vainandy said:

Much as I disagree with vain on hip-hop, many longtime hip-hop heads would agree with this statement.

Keepin' it "real" don't mean keepin' it real ignorant.

(P.S. -- Tupac lovers, remember, Thug Life KILLED Tupac. Much as I liked him, that's undeniably true.)

lilgish said:

what?

I'm street.

Thank you. We do agree on something.

vainandy said:

Don't get used to it, now . . .

Vainandy, you're a dirty bitch.

When you say, "Ignorant and thuggish tone," it's ironic because you're inability to respect another's perspective on the world is just the same. Go back and listen to Pac's lyrics and you'll see that what he was saying was far from ignorant - in fact, it was well articulated and rich in American history.

You're a true moron though. Rapping and putting together a rap record is easy as getting a sample and using it as background music, spitting words and lowering yourself. Yikes... you cultureless, ignorant, computer nerd.

Well, the attitude that people still have in regards to not wanting to call hip hop music is not so different then when people, mostly white people, were calling jazz the same thing. So, in time, as all things, the mainstream and mainly white population will play catch up to being cool and only respect things once they have controlled it.

Vainandy, you're a little biatch. Your comments are simple minded and I'm certain you wouldn't be able to go out into society with such an attitude. In fact, I bet you wouldn't make these comments in public.

jayARDAHB said:

Andy is anything but a bitch, you've been pre-warned. The man knows his shit.
[Edited 7/11/05 14:40pm]

lilgish said:

Co-sign. We may disagree on music but vain offered his opinions about the sad state of hip-hop today. Not everyone shares this opinion as to Tupac or other artists, but quite frankly, many hip-hop heads would agree with much of what he says about the genre today.

And vain expressed his opinions without making personal insults.

Yes I am a bitch and I'm a good bitch and yes I am very well known for talking my shit in public, no matter who likes it or not. Also, who do you think made hip hop the huge success that it is today.....it was white teenagers. It never dominated everything when only black people listened to it.
[Edited 7/11/05 15:02pm]

Thank you.

Thank you.

jayARDAHB said:

Hip hop records are mostly bought by white suburban kids. The mainstream has long embraced it even if there are people who don't like the genre just like there are people who don't like country. Hip hop deserves a lot of the criticism that it has attracted but no more than rock in the 70's -- every style has its exploitation acts and its true artists.

jayARDAHB said:

ZZZZZzzzzz

Let's bring race into it..... Zzzzzz

Aerogram said:

Rap is now on the way out, it's had it's commercial peak.

Like all genres it'll always be around, but it's been used, abused, chewed and spat out by the mainstream, in the name of the almighty dollar.

Good riddance!

Once again i can't be arsed with reading all of this but i just wanna say it seems hip hop was telling the truth through good music when white dominant corps got hold of it, dumbed it down while still trying to make it look cool with immoral crap and released it to the mainstream to make money.

AzurePanther said:

It's not about race, it's about money.

Vainandy,and others cussing 'pacs lifestyle... if you knew anything about Tupac's work, you would know that tupac's usage of the word "thug" has nothing to do with the dictionary definition. It simply means the underdog, the person for whom nothing succeeds.

and "Thug Life" is an acronym for "The Hate U Give Lil Infants Fucks Everybody", just as nigga is an acronym for "Never Ignorant Getting Goals Accomplished".... both terms coined by Tupac Amaru Shakur... who I firmly believe to be Black Jesus.

jayARDAHB said:

I agree with this person. Blues is a genere that belongs to a certain set of emotions, for the most part. Getting cheated on, getting misstreated, getting fucked over, etc. Rap grew to conjur the opposite of those images and turned blues on it's head, in terms of lyrics. A certain mentality is needed. Tupac embodied that mentality, then when it was grown, turned that mentality back on it's head agin. Just like when Prince sings a blues song, there's a sense of inauthenticity. And tere isn't much he can do about it, it's simply cuz of his upbringing, his location, and lifestyle. Same with many of the "positive" rappers out there 2day, or "club" rappers. There is authenticity that is lost. While the music is good and entertaining, thiere is undoubtedly a loss of authenticity, simply due to the fact that the topics discussed isn't what rap was about. When groups like the Black Eyed Peas come out screaming Positivity, it's almost not rap any more...it's bridged over to pop. Rap is a dirty, rude, uncongineal art form and needs to stay that way....there's nothing nice about the blues...is there?

The lyrics could be as positive as they want to be but the look, image, and attitude screams louder and influences far more than any lyric.

Militant said:

Come on, son.

Pay attention to his lyrics.

"Definition of a Thug Nigga" and "Hit'Em Up" by themselves refute ur argument.

He was a great MC but let's not romanticize the man with revisionist history.

He could have been the next KRS-ONE.

He turned out to be a would-be genius who was a gangsta MC in the end.

Most of the early days of rap was far from what it became in the 1990s. Most of it was party oriented and for the dance floor....."party over here, party over there"...."wave your hands in the air and wave 'em like you just don't care".

Groups like Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five were rapping about real life things but they were far from thugs. If anything, they looked more like a rap version of The Village People, which wasn't hurting or influencing anyone to go out and act a damn fool. Grandmaster Flash also made many a party record also. For the most part, they were stars that looked like stars (their own original look) and made music that was upbeat and fun. All this extra serious thug bullshit didn't come until later and then they even had to slow the tempo of the music down and strip off all the instruments to worsen it even more.

dumbass said:

Lets just say that a close female associate of his said so during the Xenaphobia

Celly.

BobGeorge909 said:

2pac was 1 of the most important Artist 2 come along in the last 20 years or so!

This has a lot to do with race.

2pac's music and his message spoke for a shit load of people who weren't and still remain unintegrated into a society which mythologically bases itself in equality and multiculturalism.

So, when somebody calls hip hop music ignorant or when someone else thinks that this conversation has nothing to do with race, I suggest that you delve into the politics of race and race relations within the Western world.

This stuff is heavily entrenched in race and racism in our world. It's evident but if you don't have the neccessary frameworks to be able to critique it or be aware of it, you'll never see what exists.

jayARDAHB said:

Well said!

Well the record executives in suits are the ones that are laughing. They are getting rich pimping these clowns out while the suckers are riding around in a souped up hooptie playing a Playstation in the back like a damn child. The major corporations like Clear Channel also have the most to gain by playing it almost exclusively and keeping everything else out so it will never go out of style or go underground like almost every form of music has in the past.

When these rappers dress and act like thugs all in the name of "keeping it real", these executives love it because they see them as "staying in their place in the ghetto where they belong". As for the violence, they could care less also because they see it as "hell, the trash is killing each other off...who cares....we'll just find another sucker". The racist rednecks are the ones getting the biggest kick out of it. They see it as "hell, we don't need the Klan anymore, these fools will kill each other for us".

Yeah, there's plenty of racism...and the suckers are playing right into their hands.

Okay good... Vainandy, I see you're able to see the reality of the situation here.

I got one problem with what you said. Add this to the mix: we've got young black men and women who are the stars of this minstrel show. Above them are the white owners of record labels who are promising these poor, disadvantaged kids a life outside of the ghetto. You know something, when you ain't got nothing, you'll take even a little and when you are offered a shit load, you'll jump all over it in a second. Come on people: these are kids we're talking about!! Kids!!! They need their elder's help!!

These kids have been displaced and live on the margins of a society that ignores and belittles them. What do you expect them to do when an A&R rep invites them to record company headquarters? This has been going on and on forever but the worst part, and I think we can agree here, is the message that is being promoted. The glamourization of guns and bitches and hoes and violence and all that.

The real shame is that none of ya'll have discussed how poorly the record companies treat these youngin's. They're taking advantage of people who are vulnerable. I mean, come on!! Ya'll are Prince fans and this is exactly what Prince was fighting for throughout the later part of 90s and 2000. I guess most of us missed the point huh?

The real anger should be directed at the power structures of the music industry and then larger, of society - which even, larger still, is heavily entrenched in racist ideology.

vainandy said:

[Edited 7/11/05 20:47pm]

vainandy said:

The media always portray black people in a bad light. Whether it be in showing high-speed chases on TV or labelling in crime news. It's no wonder people think of them that way. They've been through so much and brought decency in music and lyrics of course all the corps don't want that, instead they want to keep us dumb enough to buy their products and spread more hate. It's such a shame.

What have i done now?

vainandy said:

RMFAO!

And I think you need to update your signature with this comment, Vain: "...give me something to dance to and keep the "stories" for the old folks in the rocking chair on the front porch to tell".


You are such a bitch Vain - and I mean that as a compliment.