namepeace said:

Wrong. 1 of the many great things about 'pac was his ability to represent all emotions. You seem to be forgetting that for every "definition of a thug nigga" and "hit em up" there is a "keep ya head up", "baby don't cry", "brenda's got a baby", "unconditional love" and so on.

'pac was the realest because he wasn't afraid to portray his sensitive side as well as his violent side.
[Edited 7/12/05 8:31am]

Militant said:

vainandy said:

So sad, but so true.

MetroArea said:

lol i just noticed that quote..o the nutty thangs folks will say to get their point across

Militant said:

No, my friend, in time, you will find, that it is you who are mistaken.

For every "young black male" there is a "hit'em up." For every "dear mama" there is an "i get around." For every "I Wonder If Heaven's Got a Ghetto" there's some gangsta tripe.

He was Neo AND Smith. He cancelled himself out.

Meanwhile, elite MC's like Mos, Com, Chuck D. and Kelvin Mercer have shown their sensitive side AND remained consistent. Tupac had to go gangsta to sell. Had he stayed on the 2Pacalypse Now tip, he never woulda sold. He had to go Thug Life.

Tupac was the most charismatic MC to ever hold a mic. That don't mean he
was the best. He wasn't even close to being the black messiah, as you insist. He was an actor and a troubled soul. He wasn't the G.O.A.T. He wasn't a saint.

Militant said:

2 Pac did not sample Prince on to Live And Die In L.A , he sampled a song from Funkadelic's Guitarist Eddie Hazel called Frantic Moment, from his rare solo album called Games Dames and Guitar thangs, I don't believe this one bit btw, but we will see.

Meloh9 said:

U R crazy. Listen to Do Me Baby, the beginning piano intro. Then listen to the repeated piano riff that is in 2 Live And Die in LA...it's the SAME FUCKING PART, Sped up.

BobGeorge909 said:

The sample in "2 Live & Die in LA" IS from "Do Me, Baby"

but its actually from Melissa Morgan's cover version, which is why the melody is the same, but the instrument is different.

MetroArea said:

Whats with the religious hatred. I have every right to consider Makaveli to be Black Jesus.
[Edited 7/12/05 17:45pm]

namepeace said:

Mos Def, Common, Chuck D etc..... have no emotion. They have nothing about them that makes you feel what theyre saying. Whilst they are still great MC's - none of them have ever touched my soul. Whilst they make me think, they don't make me cry. They don't make me feel..

and I don't believe he "cancelled himself out", as you say. Is every person in the world either "neo" or "smith"????

NO. People have both sides. It is only in the acceptance of this fact that you can be open to the truth.

People have different definitions of what defines, "the best". Tupac was the G.O.A.T - because he poured his heart and soul into every single word. He stayed true to himself, and more importantly, his people. He never forgot where he came from.



RIP BLACK JESUS
[Edited 7/12/05 17:54pm]

hell no

Militant said:

Are you serious? How old are you?

Because you couldn't be more wrong. Black on Both Sides, Resurrection, and the greatest hip-hop album ever, Nation of Millions? Oh, Militant, I hope you're kidding.



You call him Black Jesus. You can't be neo if you're also smith.

I say he's a great bnt flawed artist, and not the GOAT.



The difference is, you think Tupac is the only one who fits that bill. I say no.

Companies like Clear Channel need to be kept under some type of control instead of being given a free hand to control and manipulate what is played and kept popular.

Many people on this site have said there are other great forms of music out there besides hip hop but you just have to go out and look for it. Well, this music should get radio and video airplay just like hip hop does. When hip hop finally has to compete with other music, just like all other music has in the past, it will either go out of style, go underground, or simply lose some of it's dominating power and have to share the airwaves with other music. When this happens, the "thug" image will also lose a lot of it's power and influence.

You are exactly right. The major corporations are the ones to blame and I have been bitching about them for years.

That's a great signature line but people wouldn't know what it meant unless they saw this thread.



Thank you. Being a longtime Prince fan since 1979, he has influenced me to be a pimp, bitch, and whore all rolled up into one.

Just because a particular artist doesn't make you feel or think or cry, it doesn't mean that they don't have any soul.

Guess what!?!?! Some people don't get Prince - they don't feel his music like you do. The same goes for any artist.

There were a whole load of people who liked the Pat Boone covers. He sold a ton of records - people were feeling him. Just like people are feeling R. Kelly right now. I don't but a lot of people do.

Militant said:

duuuuude come off it just a bit ok? u make good points but this one is ridiculous! aint nooooo hateration...its reality, how pac gon be black jesus when jesue IS black?

vainandy said:

Militant said:

I consider you, a fool.

Militant said:

Can you go into more depth with that statement?
I don't see the comparison between the two but
maybe you could enlighten me.

MetroArea said:

That's OK. I consider you to be a fool also. A fool who misplaces her punctuation.

namepeace said:

Nation of millions is a great album. However Makaveli : The 7 Day Theory is a better one. When it comes to politics, sure, P.E take the crown every time. But politics is not the only thing I care about. There's only so much politics you can take, and if I'm in that mood, I will listen to "It Takes A Nation of millions..." or "Fear of a black planet", or anything by Immortal Technique, or Paris.

But I stick to my guns about what I said. If you think Mos, Com or Chuck have the intensity and sheer emotion of 'Pac, then you are the one that is wrong.

However I can see where you are coming from, and respect your opinion, as you have made valid points.

Who says you can't be both Neo & Smith? Besides , 'pac came full circle. He was smart enough to realise that the gangsta songs would widen his audience. Please listen to The 7 Day Theory, and if you can get hold of it, then unreleased "One Nation" bootleg that 'Pac was working on just before he was murdered. These are not gangsta albums.

Listen to songs like "Hold Ya Head", and "Krazy".... as deep and positive as anything Public Enemy have ever done.

Also, I never said Tupac is the only one that "fits the bill" as you put it. I just believe he fits it better than anyone else.
[Edited 7/13/05 8:31am]

Militant said:

Paris' clear influence WAS Nation of Millions. It is the Sgt. Pepper of hip-hop. It made hip-hop a legitimate cultural and artistic force. No one did it before. No one will do it again. If you really listen to tracks like "Welcome to the Terrordome" and "Black Steel," they're about more than politics. They're about the sheer despair and isolation of the black American male.



What you're really saying is that Tupac evokes emotions in YOU that none of these other artists do, especially since he's gone. I can see it. "Heaven's Got a Ghetto" and "Dear Mama" are superb. But I listen to "Umi Says," "Heaven Somewhere," "Black Steel," "Much More," "I Am I Be," "Everyday Struggle," and I can make the argument that the emotional impact of the MC's behind those songs is as profound, if not moreso, than 'Pac.

Believe me you have a bunch of people who would swear Biggie (not necessarily me) was everything you say Pac is.




And I respect your love of Tupac, it's not like it's not well placed. He's a great MC.




I've heard bits and pieces, as well as 2Pacalypse, Strictly 4 My Niggaz, All Eyez, etc.

But you're putting him on a mantle of sainthood. Of divinity. My point was, he was flawed, like everyone.


[/quote]

He could be very uplifting. And very, very negative. He's not alone in the "contradictory MC" department. Even greats like KRS-ONE, Brand Nubian, etc. are. All I'm saying is, I think we romanticize Tupac and his legacy because of his untimely death. And it was his attempt to live out the gangsta image (in shorthand, Thug Life) that took the brother's life. He ran with the wrong crowd and was murdered by those he trusted (IMHO). We should love him for the positive things he did and despite his shortcomings (for we all have them), we should mourn the tragedy of his passing, but we should keep his legacy in perspective.

The most OVERRATED rapper ever.

Tupac Shakur is dead.

Or in Cuba, but either way he's too busy to chat. Thanks to a staggering surplus of material recorded before his 1996 murder, the charismatic rapper continues to crank out albums from the grave - nine in total, six of which have gone double platinum and have outsold anything he put out when he was breathing. Ghost Tupac performs with the living (Eminem), the deceased (fellow murder victim Biggie) and even artists (Bruse Hornsby) one might think would cause him to rise from the gracve, incredulous. To date, Tupac has sold 36 million records - as many as Prince - making him the biggest-selling rapper of all time and one of today's richest stars. In the past three years, two seperate theatrical documentaries have been released about him, and a white performance artist in New York debuted a one-man Tupac tribute show in which he wore a nose ring and swigged Hennessy. In nearly every mall in this country, you can still buy Tupacablilia - t-shirts, posters, paintings, jewelry, key chains and, of course, airbrushed denim jackets. he's nothing less than rap's James Dean...it's Kurt Cobain.

But he's also the most overrated star in rap history.

Sure, Tupac was a promising MC with a riveting voice and a consistent if simple flow. He made two excellent records: his 91 debut, 2pacalypse Now, and its follow up, Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. As an entertainer, he was a compelling feast of contradictions: a Black Panther-raised firebrand and a parachute pants wearing dancer in Digital Underground, a guy who would sling big-dick odes to promiscuity ("I Get Around") and write a thoughtful anthem to single mothers like his own ("Keep Ya Head Up"). He was the kind of cat who, in the space of a year, could be arrested for attacking a movie director and also pick himself up an NAACP Image Awasrd nomination.

But when Tupac went to jail (on sexual assault charges in 94), his paranoia got the better of him, and he descended into the EXACT same jailhouse philosopher trip that led to Mike Tyson's Mao Tse-tung tattoo. Incarcerated among the real thugs, Tupac lost touch with his sensitive side, and when he got out he fell in with the wrong crowd (he was bailed out of jail by then Death Row titan Suge Knight) and his music went straight to shit. "California Love", the biggest single off his post prison Death Row debut (the last album released when he was alive), was paint-by-numbers crap: money, cash, hoes, blah blah fuckety blah. The rest of the album wasn't any better. When he died, he had already creatively peaked, but he left behind a dead-letter office of music. There's a REASON Tupac didn't release this shit when he was alive-most of it is lifeless ranting about war and redemption, and it lacks the exuberance and sincerity of his best work. (The usual approach to his work these days is to loop one of his doomsday raps over a corny lite-FM beat.)

His music still sells like mad, though. For all its screw-faced posturing, rap is a deeply sentimental world, quick to canonize its fallen, and Tupac was everything you'd want in a celebrity martyr: good-looking, outrageous and dead before 30. But unfair as it may seem to criticize the dead, it may be time to respectfully call for a Tupac correction. The continued Tupac glut reflects the creative rigor mortis that has plagued hip-hop for years now. After all, if a dead guy can sell a million records rapping over watered-down beats, why innovate???

That's why it's time for all of us to stop buying his records. He was a decent rapper who showed FLASHES of greatness, nothing more or less, and his death was a tragedy. We could appreciate that, if we could just get him to shut up.

BobGeorge909 said:

I could have swore that it had a part of Frantic Moment in it.. the guitar parts? I have to go back and listen again, I even read it online somewhere, I think on Amazon