JenniferLynne said:

?? how could it be if the original translators couldn't speak greek and hebrew?

Are you referring to first century christains , those who translated the dead sea scrolls, or those that first translated the NWT? I'm not sure where you got the information that those who translated the NWT didn't know greek or hebrew because they did. How can you translate ANYTHING if you don't know the language? so that argument is mute.

JenniferLynne said:

and yet charles taze russell,the foremost creator of the new world translation, did just that. he was later prosecuted in a court of law for his lies that he could speak and read greek and hebrew

XxAxX said:

Ding! what was that about reseach? thanx XxAxX

luv4all7 said:

Translation.

You see? The original scripture were scralled in greek and hebrue.

In the King James bible the original scripture were first traslated into french. From french into engilsh.

The more translations the less likely the text were to keep the same message.

I don't know what "New World" translation means.

MickG said:

it means that the people who follow this version of the bible believe differently from other christian sects. for example

abstaining from voting
refusing life saving blood transfusions
they believe that only 144,000 go to heaven
they beleive that neither jesus nor the holy spirit is god
and on many occasions they have predicted the end days - each time being wrong

I dont know where you received that informtion fron BUT the NWT was translated by more than one person- actually a committee, and for the Hebrew text Rudolf Kittel's Biblia Hebraica was used the dead sea scrolls were used. for the christain greek scriptures the master greek text of 1881 as prepared by westcott and hort were used along with numerous early versions. Theres MY research. Who translated your bible???

I know this is LONG but it's a good read.

* from the Institute for Religious Research

Facts About the Jehovah's Witnesses
(The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society)


Historical Background
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society boldly claims to be the only organization God is using today to teach His truth and speak for Him.1 According to the WTB&TS, all non-Jehovah's Witnesses will be destroyed at Armageddon, an event of divine judgment it threatens is just around the corner. The Watchtower Society prints over 15 million copies of its magazines every week into 120 languages, and has over 5 million active Jehovah's Witnesses ("publishers") spreading its doctrines in 230 countries. What follows are some essential facts everyone should know about the history and beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Borrowed Beliefs and Doctrines

Charles T. Russell (1852-1916) founded the Jehovah's Witnesses movement. As a teenager he rejected his Presbyterian roots, joined a more liberal Congregational Church, then left this group as well.2 He denied the deity of Christ and the biblical teachings on hell and eternal punishment. Russell had no formal Bible training, but borrowed and built upon various teachings that were popular at the time. For example, Adventism influenced his denial of hell, and a splinter Adventist group led by N.H. Barbour aroused his interest in end time prophecies. From Barbour he borrowed the belief that Christ returned invisibly to the world in 1874, and that 1914 was the year the world would be destroyed and the Millennium would begin.

Failed Prophecies

Despite these setbacks, Russell continued to attract people with his fantastic prophetic interpretations and dramatic warnings that Armageddon would strike in 1914. When 1914 came and went, he changed the date to 1915. Russell died in 1916, leaving his followers doubting and disillusioned by his predictive failures. Joseph Franklin Rutherford then took control of the organization.

Prophecy For Profit

Rutherford (1869-1942) also used the threat of Armageddon to intimidate Jehovah's Witnesses. He published The Finished Mystery, a book which predicted that in 1918 God would destroy churches and millions of their members, and claimed that by 1920 every kingdom would be swallowed up in anarchy.6 Rutherford taught that the only way to escape the impending judgment and destruction was to join the Watchtower organization.

Fear of Armageddon motivated Witnesses to work hard selling Rutherford's books and other Watchtower Society literature. When the 1918 and 1920 predictions failed, Rutherford set a new date in his book titled Millions Now Living Will Never Die (1920). It taught that the millennium would start in 1925 and that Old Testament saints like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David would come back to life. The WT Society even built a luxurious Spanish mansion called Beth-Sarim (House of Princes), supposedly to house these patriarchs. In the meantime, however, Rutherford conveniently moved into the mansion. He also drove an expensive new car throughout the Great Depression, while rank and file Witnesses sold Watchtower books and pamphlets door-to-door, and worked at Bethel headquarters for $10 - $15 a month.7 Six years after Rutherford's death in 1942, the Old Testament saints still had not arrived, so the Society quietly sold "Beth Sarim," thus closing an embarrassing chapter in their predictive history.8


Tampering With The Bible

Under the leadership of Nathan H. Knorr (1905-1977) the WT Society put away date setting for a time and switched to a different strategy. Since many of their teachings are easily refuted by key verses in the King James Bible, Knorr set out to publish a different Bible for Jehovah's Witnesses to use. The WT Society Bible, called the New World Translation (NWT), blatantly alters many verses that show the errors of Watchtower teaching. The single best example of this is John 1:1, which in the King James Version clearly declares Jesus' deity — "the Word was God." The WT Society denies the deity of Christ, so the NWT renders this phrase "the Word was a god."

Another example is found in the Old Testament book of Zechariah, chapter 12 verse 10. Jehovah God is speaking and says, "they shall look upon me whom they have pierced" understood by Christians as a predictive reference to the crucifixion. Recognizing that Jesus' fulfillment of this prophecy would mean that he is Jehovah God, the Watchtower Society has changed this verse in the NWT to read "they will certainly look to the One whom they pierced through," thus eliminating another reference to the deity of Jesus Christ. The Society made similar changes to many other verses relating to the deity of Christ (Colossians 1:16-20; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8). They have also altered verses that expose the WT Society's false teaching on subjects like the reality of eternal punishment (Matthew 25:46), and the personality of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 14:14-16; 1 Timothy 4:1; Jude 19). In this way the Watchtower Society gives Jehovah's Witnesses and potential converts the illusion that the Bible supports its erroneous doctrines.

The translation committee responsible for the NWT was kept anonymous, undoubtedly to cover up their complete lack of scholarly qualifications. None of the men who worked on this project had any formal training in the biblical languages, except for Frederick Franz. He was chairman of the committee and had studied Greek for two years at the University of Cincinnati without graduating, and was only self-taught in Hebrew.9 After Knorr's death, Franz became the Watchtower Society's new President.

Doctrinal Beliefs

When an organization like the WTB&TS claims to be the only true religion and the sole source of correct Bible teaching, we must carefully examine its beliefs. If its doctrines are true, they will be found in the Bible, and its teachings will be consistent and unchanging year after year. Jehovah's Witnesses, however, deny or twist many of the Bible's basic teachings, and their beliefs conflict with those held by orthodox Christians down through the centuries. Consider the following comparisons.

The Nature of God. The Bible teaches that there is only one true God (Isa. 43:10-11; 44:6,8). Father, Son and Holy Spirit are identified as distinct Persons within the one Triune Godhead (Matt. 3:16-17; 2 Cor. 13:14). Throughout the New Testament the Son and the Holy Spirit, as well as the Father are separately identified as God. The attributes and prerogatives of Deity are ascribed to each (Son: Mark 2:5-12; John 20:28; Heb. 1:8; Holy Spirit: Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:17-18).

By contrast, the WTB&TS denies the triune nature of God and teaches that such a belief is inspired by Satan.14 It teaches that Jehovah, the name of the one true God, corresponds only to God the Father. The Society also denies that Jesus is God (see next point). They deny the Holy Spirit is a person, and instead teach he is merely God's active force, analogous to electricity.15

Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh, and is the Creator of all things (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:16). While never less than God, at the appointed time He laid aside the glory He shared with the Father and took on a human nature (John 17:3-5; Phil. 2:6-11; Col. 2:9). Following his death, Jesus Christ rose bodily from the grave, appeared to and was recognized in his body by over 500 people. This fact was crucial to both the preaching and faith of the early church (Luke 24:39; John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:6, 14).

By contrast, the WTB&TS denies the deity of Jesus Christ and teaches that Jesus is a created being. He first existed as Michael the archangel then later was born as a perfect man. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that after Jesus was buried, God disposed of his physical body. Jesus was raised a spirit creature and "materialized" a fleshly body to make himself visible. Now in heaven he is again known as Michael the archangel.16

Salvation. The Bible teaches that the atoning work of Christ alone provides the solution for man's sin problem. Jesus Christ took the personal sins of all men — past, present and future — in his own body on the tree (1 Pet. 2:24), and as perfect God and perfect man he fully met the demands of Divine justice for us (Rom. 3:22-26). Therefore, any and all who receive him by simple faith (John 1:12; Acts 16:31), can be forgiven, declared righteous and restored to fellowship with God (2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 7:24-26).

By contrast, the WTB&TS teaches that only an elite group of Witnesses, known as "the 144,000," or the "anointed ones" are presently credited with Christ's righteousness. Only the 144,000 are born again and expect to reign with Christ in heaven. For the vast majority of remaining Jehovah's Witnesses, known as the "other sheep" or the "great crowd," the atoning sacrifice of Christ only provides a chance at eternal life on earth.17

The Bible also teaches that we are saved by grace alone apart from any self-righteous works; salvation is God's gift. There is nothing we can do to contribute to our salvation because apart from Jesus Christ we are "dead in our sins" (Eph. 2:1-9).

By contrast, the WTB&TS teaches that we must earn our own salvation; salvation will "depend on one's works." A person must first "come to Jehovah's organization for salvation"18 and then comply with everything they teach. In this way, a relationship with the Jehovah's Witnesses organization, rather than a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, is presented as the basis of salvation.

XxAxX said:

What dont I believe that you believe? I believe in god, and your statement that we abstain from blood is only true to a point-(Acts 15:29, Lev. 17:10) we do accept fractions and blood substitute. I am a Registered nurse and an FULLY aware of the risks of blood transfusions and the safer alternative. We have even been praised and vindicated by several non-witness doctors in numerous journals on our practices which, by the way, have much lower risks for complications and disease. we accept God as ruler rather than man, as such we dont vote. However, we do acknowledge our responsiblity to obey laws and as such do obey the authority of the police and laws-abiding by the scripture to be peaceable. As for "predicting" the end of time, there were witnesses back in the 70's who did that-NOT the organization itself who started that and, naturally were wrong and made a fool out of. The bible states that no man knows the date, and that Jesus is coming "like a theif in the night" The organization has never, and does not now, predict a date. Like ANY OTHER religion- we cannot help it if there are some fanatical ones who do stupid things...

jedinpg said:

It is not a good read- it is blatent lies, written with the expressed desire to discredit the organization. I am always leary of ANY publication, about any topic, that only states "bad " things instead of giving an overview. Whoever wrote that piece is just as misinformed about Witnesses as the person who posted it. I read it and it's almost laughable just how grossly inaccurate it is. those certainly arent our beliefs....

yeah...more than one person...a secrete committee.

"Dr. Bruce M. Metzger, professor of New Testament at Princeton University, calls the NWT "a frightful mistranslation," "Erroneous" and "pernicious" "reprehensible" "If the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists." (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature)

Shorty said:

You still havent told me who translated your bible. Anyways the point is, whether I study out of my NWT, my king james version or my catholic bible (yes, I still have it, and use it) it validates that all the bible truths we teach say the same thing. I can look up the same scripture in all 3 bibles and it is the same. There are no hidden messages or added words in my NWT. Who cares what Dr. Metzger says? He's probably some zealous Catholic just looking to knock the Witnesses. Speaking of which (I can broach this subject as a former Catholic) Why dont we get on the topic of priest abuse and the church cover up????

Hey, I am enjoying this nice and peaceful transaction of thoughts and ideas about the bible and what not. However I did start this thread, and I recall something about it being on the topic order of Prince and his love for the old testiment.

Prince is always dug the old testiment before he would ever have thought about selecting a religious drug of choice.

MickG said:

Your right, I apologize- I did get off topic! Anyways, if Prince is One of Jehovah's Witnesses I'm glad. I need to sign off now, I have to pick up my son. If anyone wants to further discuss I believe my email is in this site somewhere, I'll write back when I can. After homework, dinner etc..... I'm sure you parents know how it is. If not, I'll talk with everone soon.... Be good and have a good day. It's raining here but surpringly not very cold!! Bye!

MickG said:

yeah...back on topic! you say he's always had a thing for the old testiment. Got any other examples?