From Moguls and Madmen: The Pursuit of Power in Popular Music by Jory Farr, copyright 1994, pp.184-191:

[Benny] Medina talked frequently to Prince and sometimes had long, draining conversations, reassuring the star when the critics didn’t understand him or completely misinterpreted his music or image. Medina had tried to serve as some sort of editor occasionally, but Prince trusted almost nobody but himself.

Like so many geniuses, Prince could be his own worst enemy. Lenny Waronker, the president of Warner Bros. Records and an acclaimed producer, had once tried to give Prince some advice, but His Purpleness had reportedly sneered: “How can I take advice,” he told Waronker, “from a guy who wears jeans and white socks to work?”

Maybe Waronker wasn’t the one to be a mentor; maybe nobody could fill that role. But part of Prince’s problem was that he’d isolated himself artistically.

“Do you want to edit people that have so much potential?” Medina asked. “Or do you want to start to look at people who have a body of work? Who’s to say what we’re supposed to do with that kind of person who has so much talent? Is he that insulated? Or is he that original? Are we that original? It ain’t like the record industry is making a lot of great records. The few times that Prince does listen – man, I got him writing up music for a Jim Brooks musical – a forty-million dollar film. I don’t know whether it’s going to work or not. But I think he’s written some shit that’s like George Gershwin.”

“Prince needs the slack. But he’s got to get rid of that N.P.G. shit,” said [Pharoah] Afrika [Baby Bambaataa], who’d been listening the whole time even as he was checking out some fly chicks over at the next table. The N.P.G., or New Power Generation, was Prince’s flashy new band. “I want to see Prince without the N.P.G.”

“Prince is just trying too hard,” said [Peter] Edge [a New York-based Warner Bros. A&R man], who grew up in Great Britain but lived in New York.

“I think this is the last time you’ll see Prince with this band,” Medina said. “Prince knows I don’t like this band. He knows I don’t like Tony M. I love Rosie Gaines. Prince is most comfortable onstage. He doesn’t like parties. How many geniuses are we gonna sit around and talk about? How many people are on a genius level? Prince is one of those. I mean, look at Michael Jackson. He has to go on TV and spend more time talking about his cosmetic surgery and his father than about the music he is writing.”

“It takes away from the whole art,” said Afrika, “having to watch that Michael Jackson-Oprah shit.”

“You ever seen Michael Jackson sit down at the piano and play something?” Medina asked.

“Michael can’t play jack shit,” said Afrika, finishing off his glass of wine, pouring a refill and checking out some almond-eyed beauties at the next table.

“I’m more concerned today that a guy like Prince has to worry about charts and the media instead of just making music,” Medina said. “People think his shows make a whole lot of money, but they don’t. You think with the shows at Radio City Music Hall and the Apollo next week – you think that he’s making money? He’s not. So who are we to edit him? Buy our record, and if you don’t like it, it’s OK. But be careful how you edit, because you don’t know what you might miss.”

“From a Gemini to a Gemini,” Afrika said, “I’m saying, ‘Prince, I’m just as lost as you. I forgive you for this video [“My Name Is Prince”]’ Cause when I look at him, I’m thinking, ‘Gemini, we will get through this.’ We will get through this. Because these are some very hard times for creative people. I pity him because I’m going through the shame shit. But that N.P.G. shit is too fucking childish. And that rapper? He’s a joke.”

“I don’t think Prince should ever do rap,” Medina said. “I don’t think he should ever be doing rap like he’s got it on this record. I told him, ‘You picked some whacked-ass rap mother-fucker who done dressed in a silk outfit, all pomped up and pimp tipped.’ But when I listened to the tracks he put up underneath them, I asked him, ‘Why couldn’t you write a song to that? You’re an amazing lyricist and melodist. Are you getting lazy about this sort of thing? Are you trying to pander to these other art forms?’”

“Prince is trying too hard,” Edge said.

The waiter came by with dinner, and the conversation went on pause for a minute. Medina ate some fried chicken and popcorn shrimp. But Prince was still on his mind.

“Everyone else is picking from each other’s brain. There’s no originality. Everything they listen to is something somebody else did. They’re just trying to kick ass. How many record company people you know who write anything? They’re all basing their opinions on something they heard that somebody told them is really cool. And their opinion could be changed tomorrow by their girlfriend or their wife, or by their boyfriend. How many creative people do you ever really deal with? You have to ask yourself. On a given day, how many people are starting something visionary from beginning to end? Most people are surrounding the artists and trying to facilitate the process. In a way it’s pathetic, because a lot of the artists become victims of the facilitators. I wish more artists could hang with more artists.”

“Can’t we make aesthetic judgments on Prince?” Edge asked. He and Medina were used to playing devil’s advocate for each other.

“Does Prince put out too much stuff? Yeah. Could it be condensed? Maybe. But we’re here to put that out, as far as I’m concerned. Because nobody knows what’s going to work. And I don’t know any artists who don’t have periods they go through where people question what they do – the greatest painters, the greatest dancers, the greatest musicians. It’s how they come out of it, like any indulgence. And if they’re not indulgent, they’re not artists. They’re probably marketing people. Who knows what it’s like to really be on top, to have been the number-one-box-office-gross, Elvis-type motherfucker?”

“Eighty-five percent of music today is working the machines,” said Afrika. “And this nigger is going out with his hands. He’s one of the few people left from the old school.”

“Personally, I think it takes a lot of courage to walk around with that hairstyle and those clothes,” Medina said.

“Especially if you ain’t doing drugs,” said Michael [Small], and everyone howled.

“Most of the great ones who’ve reached Prince’s age are already over,” Medina said when the laughter died down. “Think about it: James Brown, George Clinton, Sly Stone. Hendrix was dead by this time. Little Richard and Robert Johnson.” [Actually, Medina wasn’t quite accurate about James Brown and George Clinton. Even in their late thirties, they were making important music].

“And Michael Jackson is not really alive,” said Michael. “They killed Michael Jackson a few years ago. Imagine if we find out Prince is a white boy in disguise.”

In a way, Medina was a good match for Prince. Both were loners and both had a wide appreciation for everything from rock and Delta blues to soul and funk. A few weeks later, I went with Medina to see Prince, who was playing three sold-out shows at the Universal Amphitheatre.

“Prince does push everything to the edge, and I know how lonely that feels,” Medina said a few minutes before the show started. “We had a five-hour meeting about that today, and Prince asked me, ‘How can I compete with an industry now where everyone wants to copy each other? If there’s no room left for originality, then what time am I living in?’ He asked the right questions.”

The concert kicked off with florid chords and a prissy woman news reporter’s voice: “Prince, it’s been a long time since you’ve done an interview. Where have you been the past five years?”

“I been at your mama’s house,” Prince’s offstage voice said, and the audience convulsed in raucous, bawdy laughter. The concert, fashioned around a silly story involving an erotically repressed princess named Mayte, had gotten panned a few days earlier by a Los Angeles Times critic who seemed to judge all music by how political and socially conscious it was. Prince had written powerful political songs – “Sign O’ The Times” had proven that. But he wasn’t Woody Guthrie or Bob Dylan. Musically he was a spiritual descendant of James Brown, George Clinton, Jimi Hendrix and Sly Stone: a revolutionary who worked within a tradition even as he broke all the rules and pushed everything else to the edge. A lot of people raised on the formulaic bilge that black R&B had become didn’t have the patience for him; others got turned off by Prince’s weird persona and eccentricities. [Critics loved to ridicule Prince’s name change to , a symbol combining male and female]. But once you got past all that, the show was protoplasmically funky.

Medina hadn’t signed Prince, but he had helped steer the singer back to the top of the charts. Diamonds and Pearls, a slick R&B album that had spawned a big hit (“Cream”), had positioned Prince as a mainstream, silky-voiced heartthrob. But on his latest CD Prince was mostly back to his hard-funk roots, making music that was both bold and intelligent. Not that he didn’t make bizarre judgments that drove Medina crazy – like the inclusion of “My Name Is Prince,” a silly rap song. With slick, lame rapping, the song proved that Prince, on some fundamental level, didn’t understand the basic street attitude of hip-hop culture.

“Even though Diamonds & Pearls was a hit, I told him, ‘Prince, I can’t believe you ain’t funky,’” Medina said, shaking his head. “On this record, we got into some huge fights. He wanted ‘My Name is Prince’ on the album and I wanted it off. He wanted it as a first single, but I knew this record wasn’t finished yet. ‘It’s not time yet,’ I told him. ‘Take some time. Take some time, man.’ But who am I to sit there and tell this artist what to do? Prince thinks that whatever he writes is something being sent through him, and that as he plays he needs to put it out – because he’s done now. Whoever gets this will get this and receive it in the way he wanted, and whoever doesn’t, won’t. Prince told me, ‘I’m not trying to sell records like Michael Jackson. Look what selling records has done to Michael Jackson. I can still play. But Michael can’t play nothin’ I can. Not as good as I can. Ever, ever, ever.’ Maybe that’s his ego talking, but I’ve seen Prince play and I know it’s also reality. By your standards or mine. Prince will get back to the place where he figures out what he needs to do. Prince told me, ‘This music is something I created and I need to get it out there, because as soon as I get it out I got something else to do.’ You need to indulge those artists.”

Medina listened carefully to the next few songs, which included “7,” one of Prince’s best new compositions, and some jungle funk that saw the Minneapolis star working the audience like a backyard barbecue. Medina grinned and leaned into my ear.

“That’s what I love about him. Most pop stars aspire to play stadiums; Prince aspires to play clubs. Contact, you know? At Radio City Music Hall he played three nights in a row and he had them in his hands. He took New York by storm. Every night after he did Radio City Music Hall he went to some other club and played for hours. One night, he went to the USA club and played ‘til four thirty in the morning. Another night I hooked up with him and Lenny Kravitz and he took Lenny on stage with him at the Apollo. Lenny laid in the back – he was smart. He was blown away.”

With each successive song, Prince seemed to be loosening up. Midway through “Get Satisfied,” a tune he’d written for George Clinton, Prince led the crowd in a call-and-response sequence. I noticed Medina boogying hard, hands jabbed in the air, rocking to what had become a butt-shaking meltdown. “C’mon, I can’t hear you!” Prince yelled as the New Power Generation nailed down a slow-grinding groove and the crowd chanted, “Let’s get satisfied!”

“See, what Prince does is weave ideas of tunes that he’s working on for other artists into his show,” Medina said after the song shuddered to a stop. “It’s an interesting way to make audiences identify with it before they’ve even heard it. Prince doesn’t separate music. The whole thing is his universe: what he’s working on today, what he’s working on in the studio, what he’s doing for other artists.”

At the intermission, Medina handed me a backstage pass and took off without a word, moving like a shark through water. Already a huge crowd had gathered and fans were pushing their way toward two bouncers who guarded the gates into a buzzing hive of Hollywood scenesters. There were music executives and film producers, models and actors. But no one was more famous than Magic Johnson, who was standing in the center, towering above everyone, surrounded by bodyguards. Medina saw him, but was busy for the moment talking to the president of Paisley Park Records, Prince’s label. It was only later, when Johnson had had his fill of signing autographs, that Medina went up to him and said a few words in private.

“I wrote an episode for him on The Fresh Prince,” Medina said right afterward, referring to the TV show based on his own life story. “That’s what we were talking about.”

At thirty-five, Benny Medina was one of the most powerful blacks in entertainment, but after eight years at Warner Bros. he had yet to deliver on his promise. Some of the artists he’s signed – Tevin Campbell, Karyn White, Club Nouveau and Naughty by nature – had had big records. And it was Medina who had set up the deal that linked the Cold Chillin’ rap label, with Big Daddy Kane, Biz Markie and others, to Warner Bros. But he hadn’t found any artists who were visionaries…
[Edited 6/18/05 23:04pm]

really interesting, thanks for posting

Very interesting ...
Thanks...

The best quote is :
"Prince told me, ‘I’m not trying to sell records like Michael Jackson. Look what selling records has done to Michael Jackson. I can still play. But Michael can’t play nothin’ I can. Not as good as I can. Ever, ever, ever.’ Maybe that’s his ego talking, but I’ve seen Prince play and I know it’s also reality ."

krayzie said:

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"didn’t understand the basic street attitude of hip-hop culture"

This kills me. I read this book ten years ago and nothing has changed.

Why is it so important that all black people must understands "the streets".
I will always belived that someone at WB put the idea into P's head that he had to have rap in his music. When he never really needed it in the first place.

It RnB artist have never put rappers in their songs we might have some RnB now.

laurarichardson said:

i don't think that quote had anything 2 do with BLACK people..i think it has do with people period, if ur gonna do hip hop, rap or whatever u call it..u gotta understand the attitude of it all..cuz that in someways is what its about

Moonwalkbjrain said:

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Sorry buddy but Hip-Hop came from the Latin and Black community. The conversation is between Benny Medina who is latin and Afrika Bambatta who is black.

laurarichardson said:

I didn't know that. How does the Latin part factor in?


Regardless, you don't have to give the Sugar Hill Gang and the earlier rappers a shout out every time you grab a mic. We know who originated it. The point Medina was making and moonwalk was referring to is that unless you've got a feel for hip-hop (and no you don't have to live on the streets) it's not going to work. If it were strictly a color thing Prince, or better yet Tony M, would be a better rapper than say Eminem. As we all know that's not the case.

laurarichardson said:

I feel what you are saying...but i think you are a little off base....I think the quote was pertaining to Prince's attempt to utilize hip-hop in his sound during the NPG years....The comment was made in connection with Prince recruiting a wack ass rapper by the name of Tony M and not knowing that he was indeed subpar...The reason Prince picked Tony M was because of his lack of understanding hip-hop...It's just like an R&B artist who wants to incorporate jazz into his music and decides to go with Kenny G....It's not about trying to understand the streets..it's about having enough respect for the genre (any genre) of music...to really understand what's real and what's complete shit...

Prince didn't understand that because he never had any true respect for hip-hop...Back then, he was like a lot of people on this site...He couldn't tell the difference between Nas or Nelly...
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murph said:

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I understand what the quote was pertaining too. I am saying that he did not need Tony M or any other rapper. I don't think a musician should have to respect or bow down to a rapper and as much as people go on about real Hip-Hop you can know see rapper like Nelly selling a lot more CD than Nas. Therefore, P may have been a little head of the curve.

P does not need to concern himself with the genre.

laurarichardson said:

yea i know that..i know where it all came from and i know who afrika and benny are..whodknee summed up my point pretty well:



that was my point..it has nothing to do with all black having to be street, understanding the street, etc...

murph said:

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Prince picked Tony 'M' bcuz he was from Minny and he had been part of the scene since Purple Rain. Prince has always been about representing the MPLS! Prince incorporates all types of styles in his music so doin some hiphop was inevitable.I keep tellin y'all that 'Irresistable Bitch' was a rap record back in the day if u listen 2 the song closely. He's rappin the verses. Prince is rapping the verses in the song 'Prince and The Band' that he sang at the Xenaphobia Celly's as well as some sets in the Musicology Tour.
Prince ain't tryin 2 compete with rappers on that level but do rap the way Prince does rap just like the way Prince does James Brown or George Clinton!

ELBOOGY said:

PReach it. I've been wanting to say the same thing for quite a while, but didn't have the words to say it.

ELBOOGY said:

y'know..i can get with wantin 2 rep where u come from and all that...but i think its a slap in the face 2 all the GOOD rappers from minny when u hire a lame ass like tony m strictly to rep where u come from.

Moonwalkbjrain said:

Yeah, if Tony M is the best your city has to offer.....

ELBOOGY said:

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Prince picked Tony 'M' bcuz he was from Minny and he had been part of the scene since Purple Rain. Prince has always been about representing the MPLS! Prince incorporates all types of styles in his music so doin some hiphop was inevitable.I keep tellin y'all that 'Irresistable Bitch' was a rap record back in the day if u listen 2 the song closely. He's rappin the verses. Prince is rapping the verses in the song 'Prince and The Band' that he sang at the Xenaphobia Celly's as well as some sets in the Musicology Tour.
Prince ain't tryin 2 compete with rappers on that level but do rap the way Prince does rap just like the way Prince does James Brown or George Clinton!



Murph says.....
Again, I never said there was anything wrong with incorporating hip-hop or any other genre of music...Just have enough respect for the music to know when something should be taken outside and shot...I think Prince gets it now from his work with MC's like Common...

What you have to remember is that throughout most of the '80s, Prince showed complete contempt for hip-hop (see Black Album...) So, the point that the book was making was that Prince's lack of understanding of the artform is what led him to recruit Tony M from MPLS or whereever the fuck he came from...We all know he champions hometown artists...but if dude had the knowledge and common sense to know what was good back then, he would not have picked up Tony M, Robin Powers, TC Ellis ect...


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That part cracked me up. Wonder if he coordinated that with slip-on loafers and a shirt tucked into said jeans?


Medina comes across as somebody who's very passionate about Prince's music but still has the ability to be objective about it.

As for 'My Name is Prince', Bambaataa's right. That song was such a mistake. It's embarrassing to listen to. It made P sound like a narcissist and egomaniac lyrically and out of step with reality musically.

I think the 90s stuff is flawed in places because P started trying to jump on any old bandwagon. 3 genres he doesn't do well are Hip-Hop, House and Reggae, yet he seemed to be convinced he could do them all at that time. They're all genres that require an understanding of the subculture or scene they were born from, not just musical building blocks.

Moonwalkbjrain said:[quote]

laurarichardson said:

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My point is P does not need it at all. No rapping none at all and plenty of people assume that if you are black you got to be rapping

Moonwalkbjrain said:

It's not about the best Rapper in town it's about he was in Prince's camp off and on since Purple Rain and Prince knew him and Tony could rap so 1+1=2. Just like Bobby Z's ass surely was'nt the best drummer but he served Prince's purpose. The same thing with T.C. Ellis. They were long time friends and Prince rep'd his boys from Minny, just like he did Sonny T.

murph said:

I say that Prince would have still picked them bcuz they all were connected 2him in 1 way or another. That's y i respect P 4 representing his hometown like that. EX: La& Babyface grew up in Cincinnati blewup in the group called the DEELE and moved 2 Atlanta started LaFace Records and did'nt sign any of the hot acts from Cincy or reach back. And Cincy had musicians and bands that could rival MPLS like Midnight Star, Bootsy,Zapp, and others. So i respect
P 4 doin that and i don't think it was a case of P not understanding the culture
of hiphop but more so that P is gonna do hiphop the way that P is gonna do it just like how he does Jazz with a touch of Prince. Some people r going 2 like it and some will hate it but that P is painting the picture 4himself so that he likes it and not worry about the mainstream!And by the way, "My Name is Prince" is Arsenio Hall's favorite Prince song!
[Edited 6/20/05 12:51pm]

ELBOOGY said:

I don't know about that homie...but I respect your opinion...the truth is P did not respect hip-hop for much of the '80s..and frankly his choice of MC's were dreadful and it showed he was out of the loop...There's one thing to be loyal..it's quite another thing to be misinformed....Not too many people liked "My Name Is Prince" accept for the hardcore fans who would ride with P if he was burping on a beat...And who the hell is Arsenio anyway????

ELBOOGY said:

Bobby Z was an adequete drummer who could get the job done...Sonny T was talented...T.C. Ellis was better than Tony M...but that's not saying much...fuck repping your boys if your boys ain't shit...

murph said:[quote]

ELBOOGY said:

Bobby Z was an adequete drummer who could get the job done...Sonny T was talented...T.C. Ellis was better than Tony M...but that's not saying much...fuck repping your boys if your boys ain't shit...[/quote]

finally someone who gets it!

murph said:

Like i said b4, P was'nt in competition with hiphop so Tony M. not being a good Rapper had nothing 2do with Prince not respecting hiphop. It was simply who P chose 2do the rapping in the group. Tony M. also was a dancer as well as played some guitar in the NPG. Prince put Vanity and Appollonia as lead vocalist in a girls group. Did u really think that P was thinking that they were the next Labelle or Emotions? No he did what he wanted 2do! Prince respects hiphop but not the crap that was being pushed and promoted an domininated the Radio.
[Edited 6/20/05 19:23pm]