Get on the Boat, I could get up and dance around to that one! I like the little groove at the end too!

Minimalism is not really experimentation. Minimalism for Prince was actually the norm most of the time. Experimentation is stepping outside of your box, not staying in it. And i was being sarcastic with the "greatest in the world" line.

I wonder sometimes if I listen to the same music during the same period as some of you, because when was he so experimental? During the 80's, Prince got so much attention for his outlandish persona and his ability to do so-called "white" music, not for any true experimentality.
[Edited 3/6/06 5:13am]

Klyph said:

When did Prince in the 80s "stay in his box" exactly? Each album release was drastically different from the last one. And believe me, "minimalism" is definitely categorized as an experimental aspect. It's even a genre definition inside the experimental music circles.




Sorry, didn't see it.



He was being outright experimental even on the goddamn "Purple Rain" album. "Darling Nikki" and "The Beautiful Ones" are just about experimental in my books as any Pan Sonic or Nurse With Wound record.

You really think Beautiful Ones is experimental? Moving, emotional, damn good, yes. Experimental? Hardly, its one of the most by the book songs if there ever was one. Darling Nikki has more of an experimental quality to it though. And as far as every album sounding different than the next, you are right. Thats not experimentation though, thats growth and influence. Just because the album before sounds nothing like the current one doesnt mean the current is "experimental", just different. Lovesexy (well parts of it anyway) was probably his most "experimental album" (read bombastic and crowded, but in a good way).

What Im saying is if Prince's music has always had "minimalistic" tendencies, then how is being minimal experimental for him?
[Edited 3/6/06 5:28am]
[Edited 3/6/06 5:29am]

it's coming down like the wall in berlin

Klyph said:

There is wild experimentalism in the synthesizer sounds and how they are utilized. Sheesh. Also the structure is definitely abnormal compared to pop music in general. Hell, one could even argue Prince's VOCAL DELIVERY on that one is experimental.



And just above you used the argument that "experimentalism" meant stretching outside your box, and doing something you haven't done before. You can't use the same argument to seclude something out of your definitions and then use it yourself to define the very same aspect of the functionality of the phenomenon discussed.



This just shows how you are constantly contradicing yourself in your above posts. So what if he would have always been as experimental as say Karlheinz Stockhausen? Would that have meant that each time as he would have been making so-called experimental music he would have not been genuinely experimental just because some individuals would demand novelty values with each release (and as such they could only be subjectively interpreted)? If you would accept, like the rest of the world, that minimalism (in its intentional form at the very least) is an experimental musical characterization then he would be only sticking to an experimental music category. And that in itself is what experimentalism means, don't be fooled to think that being experimental has no foundation on anything. It's still mostly a well-established manner of expression, just like classic formalism or other traditional aesthetics.

You're right though, Prince isn't anywhere nearly as experimental as the genuine experimental artist world, but inside the pop music canon he is one weird creep. I accept your view, and think you are at least partially right (and it's a good thing you pointed it out here), but I just don't think your argumentation is well-founded at all. Maybe you should articulate it a bit differently.

I admit, even the definition of "experimental" within the art form of music has always been used differently from one thinker to next one. But I just personally find it quite frustrating if "experimentation" is only defined by something totally out of this world. But then again, something like "Sexual Suicide" is still totally out of this world in any case.

Let me break it down.

When Prince release 1999, there was finally indication that he could make a great album. All of his albums before had good, and occasionally great songs, but the albums as a whole werent great. But with 1999 it was different. And 1999 for all intents and purposes was a "minimalistic electro-funk record". There really isnt alot going on most tracks.

Then came Purple Rain, the grand opus, the album by which I still judge most albums on, including non-Prince ones. This album is great, and not because every song is "the best ever written", but because of the flow and continuity of it all. Honestly, to me, theres nothing really experimental about the album (except for Computer Blue), its just well written, produced, and played. P is starting to step out of HIS box a little.

Now HIS experimental (using your definition of being different from the next) factor comes out with his next release, ATWIAD. It starts of completely different, but you know why? Influence from the Melvoins and Colemans. Hell, the first song wasnt even written by him (if you really wanna be honest). The so-called "psychedelic" period was because he was starting to listen to different things. Now to some, this might be experimental, but to me, its not. This "experimentation" continues on through Parade.

But with Sign, its gone, and its back to standard rock and pop and minimalistic Prince solo efforts. Why? We all know why. When Prince does writes music without outside influence or competition, its pretty standard fare. Even though almost all of the music on Sign was written during the same period as his "experimental" stuff, it was done without the input of the "influencers" and competition.

Yeah, we have different views on "experimentation" and "stepping outside the box". Im not saying experimental means "no structure", and its just some free for all. It really is a subjective term. Whats experimental for one my be standard for another. Im not comparing Prince to any other musician, just to himself. For me, alot of his "out of the box" moments seemed to be the direct result of others, not necessarily himself.

But since I've never been a Prince junky becaue of experimentation, it doesnt matter to me. Songs like Dorothy Parker and Girlfriend are my favorites. Oh, and Sexual Suicide is DEFINITELY in my top 10!!!
[Edited 3/6/06 5:58am]

Lolita's great !
Not so sure about Love or Incense and Candles, especially that Cher voice distortion and the rap !! Lyrics are just too cheesey. On the other hand, the music's fantastic. No complaint there. At last he's getting rid of that "Emancipation" sound, that everything since has had.

Yeah, it's an interesting point that the influence for this so-called "experimentation" came from the outside, but what does that prove? Is there some kind of ontological difference between music that's been produced collectively or just by one individual, and that should somehow automatically even affect the definition of how daring it is? I don't think the so-called out-of-the-box stylizations on The Rainbow Children were influenced by anyone else either. I just fail to see the rationale behind your definitions.

And if you don't consider what most people would deem as experimentalism (as a nominal term) as genuine experimentalism I'm fine with it. I'm afterall the guy who is firmly sticking to his theory that all men are homosexuals in denial and most women are just men having been born inside a female body. But that's another issue.

So in short, I think you are right, but it's hard to come up with a way to fully convince others on these subjective terms. It has been like that for centuries and that isn't going to chance anytime soon.

Yeah, in the end it really doesnt matter if it came from outside of inside, because the music is end result. I guess my big thing is what is the difference between what i consider to be true experimentation and innovation, and simply conciously copying others for the sake of being "different". Rainbow Children to me has this "i think im a jazz musician" feel to it. I doesnt have a natural "I LOVE PLAYING JAZZ" feel to it, hence i dont look at it as experimental, simply different, more like contrived. I know I contradict myself (we all do, including u), but life is full of contradictions (like men who say gay sex is disgusting, but let their girlfriend sick a finger up their, ummm, u know).

By the way, what songs do u think are his most "experimental". I would have to say "No Light In A Large Room". To me this just doesnt sound like it should be Prince, especially the odd time signature at the end. And I know ure gonna say im contradicting myself with the next one. "Others Here With Us". Go ahead and flame me


(One more thing, we actually have alot of the same favorite songs. Private Joy is a guilty pleasure of mine. But She Spoke 2 Me and 1+1? Why, man, WHY??
[Edited 3/6/06 6:11am]
[Edited 3/6/06 6:14am]

Wow. First impression: It's not a shower. Hoping it's a grower.
Album it reminds me of most: The Slaughterhouse.

Most experimental? Hmmm... Those two are good examples altough for some inexplainable reason "In A Large Room With No Light" reminds me of a Wayne Shorter composition . My answers off the top of my head would be "Life Can B So Nice" (I can't quite decipher how its "groove" works), "Sexual Suicide" (those horns!), "Positivity" (if just for the destruction of the beat with the snare sound alone). And I'll have to add "Dorothy Parker" on that list because it just sounds like something that seriously wasn't supposed to be going on in that track ended up on it anyway. A bit more unlikely choice would also be "The Continental" which is totally unlike absolutely anything I have ever heard, and I've heard a LOT of weird shit to this day.

But you sort of said it before, perhaps in the end the most experimental aspect of Prince's career wasn't his music, it was his wardrobe.

I like She Spoke 2 Me because its sounds are crisp and smooth at the same time, plus it became a favourite of mine during an earlier period of my life when it really did still matter that "she spoke to me" and I couldn't believe it. I have no idea why 1+1+1=3 is there, though.
[Edited 3/6/06 6:21am]

Can you say: BRINGING THE HEAT!!!!!

I was cautiously optimistic about 3121 but I got blessed and I have to say, this is my new favorite Prince CD. I can't wait to go to the record store and pick up a few of these bad boys! It's pure non stop funk and not old mans funk either. There is an energy to this CD that I haven't heard since the early 90's, maybe even the late 80's and I'm not exaggerating, just my opinion. I have to hear these songs again to do a play by play of the songs and I may wait for the 21st to do so but FINALLY the hype is truly worth it for a Prince album and I couldn't be any happier than I am now . And all of this is before my birthday on the 26th so I'm REAL HAPPY!

Novabreaker said:

yeah, i'm still in total that they didn't release it as a single

U know,The Continental is kinda weird, and I like you do listen to some pretty weird stuff (listening to Butthole Surfers right now. Those guys are crazy!) Life Can Be... too, the song kinda has this "counter rotation" thing going on with the drums.

Yeah, She Spoke To Me really is a neat little song, just not in my top picks. I have a feeling Lolita and Love are gonna be in my top lists though. Love is probably the first time Prince has sounded "current" to me without sounding cheesy.
[Edited 3/6/06 6:26am]

I have to say though, and it's a valid point I think, that he
once again dragged down his own cool product by doing something
rather weird in including "The Dance".

So this time around he takes it even a step further than he did
in 99 with the outtake Rave being released as title track on an
album of supposed new material. This time round he just takes a
song that he released 3 years ago on one of his albums.

Why on earth does he do stuff like that? It's not like this song
in it's new format offers a whole different scope to 3121 as it
is (another rock song would have fitted better).

Don't get me wrong, I think the track is cool enough like this,
but the original was more melodic and this just makes it seem
like he doesn't have enough material to fill out an album even
every two years now.

Surely he's got enough songs lying around?

Questions, questions. Haters unite and tear away the flesh from
my troath with your rabid fangs, but that's just the way I feel
about this. The song feels out of place and just strange. lol.

Well, The Dance wasnt really part of an "album", more like a collection of songs only fans have heard. Maybe, The Dance is one of those songs he personally loves, or felt like it needed to be re-worked and re-shared, kinda like In The Dark.

MendesCity said:

You're kidding, aren't you?

Klyph said:

yeah, i know, but just like So Dark on Crystal Ball, they both
were just different takes on the same song, both being better,
and more melodic in their original format and just taking up a
space on the new albums, that would have been better off being
filled by a new composition (or on crystal ball, a song from a
different, previous era).

anyway, i like the new version but the ending is just lame cuz
it builds up like some Beautiful Ones clone and then it just
get's guilotined off like "Life Can B So Nice" but to a lesser
effect since it's followed by something so different and earthy
as Get On The Boat

oh god i'm turning in to Victor Meldrew

excuse me, i'll go wash my mouth with a
soap bar now and return when i can be a
bit more polite and sunny

Papaj said:

I wonder about people sometimes

IstenSzek said:

I feel u,i also think the ending is ruined by his "Beautiful Ones 2006" moment. It sounds so forced to me. At least the song isnt my least favorite. That would go to BLB.

GoldenGlove said:

Klyph said:

yeah, i hear you. all in all this album contains some absolutely
killer songs. but once again, i feel like he's put a few tunes on
it that just don't fit in at all and go nowhere.

i mean, if he's going to dip into the vault for a cool song he'd
have the choice out of 100's of cool tracks. so why this one?

and why have the Tamar track on both albums? It's a cool song but
it's not a prince album song. just like Satisfied sounds too much
like On The Couch (which isn't really bad actually, but they both
sound like he wants to pull a clever, contemporary Erykah Baduh
type of song. so why not call Erykah and do something together,
stead of remaking a song from 2 years ago).

but heck, it's a good enough album, i really like it. i just know
that i'm going to lift about 7 songs from it that will become the
classic favorites from this project and the rest will just kinda
disappear along the sideline to pop up on shuffle once in a blue
moon

This flows really well. all i need now is a perfect quality
version of Glass Cutter stead of the 80Kbps shitty one i've
got.



01. 3121
02. Lolita
03. Te Amo Corazon
04. Black Sweat
05. Glass Cutter
06. Incense & Candles
07. Love
08. Fury
09. The Word
10. S.S.T.
11. Brand New Orleans
12. Satisfied
13. Get On The Boat

i know this will offend some people, but hey, i just like to
do a bit of dabbling with albums, i do this with all discs,
by every artist, except radiohead and bjork. i just like to
see what would fit instead of something else and this really
works wonders for me. this way it becomes the best disc in
ages.

So when is this going to appear on iTunes? Three weeks later? The main reason P piggybacked BLAB onto BS is: only a much smaller or different audience would have bought both. Props! He can promote anyone he likes, if I had any musical talent, and P said, "Don't listen to what the nobodies say, I'm going to take you to the top [Tamar, Tony M, Mayte, etc., etc.]" -- if it were me, I wouldn't be complainin', just smiling all the way to the bank and humbled.

But as a consumer, I rather like the iTunes option of buying albums with a track by track option. If 99% of the album is great and he throws in a couple NEW videos, and interesting Digital booklet, and maybe the TAC version from the Brit awards with more guitar and Wendy, THEN I might buy the album. It would be great if he did a maxi single mix of TAC with more classical spanish guitar, they orchestral version just doesn't compare to the Brits awards version.

Is fury about Madonna? Didn't she say "Just leave me alone" when years ago he reportedly asked her to help him get WB to return his master rights? Is this why he performed this on Madge's expat home turf? Certainly, a big Prince hit raises the stakes among the 80's big three (Madonna, MJ, Prince) and with MJ out of if for a while now, Madonna has been in the lead, if only with mediocre product.

Personally, like many, I've been waiting for the BIG hit from P for a while now. I hope this is it. And I hope he does a lot of mix'd singles for the best songs.

I’m smiling from ear to ear this morning. I have finally had a chance to listen to the entire 3121 Disc and man is it good. No no …I’m not saying its 1999, Sign, Purple Rain, and certainly not as avant garde as Parade or eccentric like ARTHWIAD. However, what we have here is a very strong collection POP songs most of which are Rb & funk in nature. If you want Purple Rain this ain’t it. If you want Chaos & Disorder this definitely ain’t it and thank goodness. It simply blows my mind how many on this board like that album. Is there some guitar here oh yeah sure and its good of course…but this is a party record. Prince is going for the dance floor here with the usual curve balls thrown in just to remind you that its him. The vocoder is present on a couple of cuts and it works beautifully. He also sings in his deeper register a lot and it sounds so good and fresh. In fact Black Sweat is the only tune that he sings almost exclusively in the falsetto.

I will need to listen to this thing again but it is a very strong effort put our by our boy P! Most of us should be very please. The possible exception again probably will be those wanting P to rock out all the time and trust me thats not happening here. Review appears below.

3121 – Remember the song “dream factory” Well this is the voice that the song is sung in. Not quite Camille. Anyhow the song definitely has a physcadlic/funkadelic feel..of course Prince style. Very nice opening its different and not at all a POP song on this mostly POP album. This tune will make many of smile, heads bob and say, “P where you been?” Funky!!!

Lolita – Is a little cute but it Ok…synths hit you immediately and are nice. Its bouncy…so get ready to put those tops down and turn up the volume. Kinda “Get Ur Groove On”ish. Don’t like the chorus but that’s me. Has a Time flavor towards the end with his chants to the fellas and ladies…but hes done this song before and much better.

Te Amo – In the concept of the album…a beautiful record. Perfect behind Lolita and in front of… Black Sweat – you know while I think Sweat could use a good remix the song is funky. Again like some others have said that piercing keyboard can be a bit un-nerving.

Incense & Candles - !!!!! Very nice P and Tamar with the cool summer time slow/mid-tempo jam. The Vocoder is here. Turn it up fellas!!! He even has a rap here and it works!! He delivers it nicely.

Love - !!!! Great dance electro funk track with again P singing in his lower register. Very strong song. Lets dance!!!

Satisfied – Great rb/bluesy type number…with a tremendous vocal performance by Prince. On the couch, how come u don’t call, or Dark…but its own thing. Horns are nice too.

Fury – The record is really rolling at this point. This song is nice but its not the live version. Really if it is at all possible P should try to get the liver version on the album. The guitar is still hot just not as loud. The backing Tamar voice is also not there and I really think that added to the song. The synth is still there and it’s a good Pop/rock/r&b tinged tune…but again after hearing the live version this one sounds less energetic, and a bit slower. It does move as well. Still good stong though.

The Word – Nice funky mid-tempo spiritual track. Seems like I have heard bits of this before but can’t quite make it out. It kind of rolls again roll those windows down and go for a drive. Not my favorite after one listen but really this song is better than all but two or 3 songs on Musicology. Vocoder voice appears here as well. Nice guitar work towards the end

BL&B – nice Rb song fits nicely behind the Word. Like the live version from SNL better than this one but this nice…message is on point. Those that have roots in what this song is about will get it.

The Dance – It is slightly different. The music is slightly different perhaps more lush and there is now piano. More falsetto here also..until towards the end when the voice gets grittier and urgent. It closes much stronger than the original.

Get On the Boat – Nice close to album. James Brown type work-out. Horns and Maceo are clearly present. This song would not have been out of place on Musicology. Not dissimilar to Movie Star, Party Man, Pretty Man just without silly or goody voice. Theres a message here. Is that Shelia I here? Also like how it ended with African vibe. He is going to jamming about 20 minutes with this one live!

Overall a good strong cohesive, well produced pop record. I can say right now it does not have any clunkers like other middle teir POP records we have seen from him. Diamonds & Pearls, Musicology, and certainlu without a doubt light year ahead of Rave, NPS. Its much more even and far less gappy (is that a word). This could be a hit album for him without the hit singles some would like to see although I think they are here. In any case I really like it and will take a nother listen at home tonight where I can crank it up a bit. Lastly I think some of these songs are clearly from his vault and not necessarily new material at all…just an observation. Nothing ground breaking here …goodness how much more ground can this brother break. What we have here is a good strong cohesive piece of work that many of us have been hungry for.

Can’t wait until the 3/21 when I can buy 2 copies!!!!
[Edited 3/6/06 7:16am]

MikeMatronik said:

You know there's something seriously wrong with a prince fansite when the MJ pics come out.