from 1985-1986..part of 1987
i was listening 2 jesse's 12 inches over the weekend
and it got me 2 thinking...jesse had about as much funk in him as prince
.the man even pulled sly stone off the glass pipe.i started 2 look at all of the "swipes" prince took at jesse and the "swipes" jesse took at prince
during that time like
:1)the whole shockadelica thing
2)chanting out jesse's songs during the parade tour"...it's a free world and it's mine" on many shows
3)pepe's do yourself a favor was done by prince 1st..then jesse does it on shockadelica
4)burn u up= feel u up..didnt prince say on the feel u up long stroke " i aint talking about burning nothing baby...i only wanna feel u up"??
5)didnt prince want ta mara (margie cox) 2 be on paisley park?
6)can't remember what song of jesse's..i think it's on i'm the one..he says "kiss this"..possibly referring 2 prince

just an observation..but i think prince and jesse were neck and neck on the funk thing for a few years..

Hmmm. There was some rivalry going on during that time but I feel as though that chorus or Free World was more of a tribute than an attack.

u might want to check out the asspcoated artist forum..there are some extensive discussions about jesse and prince that you might enjoy reading....

after reading i have a new perspective on prince..yes, he is a musicial genius but he was also a very cold and selfish person that used the goodwill of his bandmates and friends to benefit himself....


once he left those friends (or they left him), prince's creative output has not been as inspiring.....makes one wonder.

sosgemini said:

This happens with a great deal of musicians, its typically par for the course in the music world. Furthermore, we all need to realize that there are two sides to every story. I'm not saying that Prince is a saint, we all know he can be a prick, but we must remember that there are two perspectives on things and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

sosgemini said:

That comment is completely subjective, because what you consider interesting in Prince's creative output someone else may not enjoy. It's all a matter of taste. I will say this for the last time, all of these issues took place when Prince was in the midst of his genius run. He was around talented players and he absorbed what they were doing and put it into his sound. He also did that with all of his heros music and those influences are more apparent on the albums than any of the people he was working with at the time. Furthermore, Sly and Larry Graham despised each other during There's A Riot Goin On and Graham eventually left the fold to create a succesful group without Sly, but that does not mean that Sly was not the genius in the fold. Moreover, many say that Sly's output post-Graham was not as good, when instead his style changed.

I will STILL say that Prince was the man in the crew , when you see the reactions of sound engineers like Femi Jiya on the European Documentary on Lovesexy it puts Prince in perspective. Femi and another engineer whose name I cannot remember off hand, were at a loss for words when describing how amazing it was to watch someone so brilliantly talented in the studio. They stated that they had worked with the industries best studio musicians in LA and London and that none of them were even close to Prince. Now THAT makes me wonder.
[Edited 5/15/05 11:54am]

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

thnaks sosgemini:
do u have the links 2 the discussions?

I don't think there was any rivalry between them during 1985-1987. If there was, Prince would have put out some jams that could compete with Jesse's. Jesse was slammin' the hardcore funk that could compete with the mainstream artists of the era. Prince was off in La La Land in a world of his own doing "wierd" music.

revolution75 said:

Click on Forums in the upper left hand corner,after that click on Associated Artists & People and there you go!
[Edited 5/15/05 13:01pm]

man,the same second as prince won oscar ,had number one hit single,number one movie and number one record(purple rain)
that same second rivalry between to of them could not exist.
jesse was just a marginal artist.
prince was the real deal.

and so what if he recorded shocadelica.prince was inspired by the title.
it was only a b side fun track.

oh 2 the contrary,shockadelica was intended 4 use on the camille project
which in addition 2 the black album was an attempt 4 prince 2 regain the r&b/funk market. after listening 2 shockadelica and his b-sides, i started 2 think if i was prince i would definitely have 2 'top' him and jam and lewis. flyte tyme OWNED 1986! the mainstream r&b crowd wasnt feeling prince in '86.besides kiss, he didnt have any breakthrough 'hits' at the time. jesse (and flyte time)was killing him on the minneapolis funk part as far as radio was concerned. true prince made the blueprint 4 the minneapolis sound.jesse and jam and lewis took that blueprint and ran with it.in 1986, prince had moved on and was at his so-called creative peak. mainstream r&b fans didnt care, they wanted that 1981-1984 sound.

If Prince knows how to utilize his "surroundings" does that make him a selfish prick?


Was Bare My Naked Soul released in '96 because Chaos & Disorder was released?

In Rasberry Beret, anyone think the line "old man Johnson's farm" is referring
to Jesse?

Absolutely true. I remember those days very well. Jesse Johnson and Jam & Lewis were definately shaking things up. So was Morris Day. Andre Cymone was also burning things up with his album "AC" and later with his work with Jody Watley. Prince, as well as his side projects, was suffering during the mid to late 1980s.
[Edited 5/16/05 20:08pm]

Prince was suffering during the mid 2 late 80's. Give me a break. Sign o the times, lovesexy, black album. Jam and lewis r good, but u can't truely believe that they r funkier than prince. If u think so, please write down some song titles.And as far as jesse who is a fantastic guitar player, remember he only had 1 good solo album, and that 1 only had 2 or 3 good songs on it. Let me put it this way, if prince had released jesse's album with all of the vocals there would be alot of people talking bad about that album.

P.S. Prince wrote Andre's best song on his solo album. And u can't tell me that u think that that Janet Jackson crap was great.

Bull said:

it was...


so was Cherelle
Alexander Oneal
SOS Band


all released their best work during that time....

and Jody Watley was HUGE back then.

Most definately. Most of the R&B world became more and more pissed with each album he released during this period. R&B stations were playing less and less songs from the albums and, with the exception of "Kiss" and "Adore", the other songs weren't receiving half the airplay that Prince's pre-"Purple Rain" stuff received. It became even more rare to hear a Prince song in a club. People had begun making jokes saying that Prince had absolutely lost his mind and people were straight out laughing at his "wierd", "far out" sound.

Jimmy Jam, Terry Lewis, Morris Day, Jesse Johnson, Andre Cymone, and their side projects, on the other hand were receiving much airplay and much love. Both the radio and the clubs were pumping their records because they were still throwing down hard with the type of funk the R&B fans wanted to hear. Even a lot of the pop fans weren't too happy with Prince in those days.




Jesse Johnson had three albums during the mid to late 1980s:

Jesse Johnson's Revue
Shockadelica
Every Shade Of Love

He also produced two albums for TaMara And The Seen and Da'Krash.

Many a strong cut came from most of these albums. In the 1990s, Jesse also did a rock album called "Bare My Naked Soul".

Andre Cymone had not one, but three solo albums:

Livin' In The New Wave
Surviving The 80s
AC

Of these three albums Prince only wrote one song for Andre Cymone. Andre also went to have a huge success producing Jody Watley.



That was Jam and Lewis that was responsible for her success and it beat the hell out of Prince's stuff at the time.

vainandy said:

Thanks VainAndy. I was thinking along the same lines.
I LOVED Oneal, just bought his Greatest Hits albums.
Cherelle, and Oneal ruled the airwaves,
As did Karen White... don't forget her didn't she marry Jam or Lewis?
I am not your superwoman... is the late 80's "I will Survive" song.

prodigalfan said:

I just google karyn white.. i never realized she was affiliated with Laface and in fact had her biggest hits with them. Well she did marry Lewis.

yeah..Karen wasnt associated with Jam & Lewis till later on....she had one hit with them "Romantic" and then sorta dissappeared....

Lewis & White have sense divorced and he remarried...hey, what happened to her?

To me, Jam & Lewis productions and some of the uptempo LA & Babyface productions during that time had a very similar sound.

sosgemini said:

I was just at a fan site, and they don't mention that Lewis and White divorced. Have they??
I don't know what happened to her, but I really loved her sound and style, more so than the tough girl style of janet back in those days. Karyn and Jody had a feminine style, yet great moves.

prodigalfan said:

oh yeah..they have been divorced for a while.....and yeah, i guess your right..janet did have a tomboy thing going on for the first two albums...but, "love will never do" changed all that...which is kinda funny cause when Jody first came out everyone thought it was Janet's new song...and ive always thought janet's lower range (which she needs to use more often) sounds like jody ala "still a thrill"...

come to think of it, both of them need to use their lower ranges more often....

VANITY, Prince's ex-girlfriend and ex-protegé, became Jesse Johnson's protegé.

He produced her two songs for the Action Jackson soundtrack (Faraway Eyes and Undress) and they were working on an entire album. Then Jesse went to jail and Vanity got lost in a drug haze and the album ended up never happening.

I wonder what Prince thought of Vanity and Jesse's collaboration...
[Edited 5/17/05 1:40am]

vainandy said:

Plus he produced Sue Ann's Blue Velvet album.

scififilmnerd said:

What did Jesse go to jail for? I never knew he spent any time on lock down!

Taurus said:

Something involving a girl and a gun.

I've forgotten the juicy details.
[Edited 5/17/05 10:44am]

Thanks God Prince released ATWIAD and moved on, and released a diverse and profilic catalog. Most of us wouldnt be here if he was stuck in the same old minneapolis funk, that is great, but i would hate if he repeated himself like that forever.

We all Prince can be a bastard, but I think this was more of a competition between musicians. I think there was more animosity between Jam/Lewis and Prince.

Funny, I was just listening to Jesse's first album this weekend. It was fun.