Ifsixwuz9 said:

You seem to have misunderstood.

First of all, I wasn't saying the 3121 praising was ass kissing. I was saying you guys are kissing each others asses.

And second, I'm not criticizing people for liking this album. They have their opinions and I have mine. I just take issue with people busting my balls when I post an opposing view.

sarkozy2007 said:

Vast majority of PEOPLE dig this album? Are you fucking serious?

Madonna doesn't need to be as talented as Prince. She still has REAL hits while Prince pops in once in a while to impress people with his hits of the past. If you ask the average person what the last Prince hit they remember is, they'll give you a title from well over 10 years ago.

When Prince has a hit as big as Hung Up, get back to me.

TimeKeeper said:

That's the nature of the org. Opposing views will be challenged, critiqued or questioned at any given time. You shouldn't take it as "ball-busting", esp. when you're telling the people who don't share your view that they're kissin' each other's asses. That's what's called a pissing match.

TimeKeeper said:

To address the portion of your statement in bold, we already know she isn't as talented as Prince.

Madonna still has "REAL" hits? This is the lamest argument I've heard. He's got the #1 album, but Prince has no "REAL" hits...

Who cares what the average person remembers?...It didn't keep 3121 from debuting at #1.

Ifsixwuz9 said:

You seem to have misunderstood.

First of all, I wasn't saying the 3121 praising was ass kissing. I was saying you guys are kissing each others asses.

And second, I'm not criticizing people for liking this album.

don't like the ass kissing cuz it's a sign of weakness. Someone posts a long piece on how wrong they feel the opposers are and all of a sudden, people treat him like Christ. I dig leaders, not followers.

quote]

Did the album have much competition at the time?

Most people didn't buy this album because they heard Te Amo Corazon or Black Sweat. They bought it because they were either hard core fans, read the reviews, saw the posters, and remembered what a great tour Prince had last year. The songs themselves didn't sell this record.

TimeKeeper said:

Dude..this is some of the dumbest logic of all time.

"...Most people didn't buy this album because they heard Te Amo Corazon or Black Sweat. They bought it because they were either hard core fans, read the reviews, saw the posters, and remembered what a great tour Prince had last year. The songs themselves didn't sell this record...."

A #1 album without huge singles? It hearkens beack tot he days when people bought an album for the album not just for a feww songs. That's how it was with Stevie, James, The Stone, Zeppelin, and The Beatles. This was before Thriller and MTV. So people bought the album for the album, not for a few pop hits. Who cares?

Graycap23 said:

Wow, what a great way to respond.

Anything else you'd like to add?

skywalker said:

That goes back to my point about Prince still riding on his name. I would love it if he could sell an album based on having killer songs on the shit.

TimeKeeper said:

Yes. You can probably apply your comments to any artist. At the end of the day, what does it matter why they purchased the cd? As long as they purchased it. I hear what you are saying about the music being "good", but there are several people who really dig the cd. I'm one of them.

"...Prince is definitely more talented, but Madonna has hit songs. I believe TMBGITW was his last hit single. That's 13 years ago. Meanwhile, Madonna has had quite a few hits since then.

I'm really not a big Madonna fan, but I'm fully aware that she's more popular. I have great admiration for Prince's genious, but at the end of the day, I'd rather listen to a good song instead of a lame one, no matter who wrote it.[/.."

And there it is. You think a song is only good if it is a "Hit". Something like "Days of Wild" was not a "hit" per se, but it blows many Madonna songs out of the sky.

TimeKeeper said:

A. It has killer songs on it.

In the minds of the hard core fans perhapse. But if you play the album to the average listener, chances are they won't be blown away by any track on there.

B. Maybe Prince has reached a stage of his career that people will buy an album just because it's a "prince album". Who cares why people buy it? It's all marketing anyway. A song on the radio/ charts is of no more quality than songs not on the radio/charts. Just ask Jimi Hendrix.....

Okay, forget charts. How bout just having songs that carry on through the ages? Jimi Hendrix never had an official "hit" but we all know many of his songs because they were awesome.

Prince was up there too. Everyone knows 1999, Purple Rain, Raspberry Beret, Kiss, Sign O the Times, Alphabet St, Gett Off, Sexy M.F., etc. But who really knows any of his songs since then? You can blame the marketing and such, but even though we like a lot of songs since then, most people don't.

Graycap23 said:

Perhapse. But I don't see this album being remembered anymore than Musicology.

TimeKeeper said:

That goes back to my point about Prince still riding on his name. I would love it if he could sell an album based on having killer songs on the shit.

TimeKeeper said:

Walk up to a stranger on the street and ask them to name 5 Madonna albums. They'll name "like a virgin" and a couple more if you are lucky. That's how it is with all artists and how people "remember" albums. In general people remember only a few big ones, unless they are fans.

"...It all comes down to personal taste. There are a lot of songs out there that I dislike, but I may still think it's a good song because it appealed to the masses. I can respect that. I feel Prince can't hang with todays world of music like he used to. His albums get released and then soon disappear forever. The songs and albums are pretty much only memorable to hard core Prince fans..."

Again, same could be said about most artists. Who the hell remembers "American Life"? Madonna fans.

Ifsixwuz9 said:

You seem to have misunderstood.

First of all, I wasn't saying the 3121 praising was ass kissing. I was saying you guys are kissing each others asses.

And second, I'm not criticizing people for liking this album. They have their opinions and I have mine. I just take issue with people busting my balls when I post an opposing view.

Guess what? I have played 3121 for average listeners who aren't Prince fans and they HAVE been "blown away". You saying they won't be is VERY presumptuous and often wrong.


People said that about Musicology as well.

Awesome songs huh? Besides "the Hits" Prince has no songs that you deem "awesome"? Prince has a ton of songs that weren't "Hits" but are well known. What are you talking about?

There are many non-hit songs that I love, but they don't really appeal to the masses.

The above mentioned songs are on every Prince "hits" collection that comes along. That's part of the reason people know a lot of them. Every average joe fan who buys a Prince "hits" album has them. Especially a song like "Sexy MF", which was not a big hit. Put "dolphin" on a big selling hits collection and it'd be the same. Hell, put songs in movies and commercials and people would know them as well. Maybe a GAP commercial? Oh wait, that's Madonna.

C'mon now. These songs were huge hits way before any greatest hits collection ever emerged. If you put Dolphin on one of them, it would be just as ignored as Pope.

You are trying to argue that Prince is currently making music that is less timeless than music put out by Madonna. Check back with me in 20 years and we'll see just how timeless "Sorry" is, other than maybe being on a hits collection. Madonna's new shit is not on the radio nearly as much as her old stuff. Big whoop. That's what happens with artists who have been around. Ask The Stones. Of course, I live in Minneapolis and we view things a bit weird here.

At the end of the day, Madonna still has the hits and Prince doesn't.

TimeKeeper said:

If that's the case then I apologize and, carry on.
But why do you care if some people on here agree with others regardless of what the topic or comment is? Actually nevermind, I saw someone else asked the same thing. Again I don't see why you need to take the postion that someone is "ass kissing" because they like what someone else posted. Let's see how you feel when it happens to you.

"...People said that about Musicology as well..."

And to many, it was true. Your point is what? Musicology had some great songs on it? I agree.

"...There are many non-hit songs that I love, but they don't really appeal to the masses..."

So what? I have maintained that good songs and "hit" songs that appeal to the masses are two different things. Who cares if everybody digs Beautiful Stranger from the Austin Powers 2 soundtrack?



C'mon now. These songs were huge hits way before any greatest hits collection ever emerged. If you put Dolphin on one of them, it would be just as ignored as Pope.


I think most would agree, Pope is a shitty song compared to Dolphin so it's a bad example. Sexy MF was NOT a "hit". Look up it's chart success. Yet, you still used it as an example of a song "known by the masses". This is is contrary to your whole idea that a song has to be a "hit" to be great. Again, how many songs on "The Hits" were actually, as you say, "huge hits". Less than half. Who cares? they are still great songs regardless of their chart success. Same with the songs on 3121.



At the end of the day, Madonna still has the hits and Prince doesn't.

Again, you are all about loving "hit" songs. I have said all along that "hit" songs are not necessarily good songs, and good songs are not always hits. However, I would also argue that Prince has a bigger and better catalog of of great songs than Madonna. Chart success? No. Out and out funky ass jams? Yes. to me, that's what it's all about.

It's not about charts and what people deem "hits", it's about the 2 and the 4. It's about music that moves you.In this respect, Prince has Madonna licked (no pun intended).
[Edited 4/5/06 6:31am]

The argument that Prince is now successful because he is "riding on his name" is simply 100% incorrect.

Remember when Prince's name got him NOTHING but ridicule? I recall when Pulse Magazine did a review of "Emancipation" in their year-end edition that stated basically "If this record - 3 CDs of diverse and very strong material - had been released by a young 23 year old up and comer, it would have set the world of R&B on its ear. But because it’s Prince, people expect greatness and are used to it, so it doesn't get much notice."

For Prince to recapture his relevance, commercial appeal and success after such a long time in the wilderness commercially is a HUGE accomplishment. Over the span of the last 2 to 3 years, he has RECAPTURED his good name – he is not “riding” on it. The hardest thing in the world to come back from is being considered "uncool" and for a long time, for most people Prince was synonymous with a joke on Leno or Letterman. He was a joke for changing his name, for his goofy behavior, for writing slave on his face, etc. Rightly or wrongly, he was a joke. BUTt he's come back from it on the strength of 2 great albums, a mind-blowing tour, and some fantastic TV performances..... And, given his R&R hall of fame induction, a renewed appreciation for his legacy.

It's so funny, EVERY Prince album - even SOTT, 1999, Purple Rain - had its share of complainers, and every Prince album ever released will have its share of complainers. I remember when “Lovesexy” came out, it was greeted with quite a bit of astonishment and hostility, because people wanted the Black Album, and they hated the cover, and they hated the material. It was bewildering at first. When "ATWIAD" came out, there were GROANS of consternation from those who wanted another 1999 or Purple Rain. When “SOTT” came out, half of the fans were still in mourning over the end of The Revolution. When “Diamonds & Pearls” came out, people hated the hip-hop angle. The haters have always been there and will always be there, simply claiming to be waiting for Prince to release another "good" album.

"3121" in my mind is easily his best album since "The Gold Experience", and possibly the best since "Lovesexy." It's a lithe and tight, funky collection of songs with really no weak links. And it's a #1 album and huge success. "3121" is also one of the most universally acclaimed albums of Prince's career.

I understand not liking the album, buy why try to come up with such tortuous reasons to explain away and try to marginalize the albums' success? I guess there were people that said "Purple Rain" was only a success because of the movie; and ATWIAD was a success because it was riding PR's coattails; “Batman” was only a success because of the movie; what other reasons do people give? The haters always want to explain away a triumph. But the reality is this: anybody with any rudimentary knowledge of the realties of the album charts will tell you that MOST WEEKS 184k would be enough to challenge for a #1 spot. What does “weak competition” mean? There was no Eminem or 50 Cent CD out this week, or something else guaranteed to move 600k+ units? That means “weak competition”? I have a newsflash for you folks - - - there are only a handful of those type of releases a year. If you want to whine about “3121” having “weak competition” then you must have a pretty dim view of the music industry, because 184k would do the job more often than not. I guess a lot of #1 albums get there because of “weak competition.”

When an artist like Prince hits #1 with little airplay and promotion, it's a major accomplishment, and it's nice to see most Prince fans celebrating this success rather than come up with reasons to explain it away to make their own dire and negative predictions look less ridiculous and wrong – which, of course, they were.