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Printablemetalorange said:
I've never come across a virus that targets CD-burners and never heard of a virus or spam that erases CDs! Sure you're not exaggerating? What even if they're just sitting on your shelves?! The viruses do not erase the CDs. I was referring to the transition to CDs from vinyl as opposed to the transition to computers from CDs. I meant that when the CD transition occurred, there was nothing attacking the player to make it malfunction. "Erasing the CDs" was a made up malfunction, since there were none I could think of to give an example. That transition was easy. No, the viruses in the computer aren't attacking the CD player. I don't have a CD burner in the computer...only a player. If I were to buy a CD burner for the computer, doesn't something have to be downloaded into the computer somehow for it to work? I don't know, I don't have one. If so, whenever I would run the recovery disc to get the viruses out, it would take the burner download out also and I would have to re-download it every time like I do with my internet service disc. It would be a major hassle unless I bought a new computer that already contained a burner, which I don't have the money to buy. It would take me years to save up enough for a new computer. Besides, you are here now on the internet now, exposing yourself to virii while you read, visiting the NPGMC site and downloading tracks from there is no more dangerous than visiting here and a lot safer than downloading stuff from p2p networks.
I'm not worried about viruses in the least because I can always run my recovery disc that will take everything out and restore the computer to it's original state the way it was bought. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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metalorange said:
Those sort of annoying programs are usually installed when you sign upto dodgy websites or download some dodgy software - like Kazaa - so you get what you get. It's funny that you mentioned Kazaa because I used to have that one on my computer. It was making my computer go extremely slow so I uninstalled it and the computer went back to normal. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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"People love to say that computers are the 21st Century. Well, that's true but computers have major flaws. Prince, or the entire music industry itself does not need to convert to computers until these problems are taken care of."
1st of all, it's too late. 2ndly, good luck trying to turn the entire world away from that. "New Power slide...." |
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metalorange said: I thought about that. To get a CD pressed at a plant, they probably have a minimum run of a vast amount - this costs money. Then there is the design and production of the packaging - more money. Then there has to be a team in place processing the orders and mailing out the CDS - yet more money. As opposed to one person popping up a download on the website, and the ordering mechanism is pretty much automatic. No waste, no boxes of unsold CDs, no hassle from people complaining their order never arrived... Getting a cd pressed with full colour artwork is really not that expensive - most plants have a minimum run of 500 units, with the price dropping as the run increases. For a medium run of say 5000 units the price per disc would be less than $1. This is from bog standard plants advertising online - I'm sure NPGMC could strike a better deal for themselves. Certainly an extra expense is distribution, however MusicToday seems to be handling all of that now, so the arrangement is in place, no doubt based on commission. Offering downloads is not an expense free method though. There is still the costs to host the site, which generally is based on traffic/bandwidth usage, which means that each time a song is downloaded it is adding to the hosting bill. Certainly it is cheaper than pressing discs, and that's really the point. The music is charged at almost the same as for cds - $1 a track is pretty high for a computer file with no manufacturing costs (although this is not solely an issue with NPGMC but all online music sales). Why was TCI 7 disc set cancelled? Manufacturing issues was the stated reason, but let's be honest, it was down to the bottom line - it was cheaper for NPGMC to sell the music as downloads than have the discs pressed. People prefer to actually hold the physical cd - NPGMC prefers to make the maximum profit. Let's not even start debating the merits of the sound quality of compressed wmv files over a pressed cd. All orgnotes and emails requesting trades or how to acquire bootleggage will be ignored. - The ThreadKiller - | |
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vainandy said: "Erasing the CDs" was a made up malfunction, since there were none I could think of to give an example. I'm sorry if I misunderstand you, but you're basically making up a virus that doesn't exist to strengthen your argument that the internet is flawed?? Well that's one way to win an argument I guess... If I were to buy a CD burner for the computer, doesn't something have to be downloaded into the computer somehow for it to work? I don't know, I don't have one.
Again, you're making assumptions without knowing the facts. A legitimate cd burner would usually come with software included that would enable it to work without having to download anything. But even if you were required to download an update driver or something, if you obtain it from the manufacturer's site and not some dodgy site, you are not going to get a virus. You don't automotically get a virus or adware from every single thing you download, you know. If so, whenever I would run the recovery disc to get the viruses out, it would take the burner download out also and I would have to re-download it every time like I do with my internet service disc.
Well first off, if you were installing a CD-burner, you wouldn't need to re-download things you had downloaded already, as you could use the burner to back-up the downloads to a disc. Secondly, the recovery disk is a last resort on those rare occasions when your computer is completely messed up. That's like using a mallet to crack a nut. If you had some anti-virus software installed and was cautious about what you downloaded, you should be fine and should have years of internet use without a major problem. It's funny that you mentioned Kazaa because I used to have that one on my computer. It was making my computer go extremely slow so I uninstalled it and the computer went back to normal.
Years ago, Kazaa used to be a cool program. But now to use it you are forced to download lots of spyware and adware that slows your computer up and is a bugger to get rid of. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone anymore. But there are other p2p that don't install anything unwanted on your computer. I'm paricularly fond of winmx. | |
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gsh said:[quote] metalorange said: Getting a cd pressed with full colour artwork is really not that expensive - most plants have a minimum run of 500 units, with the price dropping as the run increases. For a medium run of say 5000 units the price per disc would be less than $1. This is from bog standard plants advertising online - I'm sure NPGMC could strike a better deal for themselves. Certainly an extra expense is distribution, however MusicToday seems to be handling all of that now, so the arrangement is in place, no doubt based on commission.
Like any business, there's a fine balance between profit and loss. I'm sure Prince can release albums without losing money but less and less people buy Prince's new stuff and some albums have sold very poorly indeed over the years, so it becomes more of a risk, especially when flooding the market with several experimental albums at once. I'm sure he has to balance the pros and the cons. Certainly you don't necessarily make a profit if out of the 500 you print, 250 remain unsold in their boxes. Stores have to be willing to buy those CDs and stock them, and they become less willing to do that as Prince's star fades. Offering downloads is not an expense free method though. There is still the costs to host the site, which generally is based on traffic/bandwidth usage, which means that each time a song is downloaded it is adding to the hosting bill.
Maybe that's true, I don't know all the ins and outs. But I have a website and it has a maximum download usage, as long as I don't exceed that usage it doesn't incur any more costs, certainly each download/upload is not extra to the cost, and I don't see why the NPGMC wouldn't run on similar lines. People prefer to actually hold the physical cd - NPGMC prefers to make the maximum profit.
It depends on whether you think making the maximum profit is such an evil thing or just plain business sense. I think a lot of this is simply a case of fans knowing Prince has lots of money and therefore thinking he should be prepared to lose money hand-over-fist simply to make a few extra fans happy. | |
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vainandy said: As far as buying my stereo equipment off the internet, that was a major purchase. It wasn't a simple song here and there. It was two turntables with pitch control and two CD players with pitch control. Components like these are not available in stores in my area unless you go to a store that sells actual musical instruments and those stores are twice the price I paid off the internet. That purchase was worth the hassle. The point I was making here, was that not only is the internet a useful and convenient tool for you, in that you bought what was not necessarily available at the local stores, but that the reason why the company you bought it from COULD offer the equipment half the price was because they didn't have the overheads inherent in owning a store on your high street. Now apply that to the NPGMC and Prince. Even if he had CDs out, they might not necessarily be at your local store or you may find ordering them from some company over the internet cheaper, and you can see that one of the reasons why the NPGMC have internet only songs is because they don't incur the same overheads as getting CDs out to stores. So it makes more business sense for them. And really, there isn't any difference between a major purchase and a minor purchase over the internet. | |
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metalorange said:
I'm sorry if I misunderstand you, but you're basically making up a virus that doesn't exist to strengthen your argument that the internet is flawed?? Well that's one way to win an argument I guess... You are misunderstanding me again. I was not making up a virus that attacks a computer. There's no need to make one up because they exist. I was comparing the transition from vinyl to CD as opposed to CD to computers. I was looking for a flaw that I could mention about CD players when they replaced turntables. CD players were stereo components themselves, not computer components, there was nothing out there attacking them to make them not work properly. That's when I gave the example such as "erasing the CDs" or something. If you bought a CD player and it didn't work properly, you just had one that was broken and could be returned or exchanged. With computers it's different. You can have a fully functional computer and then be attacked by a virus. Well first off, if you were installing a CD-burner, you wouldn't need to re-download things you had downloaded already, as you could use the burner to back-up the downloads to a disc.
I understand that you can put the downloads on a CD as a backup. That's not the problem. I haven't downloaded anything in years. My files are completely empty. Something keeps attacking my computer from out of the blue every now and then. The only thing I can think of would be spyware following me around. I don't know. Secondly, the recovery disk is a last resort on those rare occasions when your computer is completely messed up. That's like using a mallet to crack a nut. If you had some anti-virus software installed and was cautious about what you downloaded, you should be fine and should have years of internet use without a major problem.
Those have been last resort occasions when I ran the recovery disc. The computer would go extremely slow. Sometimes it would lock up to the point that I would have to unplug the computer and re-plug it. The bar at the top of the screen that comes with my internet service would be gone and be replaced with another bar with icons for drugs, gambling, and porn. The "back" button at the top would no longer function. Sometimes that bar would completely disappear. Once again, I haven't downloaded anything. All I do on my computer is go into sites and look. I download nothing, ever. One time, the CD tray would not even open so I could put the recovery disc in. I kept closing the computer down and restarting it several times until I could get it open. These damn viruses are getting smarter and know what to attack. Knock on wood, I haven't had to run my recovery disc in about four months (the longest stretch ever), but there will come a time again that I will have to run it. As for the anti-virus programs, I have tried those also, unsuccessfully. Years ago, Kazaa used to be a cool program. But now to use it you are forced to download lots of spyware and adware that slows your computer up and is a bugger to get rid of. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone anymore. But there are other p2p that don't install anything unwanted on your computer. I'm paricularly fond of winmx.
The only reason I had Kazaa is because it is free and it had DJ mixes that are not available in stores. All the other sites I saw had nothing but current music (which I don't like) or old music that was extremely popular (which I already have). If anything is available in stores, I don't mind paying for it. I'm not looking for "free" music at all, I'm only looking for rare music. When I got rid of Kazaa, my computer ran smoother but it still acts up from time to time. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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metalorange said: vainandy said: As far as buying my stereo equipment off the internet, that was a major purchase. It wasn't a simple song here and there. It was two turntables with pitch control and two CD players with pitch control. Components like these are not available in stores in my area unless you go to a store that sells actual musical instruments and those stores are twice the price I paid off the internet. That purchase was worth the hassle. The point I was making here, was that not only is the internet a useful and convenient tool for you, in that you bought what was not necessarily available at the local stores, but that the reason why the company you bought it from COULD offer the equipment half the price was because they didn't have the overheads inherent in owning a store on your high street. Now apply that to the NPGMC and Prince. Even if he had CDs out, they might not necessarily be at your local store or you may find ordering them from some company over the internet cheaper, and you can see that one of the reasons why the NPGMC have internet only songs is because they don't incur the same overheads as getting CDs out to stores. So it makes more business sense for them. And really, there isn't any difference between a major purchase and a minor purchase over the internet. I understand fully that the internet is a nice option. It's also great to not have to leave your house and search stores for particular items. However, computers have major flaws and until there is some kind of way to outlaw all these sites, "cookies", spyware, spam or whatever the hell it is from tampering with people's computers, the internet does not need to be the only option that people have. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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skywalker said: C'mon people has this conversation really boiled down to "Prince is greedy because of the internet,"???
Wake up! Online music (and everything else) is the future. You cannot fault Prince or any other artist for using that to their advantage. As someone said before, all of Prince's proper releases are available in the stores worldwide. If you are looking for "hard to find" or fabclub only tracks then, yes, you have to go the extra mile to get them. That's the privilege of having a computer with a fast connection. So either do it, or don't-but don't blame Prince for what you don't have. He makes the rare stuff available for those who want to pay a little extra for it---we call that capitalism. [Edited 9/20/05 20:52pm] 
At least somebody around here gets it! Sheesh! | |
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skywalker said: C'mon people has this conversation really boiled down to "Prince is greedy because of the internet,"???
Wake up! Online music (and everything else) is the future. You cannot fault Prince or any other artist for using that to their advantage. As someone said before, all of Prince's proper releases are available in the stores worldwide. If you are looking for "hard to find" or fabclub only tracks then, yes, you have to go the extra mile to get them. That's the privilege of having a computer with a fast connection. So either do it, or don't-but don't blame Prince for what you don't have. He makes the rare stuff available for those who want to pay a little extra for it---we call that capitalism. [Edited 9/20/05 20:52pm]
At least somebody around here gets it! Sheesh! | |
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vainandy said: Knock on wood, I haven't had to run my recovery disc in about four months (the longest stretch ever), but there will come a time again that I will have to run it. As for the anti-virus programs, I have tried those also, unsuccessfully. I'm really sorry to hear how badly you have been effected - it really isn't that bad for the majority of people. honest! I had a serious virus on my pc about 5 years ago, but once I fixed that I got Norton Anti-virus and I haven't been caught out since, and I have broadband that is connected to the internet all the time. I'm not sure your recovery disc would get rid of any installed virus or trojans anyway, I think it just resets the system files to an earlier date, it doesn't actually delete any virus as such. The virus could be installed elsewhere in your computer, and be re-infecting your system files once it discovers they have been re-installed via your recovery disc. They can be clevely nasty like that. You really have to be pro-active to get rid of virii; anti-virus programs should scan your computer and locate and name the file at the very least if not delete it outright, so I don't know the ones you have tried have failed unless you have something very rare. There are also a few free programs knocking about that look for various trojan virii that some anti-virus miss. I strongly advise you to go to http://vil.nai.com/vil/stinger/ and download the free mcaffee stinger program (very small), because it does sound like you have a trojan on your computer somewhere and it might find it. I have used this and it is perfectly safe. The irony of the internet is if it messes up your machine, you have to use it to fix your machine! If ever I get a problem, I just type the symptoms into google and see if I can find out what it is and how to fix it. Another thing you could do, rather than replacing your whole computer, replace the hard-drive. You can buy these in computer shops no problem, and installing them really is quite easy - just a case of opening up your pc, unscrewing the hard-drive, pulling out the 2 cables, putting in your new one and replacing the cables. Then you just install a completely fresh new system. The more you get to know your computer, you have a better chance of fixing it when things go awry. | |
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I've never had a virus, a firewall or virus-protection programmes installed. I feel lucky like Samantha from The Sex And The City!  | |
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Paisley4u said: If I could pay without creditcard I would surely buy CI and Slaughterhouse. visa checkcard | |
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Prince can and does do whatever he wants. Any TRUE fan just has to live with that. | |
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and I'll bet Prince secretly wishes that you could walk into a store and buy his CD too...but...he can't seem to get any long term distribution in place, at least without a CONtract and giving away a couple points.
I think it's great...and necessary to offer downloads to his hard core fans. But he's lost me as one. I have a computer, I can afford downloads...BUT I DON'T HAVE THE FFIN TIME TO SIT THERE AND GO THRU ALLLLL THE MOTIONS. Yeah I have time to scribble a few lines here, but no where the time it takes to go thru the rigemroll of downloading and burning and labeling and.... So I'm with y'all wanting store bought CD's. | |
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Susann209 said: Prince can and does do whatever he wants. Any TRUE fan just has to live with that.
just what is a true fan? Space for sale... | |
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