around that time. Unshaven with multi braids one day and styling as Prettyman the next

I disagree. Your observations of how Prince has "changed" versus how he "used to be" are all very speculative and based on interpretation. Granted, that's the name of the game around here, but you make some big leaps without a whole lot to back it up. One could easily see Prince in a different light than you, In fact, I don't think Prince has changed all that much.

1st of all, Prince has always been arrogant. From the very start he knew he was the shit. Just watch his "interview" with Dick Clark on American Bandstand. So Prince more is arrogant now? American Bandstand snubbing Dick Clark in 1980 = American Idol snubbing Simon Cowel in 2006. What's the big deal? Same Prince, different year.

2ndly, Prince is pessimistic? Do you get this from interviews? His view on the current state of music? His distain with how the music business is run? Surely you didn't get this from his music.

If anything, Prince's music is more positive than ever, both lyrically and productionwise. Prince's music was much more dark, sinister, and paranoid in the 80's. His views about relationships were often based in mistrust, jealousy, insecurity and lust. Nowadays, Prince's lyrics suggest a man who has found the joys of sex,trust, a more spiritual love, and (sometimes) monogamy. Also, Prince usually gravitates to a less dissonant sound than he has in the past. The production of his music is much more warm than it was mechanical and cold in the past.

As far as Prince being more conservative---I agree. However, who doesn't become more conservative with age? Also, understand this, conservative for Prince is still way out there for most. If conservative is not sporting assless pants, or bikini briefs on stage, but leaving the heels and the make up on, then that that is not very conservative at all. Face it, to most, Prince is still a freak

Bottom line: Our views of Prince come mostly from his music. Thematically, Prince is preaching the same purple gospel he always has. It's still about sex, God, love, and music.

Now you have to ask yourself: Is it Prince that a lot changed or you and your perception of him.
[Edited 6/11/06 10:18am]

skywalker said:

First of all - great points and all of them taken!! Thanks for your response...

You're right about a lot of things - in regards to the arrogance though I see it like this. Back in the day, Prince used to preach about God, love and getting laid and all that but things were different than in that he seemed to not give a crap about personal preference. He believed in the ability to choose for ones self. Now, he let's God or Jehovah choose - that's a whole different perspective on things.

The American Bandstand Prince wasn't trying to be arrogant - he was trying to play around and be mysterious. The American Idol Prince posted on his website not to idolize another man or something along those lines then he uses American Idol as a stepping stone to further his career - which is all fine except that he walks off the stage like it's 1986 and that he just killed his performance! Sorry bro - the arrogance is in the fact that he thought he killed the performance.

Many people appear to grow more conservative as they age - regardless of how often it happens, when it does happen it's wack. Prince complains about the feeling music used to give him and he longs for a time when things were easier for him to comprehend. He hasn't been able to keep up with the times and as a result, appears to have grown bitter: "Real Music by Real Musicians" tour. That's bullshit because as much as people want to ignore it, some of the musicians in hip hop are really creating some very, very interesting sound textures!! It's funk music!!

Poor Prince - while he records crap like Life O' The Party now, I also long for that time when Prince used to write music that was inspiring and uplifting. Erotic City anyone? Sexual Suicide?

Poor guy is incredible live but has been hit and miss in the studio for quite some time now. The conservative values shit also needs to go - gender rules and for that matter, all social constructions are just that - constructions. We need to be able to move past all of that - Prince used to represent that. Things have changed - a lot. There are definately similarities but the changes are huge!

What do u think?

Dayspring said:

Quit rewriting history.

Rzeplica said:

whatever Rzeplica is right

Thank you as well.



What evidence do you have that Prince cares about personal preference now? What evidence do you have that only recently he has decided to let God choose? Seems to me that as early as 1989 he was spouting off these lines.. "monogamy and trust is what I'm talking 'bout.." and telling people that they should only have one lover. Seems to me that in 1985 Prince had a whole dialog with "God" in concert with God implicitly laying down rules for behavior, love, and lust. Again, Prince's message is the same as it has been for awhile now.



He wasn't trying to be arrogant on Bandstand? How do you know that? Furthermore, how do you know he was trying to be arrogant on American Idol? Seemed like the typical Prince attitude to me.



That Performance was the best one American Idol has ever seen. Yes, in terms of comparing Prince to one of his past performances from an actual tour--the performance was very much for TV. However, when comparing that performance to anyone else Prince still is on another level. Furthermore, I still don't see how Prince was acting anymore arrogant on this performance than he was on something like the Grammy's or the Hall of Fame.



Wack huh? Well, get ready. Your children aren't going to think that you are as liberal as you do.



I think you are mistaken that Prince' stance on "real music by real musicians" comes from a crotchety old man type of position. The truth is that MANY people are fed up with manufactured music designed to sell things. People are tired of wannabe gangsta kids posing as thugs, fake divas, soundalike lookalike rockers, and pop acts trying trying to be passed off as punk. People are tired of "musicians" making the same tired videos and music. Used to be that musicans all had different personalities, sounds, and looks. Now, in popular music, is very homogenized. Prince's distain for corporate music is an accurate reflection/attitude that many people, young and old, have. You are right, their are some acts that are really brilliant. However, rarely are the most talented/artistic musicians on the radio/tv/top 10.




One man's trash is another man's treasure. I'll take Life O' the party over Sexual Suicide. That's not your taste--is that Prince's fault?



I think that you are still quite avgue in your examples of Prince "changing". I have given you clear examples of how, thematically, he is basically the same. How about you?

no.

jayARDAHB said:

It is obvious that you really dislike P due to his 'conservative values'.
Values that he did not clearly define or write songs about until the late
90's when he became a JW. Somehow, someway, 'conservative values'--i.e monogomy,believing in GOD (the god of the bible), sharing god's love and truth with others, in your eyes is wrong or a 'social construction'.

If P was creating the same music, only his lyrics were not spiritual in nature or still contained the raunchy lyrics...would you still be as negative towards him and his music of today?

As one grows older, one realizes that GOD is real, that rules are necessary,
and that a free for all, anything goes society is not progress, but insanity.
THe notion that we have to get past having a society w/rules , norms, and standards of unacceptable/versus acceptable behavior is a notion that most young "wanna be free thinkers" embrace , only to realize the errors of thier ways after they have lived a little.

Erotic City and Sexual Suicide are funky, believe me.
But 'inspiring and upflifting?".....

If you have to be inspired to have sex..you got deeper issues.

Nowadays P wants to inspire us to understand that God loves us and sent his
only Son to die for our sins. U may not believe that, but P does and if P is
right, he has gained everything. If he is wrong he has lost nothing.

Rzeplica said:

musically, i said. TRC was a vast improvement, musically, on crap like Emancipation, Rave, High, etc.

thepope2the9s said:

Pass me the sick bucket

NouveauDance said:

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Thank you, it's just my colour too

NouveauDance said:

Black satin sheets...

Ooooooh....I want them....

I can't say it any better than Skywalker and Pope have already said it.

And I do love his look during that era.

Like a true Christian, you eliminate the existence of other religions and Gods. Regardless, it's all really spooky if you ask me.

Listen man, the Jehovah Witnesses are known for their super star conservativism - Prince has always spoken about God and how to live your life and all that but there was something about it all that stressed this: respect for everyone and their perspectives. That ain't the case anymore!!

Prince has publicly chastized Wendy and Lisa for being lesbians!! This is coming from a guy who wears high heels and make up!! No matter how you cut it - that's not cool but under Jehovah's rule, homos are bad!!

This has affected his music as well - it's tame now.

And if you prefer 'Life O' The Party' over Sexual Suicide, well then I feel really sorry for you!! I know it's all a matter of perspective but come on!! Even Prince knows how superiour Sexual Suicide is!!

In principle, Signora Daemonica, I agree with you -- yet, what true genius was there in his silently bearing the pains those last few years had so criminally bestowed upon him? I believe the man to be at his best a combination of the idealistic, honest, generous artist and the young visionary who wanted only "to write." That is what he represents -- his work, not a particular time frame to which some would seek to limit him. To suggest such a period of "coolness" it would have been more apropos to name his famed Purple Rain era, during which his work reached apocalyptic levels of expression and intensity, yet, as I have said, that is not the artist anymore. Ask him yourself: he has outgrown himself, while his critics have shrunken in trying to catch him 20 years back. They have still not caught up to his work of even the early 80s. But we have, or not? Let us then view him as the vast panorama of pure ability and unpredictable evolution that he has become!

Not really. Prince showed off his techical skills for TRC, but that alone doesn't make a good album, especially when you litter it with ridiculous religuous dogma. Thats why you see so many comments from people explaining that they enjoyed TRC as far as the music goes, but they couldn't accept/agree with the lyrics.

Prince's distribution was also a nightmare. The first couple years of NPGMC were a mess of missinformation and delays. He did a better job distributing Exodus than he did ONA:Live. It was like a step backwards.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

That was supposed to be my line.