Here we are in 2006 and on his latest, 3121, Prince is still rapping in some songs. You know what? That's just fine with me. Prince fans give him more shit for incorporating hip hop into his mix. I don't thinks it's deserved.

I have two objections to this:

1. Prince is always stretching and trying on new clothes musically. In 1985, it was 60’s psychedelic music, sometimes its jazz, sometime its blatant James Brown rip off’s, sometimes its techno, in 1980 he was a new wave punk.Prince always is Prince soundwise and style-wise anyways. He takes a genre and puts his own spin on it. It’s the same with rap music. What? He can try every genre he likes but, "God forbid he touches rap-it beneath him". Whatever.


2. Often when Prince is accused of borrowing from hip hop he is actually borrowing from 70’s funk. The confusion is understandable, because hip hop is like a younger cousin of funk. The glammed out microphone gun, the chain mask, the pimp suits, and the cane---all can be traced to 70’s funk style. Prince never pretended to be a gangster. He was/is always Prince. He still had the heels, the make up, the big hair. The closest he came is when he called it “gangster glam.” A cross between Michael Corleone and Barbarella? Sounds like just another Prince tangent. It was. I mean, what rappers had camels in their videos and played acoustic guitar to belly dancers? None. It was Prince being Prince. Again, Prince can dress just like Hendrix, but don’t wear a parka with a symbol because that it too derivative. That’s too hip hop. No, that’s Prince doing as usual. He takes elements from other sounds and styles and makes it his own unique purple thing.

PS.
Try this out- grab a hip hop album from 1992 and play it next to

Chances are the rap album sounds like a rap album from 1992. And Prince sounds like Prince. Yes, Prince of 1992. Just like 1999 sounds like Prince of 1982-not just a new wave/Rick James rip off.

skywalker said:

I totally agree. Before I came to prince.org and the newsgroups I never even thought about Prince's use of rap as being a big deal. It was just another one of the varied elements that he adopts for his own uses.

I respect rapping.

But it has to be done right.

Rapping is simply talking to a beat.

Anyone that has knowledge of Prince understands talking isn't his strong point.

Thus: Prince weakness for talking shows in his rap.

The difference is one of competence and genuiness.

Prince doing Jimi, jazz, 60s Psychedelia, 70s funk and soul, Joni Mitchell style singer songwriter stuff makes sense because he grew up with it. Its part of him.

Prince doing gangsta rap, reggea-rap, house, new jack or what ever else he thinks he does has nothing to do with his experience. Plus he usually sucks a most of it.

It shows the chameoleon like behavior of an insecure person who tries to be everything to everybody and not the grand music synthesiser and integrator we all thought he was.

I like when Prince raps.

Moonbeam said:

Without fear of toung lashings, can you expand this though? Why? What? HOW?

skywalker said:

The main problem with Prince incorporating rap is the conflict of personality.

Prince music is sexually ambiguous, politically naive, utopian, and racially subdued. Hip hop is racially conscious, politically aggressive, worldly, and sexually divided.

Rap culture is heavy on competition, rivalries, the behind the scenes politics and everyday living. Rap references movies, sports, television, actual streets and places, poverty, prison, violence, the thug life.

Prince sings about universal brotherhood and armageddon and sex--concepts that easily lend themselves to fantasy and make believe. Which is anathema to hip hop and the "keepin' it real" mentality.

I'm afraid the only way Prince will gain acceptace in the hip hop world is if he serves time for terrorizing Sinead O'Connor and then, upon his release, gets gunned down by Morris Day in Las Vegas.

I have always loved Prince's rap. Hmm.. One sticks out in my mind right now, for some reason...

"Straight nines went off, but they missed..." from GCS 2000. Haha!

MickG said:

I've never had issues with Prince rapping on his records. You can trace it back a LONG way in his music ("Irresistible Bitch" is kinda rap, as is "All the Critics Love U in New York"). What gets me is that most fans rate The Gold Experience very highly, and many of those songs contain rap. I adore that album and I like Prince's style.

That said, I know nothing about real rapping "technique". I just know what I like.

I quite enjoy his rapping,especially in 18&OVer,he reminds me of
Snoop.

padawan said:

I nominate this for org post of the year.

jtfolden said:

Me too. I actually liked the idea of Prince incorporating hip hop into his music just to see what he would do with it. It might not have worked all the time but at least he tried and I think with Incense... he actually gets it right.

emesem said:

You know, it's funny... because if you're going to compare Prince to Joni Mitchell then I'd say he does rap a whole lot better. Prince rarely comes up with a lyric as clever and wonderful as Joni at her peak.

He has been trying to rap like Rakim for 2 decades now.

I never really had a problem with Prince rapping on his own CDs. Some of it is awesome, like Gett Off, My Name Is Prince, and Days Of Wild.

Although, I do cringe when I hear Push and NPS, where he tries to incorporate ALL the song titles in there. Silly.

I had a problem with guest rappers, especially the Tony M. era. Horrible.

What I find most disturbing of all is the fact that your thread title sort of rhymes with: "1-9-9-9- People keep steppin'."

workingupahiyellasweat said:

I can kinda see a resemblence between Rakim's Follow The Leader and Prince's Y Should I Do That, When I Can Do This? . . . subject matter and delivery fo' sho'.

jtfolden said:

now thats just plain ignorant.You should borrow someone else's Prince albums from say 1982-1987 or so.

Prince raps are very much hit or miss. I love some of his raps to death and hate others. Mostly I admire the fact that he'll try anything. I've heard some actual rappers who sound worse.



I say let the man have at it.

padawan said:

I see what you are saying, but hear this- Hip Hop / rap culture is fronting when it talks about "keeping it real". Most rap imagery is no more real than the bling, money, girls, and gigolo/pimp in fancy cars persona that Morris Day and Prince have been utilizing since the early 80's. Also, if you listen to Prince's songs, many of them are a lot more genuine. Prince makes you feel that he believes what his songs are about. For some, songs like "Anna Stesia" are as real as it gets.

Also, there is quite a bit of rap music that isn't the fake thugged out stereotype that you describe. Prince has never portrayed himself this way, furthermore, his rapping often lends itself to his continuing themes and messages. These messages have been relatively consistent from day one and, I would argue, are no more fantasy than any rap ever laid down.

[Edited 3/23/06 21:20pm]

skywalker said:

Great points.

thepope2the9s said:

lol, say what?? I gotta go back and listen to that one then.

There's something about Prince's rapping that elevates it above common rap you hear on the radio. It stills has a pitch to it, and it's very melodic. The Gold Experience is full of it. If you listen to "P Control," Prince's rap has almost a lyrical quality to it. My favorite instance is in "Now," when he says "fill us with de dope track, lick us, twist us, roll us in your mouth" and then he suddenly switches to a melodic line for "Light us up and take a hit." I love that part so much, for some reason. Also, the whole "forty forty five snakes alive" part in the minor key is too cool!

When done right, I like when he does it. Like on The Word, I Batch, Acknowledge Me etc.

emesem said:

LOL I'm sorry but, lyrically, Prince doesn't hold a candle to the stuff Joni was coming up with from 1975-1977 for example (not even getting into earlier stuff like Ladies Of The canyon or later works like Turbulent Indigo). Prince has only a few albums with near as much depth beginning to end as The Hissing Of Summer Lawns or Hejira. In general, Prince has a much more narrow scope and view of the world and relationships in his music.

Like Moonbeam said, Prince has been rappin' since the early 1980s. Not everyone will like all his raps, like not everyone will like all his guitar solos.

They're all different.

One small note:
"Rap" didn't fall from the sky.
Talking to Beats is an old black music standard. Just listen to old p-funk tracks from george clinton or bootsy, "Hollywood Squares" eg.

The problem is, not the rap itself, it is the sound. If prince wants to rap in "hip hop style" he really fails...

Prince is like a sponge. He just soaks up everything and utilises it as best he can. When I listen to 3121, I hear elements of almost every major musical style of the 20th Century... rap, funk, rnb, hip-hop, rock, jazz, fusion, latin, classical, world music (I hate that term), metal, psychodelica, techno, electronic etc, etc. Call it what you want, but he is able to mold it all into something that is 100% Prince.

Just because he didn't 'live through' the rap era doesn't mean he can't use it. That would be like saying to Picasso (if he were alive today) "Sorry mate, you can't use computers, they weren't around when you were young..." .

Besides, can you imagine how many rap songs would have sampled a Prince track had he allowed them to? My lord, every second rap song would have a Prince sample!!

skywalker said:

The “keeping it real” mantra is bullshit, no doubt. Plato himself spent years trying to figure out what is real and what is not.

But consider the hip hop values you listed, skywalker: bling, money, women, cars. It’s the material world that hip hop champions. One’s success in this life is measured by tangible things. Material possessions. Your bank account. Your estate. Rap artists make no bones about this. They like the cash money and the parties and the fine women. To them these are “real.”

Whereas Prince espouses a more abstract set of values: God, spirituality, individuality, love, salvation, new power SOUL. Prince goes out of his way to denounce money, which is where he diverges from hip hop.

Prince’s early rap-tinged songs (“Irresistible Bitch,” “Annie Christian,”) appropriate the idiom of rap but not hip hop attitude. It’s when Prince tried to act hard like a gangster that the wheels came off. Prince is many things but he is not a hardened street hood. Hard street hoods like money.

I know there are rap acts like the Fugees, Tribe Called Quest, Common, who advance a softer, mellower message, but don’t fool yourself into thinking they represent hip hop. Hip hop is all about the urban black experience and more often than not its delivery is fast and furious. It touches on economic injustice, racism, male-female alienation, underclass fears and joys. It’s supposed to be threatening.

So when Prince howls his name is Prince, he’s got two sides and they’re both friends, you must see how laughable this is. When he raps about pussy control hip hop nation does a collective eye roll and face palm. Personally I don’t mind his rapping, I think he’s got the chops to pull off a nice flow. He can rap just fine—it’s just not hip hop.

babynoz said:

I agree.Sometimes his rap songs are great ("Days Of Wild",for example),but other times,he fails miserably ("Acknowledge Me"....cool song,but the rap is awful).