Ice9sFine said:

Maybe in its pure sense, but playing an instrument is visual (as well as physical), and that puts limitations on players.

NDRU said:

some players are so gifted that they aren't limited in that way.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I doubt it, though I grant you that visual limitations are much less than physical limitations--hence Stevie's brillaince.

But there are some things that you can play on the piano that you can't play on guitar, and things you can play on guitar that you can't playon a horn or with your voice, so even if you're a genius, your music is not purely aural, it's limited by the instrument that you're using.

And I bet Stevie voices chords in a way that allows for less extreme hand movement from one to the other.

NDRU said:

Point taken. But all physical limitations aside, visual images have nothing to do with making music. In fact, Stevie can probably read a piano keyboard much like a blind person can read braille. His heightened sense of touch makes his physical limitation seem almost nonexistent. Granted, he may have more difficulty reaching for a random note out of nowhere without feeling the keyboard first, but hey, if Art Tatum could do it...

Ice9sFine said:

I do agree that Stevie doesn't seem very limited by his blindness when it comes to music. In fact, it may enable him to focus more on what he hears, getting closer to the essence of music which, like you say, has nothing to do with what you see.

Ice9sFine said:

Interesting idea, but do you really think that is so?

Music is entirely aural. I wonder.

When you listen to a song -- take one I just had on, "1+1+1=3" -- do you not actually "see" the notes and the instruments? This may sound strange, but I do and I'm sure many others do. Many times I visualize the hand playing that bass line. I see the hands hitting keyboards. I can't explain it exactly, but many times I do picture the music in my head as it plays.

Lying in bed, lights out, playing "1+1+1=3" on your CD player, well what do you see in your mind? Do you not "see" the light rap on the snare that creeps into the start of the song? Don't you "see" the entrance of that bass line? That lush keyboard chord? Do you not see Prince singing?

For me I do "see" the actual music in my head for many, many songs. I see a strumming acoustic guitar when those chords are strummed in "7." I don't think I am alone in feeling that apart from being strictly aural, music also possesses a visual component.

Cloreen said:

Oh, definitely! I know exactly what you're talking about, and I'm the same way. I can listen to an album, then just go and start playing it because I've already envisioned performing all of the songs from start to finish.

But this is only an association. Both you and I have built up these aural/visual associations throughout our years of playing. For someone who did not grow up with this association, it wouldn't be this way at all.

Anyone who started playing music after they had gone blind would not have a lot of visual "cues" to go off of. That's why I think that music, in its purest sense, as NDRU said earlier, is entirely aural.

There is also some nonvisual "seeing" going on in my head in addition to seeing actual visual cues. One good example is that Bb chord in "Sometimes it Snows in April." When that chord plays, it's like a color change in my head. Sometimes I feel things, too. In "Power Fantastic," I always get the chills, like its getting cold in my room. At the end of "God," that closing progression makes me feel like I'm simultaneously...well, blooming, like a flower, and rising up, you know, levitating.

MANY other examples of this in all kinds of songs. I'm not sure if these are personal associations I've developed, but it also occurs in other aspects of my life. One of the weirdest ones is this certain perfume that I smell that reminds me of Disney World. I don't know why. Could be that my mom wore it when we went there. Not too sure. There are some others, weirder and more difficult to explain!

I think I know what you mean with that one chord in "sometimes it snows in april' that didn't bother me though. What DID bug me is in the song "4 the tears in your eyes", something screwy with the strings in the instrumentals...I wish I could tell where I mean...

Gomp said:

That chord MAKES the song...otherwise its just a nice but predictable production line tear-jerker. Its little things like that chord that separate Prince from the rest. I can't see why anyone would even listen to Prince if you don't like those quirky dissonant moments.....I suggest you give up on Prince and get into Phil Collins or the Corrs...their chord progressions have all been approved by Disney.

SDNafka said:

Just because I don't like one use of a chord, I should give up my love for Prince's music entirely and get into The Corrs..? And we're back in kindergarten, folks...

By the way, Phil Collins is an excellent songwriter, and songs like 'In The Air Tonight' or 'Against All Odds' are as good as anything Prince ever made.

I think to claim that the use of an unusual chords progression is the work of a genius, is rather illogical. I'm a songwriter myself, and I realised that when I started songwriting, I used really weird chords all the times; not the chords themselves, but more the use of them within the key. When I wrote something in C, The chord progression could have went from C to Am to Dm to... Eb..!! Because of my limited knowledge, I just used the Eb, whereas now I know it's a lot more logical to go to the G. I know, I know, pretty standard, but I'm just trying to point out that the use of strange chords is no reflection of a genius mind.
Oh, and I'm not saying chord progression should only involve chords from the same key. Ofcourse not. But I still think the Bb in 'Sometimes It Snows In April' sounds very forced, and it really doesn't make it a stronger song.

SDNafka said:

"Oh no, we can't have that in here, Mr Collins. That'll hurt Mickey's ears."





Just got out of bed edit
[Edited 4/14/06 1:38am]
[Edited 4/14/06 1:39am]

Gomp said:

Firstly, my dear but misguided friend, I didn't claim that use of an unusual chord progression is the work of genius. In fact, I'm struggling to see where I used the word "genius" at all. Naughty naughty! If you don't agree with what I have to say then say so, don't set up a straw-man version of my position just to make it easier for yourself...I mean, this isn't kindergarten ya know!

Also, while were're on the subject of misrepresention, I never said that Phil Collins was a bad songwriter, merely that he is an example of someone who uses fairly standard chord progressions. Having said that, I certainly wouldn't say that anything Phil has written is as good as ANYTHING Prince has ever made....I have no doubt that posterity will come down on my side on that question.

Anyway, you don't like the Bb...I love it and wait for it whenever I hear the song. ain't life grand? I was only half-serious about you giving up on Prince and listening to the Corrs. Good Lord, you Prince fans are so mind-fuckingly earnest.

Cheers