gatorgirl said:

A REAL artist will continue to make their art because they ENJOY it, not because they don't have satisfactory fame or money.

AMEN!

wow that was a great article. Prince really should read it and all of our posts.

All of you who think Prince is all about the money have got it twisted. Prince saying things like being "#1 at the bank" and "Mariah not getting a great deal after all" is directed to artists who are getting screwed by their record companies and to the people who don't understand how this dirty music business works. He is simply making a point that not only is he making more money now that he is independent, but he also is making that money by being a free artist. He just wants people to wake up, and by mentioning money, people always listen.

Excellent article!

excert: "Thus, it is this lack of "work" which causes their rhetoric to fall on death[deaf] ears. It seems that Jackson does not want to be free; he just wants to be a well paid slave. And Prince is willing to escape from the plantation,
but he is no Harriet Tubman. In both cases, African Americans are missing a golden opportunity to use one of their greatest gifts for something more than pleasure. "
---

--Recently, I think Prince has really attempted to rally people around this cause(not his cause) esp by opening up Paisley to Celebration speakers Smiley, Dyson, West, and his former attorney McMillan.
He now has his artistic freedom to a certain degree--though any new albums will not likely be heard by the masses as they once were--but is still pushing for discussion on artists' rights in the music business.

The author is correct: Prince's music has always been about individualism, so it seems odd for an artist who has been accepted by American society as their own person--like Oprah or Bill Cosby for instance, who are more than a 'black artist'--to suddenly stand up against racial injustice.

I think this is well written and analysed. he makes some good points. But I think he fails to mention the interest of Prince's descendants in the issue of ownership. Also he makes the dispute with WB look a little too much as if Prince really didn't care about the money aspect, but was mainly about artistical control. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. In short, he can't afford not to care, because else WB will keep making the most money and having the most control of his work for the next generation and the one after to come.


-
[This message was edited Thu Jul 25 7:30:12 PDT 2002 by Abrazo]

wellbeyond said:

If i can add to this, i can see both sides: Prince was pissed off watching other people--esp non artists--making a shitload of $$ off his product, especially the scum in the music industry--and wanted out. He may make less or the same amount of $$, but he won't be 'feeding the sharks', so to speak.

On the other hand, Prince may have unattached himself from the music biz because Warner in particular started telling him when and what he could release in a specified amount of time(five albums in ten years?!--that's not P).

IMO, it was a little of both plus one more ingredient:

WB gave him limited access to WB Pictures, their movie division...
Prince became an international superstar with 'Purple Rain' the movie(which in many ways, circumvented radio to get his music to the masses, thus he never relied on radio to be a star--which is normally the case).
After UTCM, and Graffiti Bridge--i don't think WB planned on ever helping Prince produce another movie, and without their Hollywood distribution power, they may as well be just another record company
...AND with album sales down and knowing he can make the same amount of $$ he used to without selling as many albums--why stick around and just do it himself?
Just my theory.

[edit: my grammar bites today] peace
[This message was edited Thu Jul 25 7:34:38 PDT 2002 by mrchristian]

Ouch...!!! But it's the truth. That was a good read!!!

Whoah girl couldn't you have warned us this Essay on Prince and Michael Jackson was so very long?

Details on the author's book on "The Lyrics of Prince" to follow...

On January 15, 2001, Psychedelic Literature re-released The Lyrics of
Prince: A Literary Look at a Creative, Musical Poet, Philosopher, and
Storyteller by C. Liegh McInnis. Initially released in 1997, The Lyrics of
Prince has been expanded from 112 pages to 580 pages. This is a work of
literary criticism, studying the lyricism, poetics and subject matter of
Prince. Using literary theory, McInnis places Prince in the canon of great
African American poets and artists as a barometer of his times. For the 2001
re-release, McInnis has added four additional chapters, including a chapter
entitled "Poets' Praises for Prince," which represents a collection of
interviews of poets who view Prince as one of the great lyricists of our
time. These interviews include Tony Medina, Saul Williams, Umar Bin Hassan
of The Last Poets, Dr. Chezia Thompson-Cager, Askahri, coordinator of
deGriotspace, and others. Dr. Marie O'Banner Jackson states, "I have seen
second editions before, but I can't recall any of this magnitude. This new
edition shows both McInnis' growth as a writer as well as the magnitude and
importance of Prince's career to the legacy of African American art. Through
this work you get an understanding that Prince is a part of the legacy of
African Americans struggling with identity and place, as well as an
understanding of his lyrical prowess." To this McInnis adds, "As a writer
who is, hopefully, growing, I have been a bit worried about being known
merely as the guy who wrote the Prince book. But in my dedication to grow
and evolve, I do believe that the responsibility of the writer is to tell
the truth. The truth is that Prince made me want to be a poet. When I first
heard the album Dirty Mind, that was it for me. I started writing poems...So
I must be honest when I talk about the influence of Ahmos Zu-Bolton, Dr.
Jerry Ward, Dr. Reginald Martin, Kalamu ya Salaam, Charlie Braxton, Tony
Medina, David Brian Williams, Jolivette Anderson and Hollis Watkins. The
truth is that these people all shape how I now approach writing, my
commitment to writing and about what I write. But Prince made me want to
write, want to say something about who I am and where I am going...His work
gave me the courage to be myself and suffer the consequences of my actions
and my artistic vision." The Lyrics of Prince can be ordered from any
bookstore or directly from Psychedelic Literature, P.O. Box 3085, Jackson,
MS 39207, Jackson, MS 39207. (601) 352-3192, 1725topp@bellsouth.net. The
cost is $36.35, which includes shipping and handling, $10.00 S/H outside the
U.S. Reviews of the book are posted on the Barnes and Noble Website at
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/: Author Search: McInnis, C. Liegh.

The Lyrics of
PRINCE ROGERS NELSON
A Literary Look at a Creative,
Musical Poet, Philosopher, and Storyteller

Table of Contents

I. Minneapolis as the Microcosm of America 1
II. Theory: A Method to the Madness? 43
III. Father's Son 130
IV. The First Two Albums: Laying A Foundation 137
V. The Beginning of Controversy with the Breaking of New Grounds 145
VI. The Minneapolis Genius and His Message 178
VII. His Purple Reign 193
VIII. Our Trip Around the World in a Day 209
IX. The Hopeless Romantic 228
X. Genius at Work: Poet of the Times 235
XI. The Turmoil and Rebirth 245
XII. The Commercial Storyteller: The Pop Philosopher 277
XIII. It's All About...Love! 287
XIV. One Gem Of a Talent 302
XV. (Symbol) 309
XVI. The Gold Experience 322
XVII. Wit, Metaphors, and Imagery 342
XVIII. The Personas 354
XIX. Sex 380
XX. Emancipation 435
XXI. Poets' Praises for Prince 550
XXII. Conclusion 571
XXIII. Bibliography 581

It seems to me thart peop[le always miss the point that Prince AGREED to give WB control of his recordings when he AGREED to use their money to make them. I will give you that it is a fucked up system, but it's a system that they AGREED to be a part of with their John Hancocks at the bottom of the page. I'm glad the Prince got out of his "deal," but again, he was the one that put himself into it more than once. I think he's taking the stand now that things should change for the future, knowing that they can't change for the past. I think he knows that unless Mo Ostin comes back from the dead, he'll never get his WB masters.

Abrazo said:

it's always about the Dollar.Prince wants His Loot just as much as MJ.folks don't give MJ enough Credit for Getting His Masters back.I Hope Prince can find a way, but also just admit He made a Mistake by Signing that deal back in 92.MJ is gonna have His Masters for His Family&Hopefully Prince will be able to do likewise? one thing that folks fail to see is this: no Matter how you go about your work be it dropping a Albumm Yearly or waiting a few Years at the end of the day both Partys want the Rights of there Work&Want a Full share of it.But MJ's situation is Unique in that Not only does He Get His Masters but He also has a 50% Investment in a Major Corperations Catelog.HOT DAMN!

RIGHT ON!!!

Will this make into the mainstream media???

Hell no !

People, what is a hit record is not determined by what you listen to but by what is played on MTV,BET,& the radio.

Rolling Stone, VIBE and other music rags are controlled by large corporations that control music companies.

Recent debates on the best/worst Prince albums should tell you that even his "worst" albums could have made #1 with the proper promotion.

For all those people who constantly say Prince signed the contract, how exactly do you know what exactly was printed in that contract? It's quite common for some people to sign contracts that don't exactly tell the whole story.

Many times the content of recording contracts (like that of contracts in general) might seem self explanatory on the surface, but it's not always the case. Maybe Prince's biggest mistake was that he didn't have a lawyer go over it with a fine tooth comb and explain whatever it was that he MAYBE didn't realize from the outset.

Is anyone here privy to the content of what he signed - and what exactly it meant? I don't consider WB the devil, because Prince got more control from the beginning of his career for years than any kid that age could possibly want. But at the same time, record companies are not exactly some isolated corporations that are always on the up-and-up with their contracts. There are so many potential details that we may not even know about on that contract. Have you ever seen an advertisement that you thought was self explanatory, but later found out it wasn't as simple as explained AFTER you bought something? Companies aren't always taken to task for false advertisement either. It could be a minute detail, but a DETAIL nevertheless.

Like I said, it could be that Prince's biggest mistake was not having a lawyer go over the contract with him, Prince being the lone wolf-type about certain things. During that time, if I'm not mistaken, he didn't have a management team anymore, that would have helped too, along with a lawyer. Yes, I believe it IS ultimately Prince's fault that he may not have been as meticulous with the contract as he should have been, but sometimes things are not always the black and white issues that we think they are. There might be gray areas we know nothing about. Just because we know the outcome doesn't mean we know everything about the situation.

Couldn't this be analogous to the thread a couple of weeks ago with complaints about the rhetoric of the NPGMC's "exclusivity" arrangement that some were under the impression of?

fran said:

Ditto!

no offense, but "fall on DEATH ears"? THREE TIMES? how does that even happen?

nLA said:

You made some more great points that I can see, but my opinion still hasn't changed. lol.



Many painters don't become famous until after they are dead or close to it. They did not make money off of their work until they were looong gone. And sure, some paintings are ugly! But someone sees it as art and pays top dollar for it. Some people think they are an artist when they are not, but many are artists without recoginition. A "true artist" is in the eyes of the beholders. It is amazing how many unknown artists are really out there. Are they as good as Prince? No way. Are all of them good enough to become famous and make good money? No. My point is that an true artist, good or bad, should do their work for THEMSELVES. Not for monetary rewards. And no one is a fool for doing artwork. If they enjoy drawing stick figures, I say GO FOR IT! Just don't try to sell it to me (or give it to me unless I really like you).



I agree to this somewhat. I think Prince definitely does need some new people in charge of promoting and marketing because right now it is not working out for him as it could. I think his money could be spent more wisely and effectively on promoting and marketing. Problem is, Prince wants promoting and marketing his way since he is in control of it now. I could offer suggestions to him.

Maybe Prince doesn't want to be promoted and marketed like WB used to do for him, but I know I would like for his music to be more "out there" than it currently is, and he just might, too. He might sign with a company that will do nothing but promotion and marketing in the future where he can have a lot of say, but until then, at least we can keep track of what all is going on. Its just a pity that so many others that are not hip to the scene are missing out.



That can be true, too, but Prince was able to do most of his work independently even when WB tried to offer him assistance. When Prince knows he needs some help from others, he knows who to get from and doesn't need a company to step in. To get where he is today, he had to have WB for promoting and marketing. When an artist starts out in this current time and day, they have to have a company like WB backing them for the promotion and marketing, at least for part of their career, especially now that most "musicians" suck and the companies know that no one would listen to that crap unless it is promoted like stink on a skunk. Prince did make it appear money could have been the issue when he resigned with WB in the early 1990s. He was trying to decide what to do about the whole issue. Money could have definitely played a part then, but what also might have upset him after the fact was WB closing Paisley Park Records. That infringed on his ART.

MJ is not an artist. He is a singer and a performer. He can't arrange and compose his songs. That may explain why he is never happy with it; he doesn't know what is wrong with it because it isn't his.

Still, I don't think Prince is ONLY about the money, but you are certainly entitled to think so, as many other people think. Many "artists" today don't do anything but sing, and most of them suck at that. Prince (and sometimes his band) did EVERYTHING in the musical aspect of things. I don't blame him for wanting the money that WB steals off of his work. I just don't think Prince is in the business he is solely for the money and fame, and that certainly goes for right now in his career. He is in it for his love and sharing of his music, and along with that came nice money and fame. He's spoiled, but loves to share his gift, too.

johnny said:

u NO im funky...like a funky chicken...whoops...i mean GATOR!

This article breaks my heart. I am deleting my account because i'm sinking in shit here. However, i'll say this: When OJ simpson was victimized for the same racial problems, he ran to the black community for protection, and we protected him with no heistations, yet he ran back to selling out. :LOL: So why is the black community reluctant to protect PRince and MJ? I would state my opinion but i won't be back to defend it. Peace and much love to everyone, take care.


I love u Prince good luck and take care, keep the funk flowing!!!

It's one of the most intelligent things that I've read here.

DAMN, this article is TOO DEEP.
I can't stop shaking my head.


Most of the content of this article is true, whether anyone wants to admit that or not. Some of the statements & assertions are strong- even biting- but appropriate; especially the parts about intergration & the plantation references. This article explains why I don't now nor have I ever had any real pity for Jackson. Each of us is a product of our environment- for better & for worse- & Jackson is certainly a product of his.


I'd like to make more comments on this article, but to make any real comments worthy of the truth & depth of this article would require several readings (which I will probably do anyway.)


In the meantime, I'll definitely be forwarding this article to a lot of people..


I agree with someone who already said this:
this is the best thread topic I've seen at the org.
Much better than a lot of the TRIVIAL threads that find their way onto the org.


Very well done, Maria.
Here's hoping that you- or other orgers-
will come across more interesting, well thought out articles & topics like this.

Good article.

I'm going to print that on a T-Shirt (well, not all of this, I'm not that fat!) wear it all the time.

Excellent article!
I always believed a big difference between Prince and MJ was the artistry vs. commercialism.
The mainstream press lumped them together because they are both black, the same age and talented.
But to me, Prince has always been more talented than MJ because of his depth and risk taking.
MJ is just concerned with money and hits. Prince is looking at the bigger picture.
Prince might not always take the right roads or the easiest paths, but he is definitely going in the right direction.

This is exactly what the prologue to Family Name was talking about.
One cannot serve two masters.Either you are the master or you are the slave.
Many people both Black & White have the slave mentality,or you want somebody to tell you what to do.

Rolling Stone & Vibe ,what a sad joke both of those magazines have become.Some old time Orgers may remember my past posts on RS but for you new orgers...

Rolling Stone rated the GRAFFITI BRIDGE album 4.5 stars out of 5 .Not SOTT,not LOVESEXY,GRAFFITI BRIDGE !?!

Needless to say no album by Prince released since then has been close to 4 stars.

This made me wake up to the words of so called critics.

prince shouldn't hvae gotten into the music BUISNESS, if he doesn't know how to handle business. it's great he can make music but if u can't proect urself before it's too late, don't go into the business.

lesson is: if u are getting into an already risky business, learn anything to everything about it before u can damage ur career.

btw,mj doesn't diss berry gordy becuase (it was stated in his autobiography) that berry showed him how to make hits and gave him confidence.

subyduby said:

Child, child, child...

Supernova said:

?

This is from the same ignorant moron who claim here that "Prince can't sing", seems unable to cite 3 of his songs & whose favourite albums are:DANGEROUS BAD HISTORY:
subyduby said:[quote]prince shouldn't hvae gotten into the music BUISNESS, if he doesn't know how to handle business. it's great he blah blah [quote]