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PrintableDorothyParkerWasCool said: sosgemini said: interesting that all the people you reference are men. women havent even been giving a chance to build stature like that..you have to keep that in mind too.... ill throw the only woman alive who i think would fall in your category of living genius, Bonnie Raitt. A self-confessed fan of Wendy & Lisa...And Joni Mitchell has expressed her respect for them as well. (joni is soo in that league.) But there just arent that many female musicians to be able to access their impact. Another one with the potential of becoming a legend? Meshell...once again, has always given her respect for their talents.... so you see, its just not fair to make that call when woman just havent had the chance to compete with the men in the past. [Edited 5/11/05 14:52pm] Yes I listed all men, and I didn't list any women, hell I didn't even list all the people I feel are genius musicians. Joni Mitchell, Roberta Flack, Carol King and Aretha Franklin are all in that category as well. But not deviating from the point I made in my intial posts...the term GENIUS gets thrown around to easily. W&L are talented but they are not on that GENIUS level, that's a small category. yet prince himself said that gil evans and lisa coleman were the two best piano players ever? hmmm.... this is all very subjective on all of our parts.....and its fun to debate it but in the end all we are doing is justifying our personal view. cha know, bonnie raitt did not get the respect she deserved until she was in her forties.....teena marie still hasnt recieved the respect she deserves. so who knows how history will judge the girls music. all it takes is one song to connect and then the whole world plays its revisitionist game... but hey, be the defender of the term "genius"....  still aint changing how i feel or how history will hold them. only time will tell...Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: DorothyParkerWasCool said: Yes I listed all men, and I didn't list any women, hell I didn't even list all the people I feel are genius musicians. Joni Mitchell, Roberta Flack, Carol King and Aretha Franklin are all in that category as well. But not deviating from the point I made in my intial posts...the term GENIUS gets thrown around to easily. W&L are talented but they are not on that GENIUS level, that's a small category. yet prince himself said that gil evans and lisa coleman were the two best piano players ever? hmmm.... this is all very subjective on all of our parts.....and its fun to debate it but in the end all we are doing is justifying our personal view. cha know, bonnie raitt did not get the respect she deserved until she was in her forties.....teena marie still hasnt recieved the respect she deserves. so who knows how history will judge the girls music. all it takes is one song to connect and then the whole world plays its revisitionist game... but hey, be the defender of the term "genius".... still aint changing how i feel or how history will hold them. only time will tell...Yeah, we will agree to disagree. And yes Lisa is a great piano player in the vein of Gil Evans but to me genius does something NEW, pushes it forward. But I enjoyed the spirited debate...stick to your guns.  | |
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DorothyParkerWasCool said: sosgemini said: yet prince himself said that gil evans and lisa coleman were the two best piano players ever? hmmm.... this is all very subjective on all of our parts.....and its fun to debate it but in the end all we are doing is justifying our personal view. cha know, bonnie raitt did not get the respect she deserved until she was in her forties.....teena marie still hasnt recieved the respect she deserves. so who knows how history will judge the girls music. all it takes is one song to connect and then the whole world plays its revisitionist game... but hey, be the defender of the term "genius".... still aint changing how i feel or how history will hold them. only time will tell...Yeah, we will agree to disagree. And yes Lisa is a great piano player in the vein of Gil Evans but to me genius does something NEW, pushes it forward. But I enjoyed the spirited debate...stick to your guns. First thanks for your input (everyone). The Revolution days were great because great musicians were in one band. I just saw the 1985 performance of "Purple Rain" at the AMA's; it impressed me all over again. Prince & the Revolution (all of them) made great music and changed what was hot back then...thus, the Minneapolis Sound ruled for a while. | |
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Prince with Wendy and Lisa = some great albums
Prince after Wendy and Lisa = some great songs ,many excellent albums and 1 truly great album (SOTT) Wendy and Lisa after Prince = some good albums The girls were a very important part of Prince's career path but on their own the music doesnt come close to Prince's , from ANY part of his career .They've made some pleasant albums , nothing wrong with them , but theyre not as strong as Prince's best work after 1988 and certainly not as strong as his work before 1988. Check out Chocadelica , updated with Lotusflow3r and MPLSound album lyrics April 2nd 2009 :
http://homepage.ntlworld....home2.html | |
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This could be debated forever but it really seems like some Prince lovers just blindly defend him without even trying to see anyone elses point. For someone who has been a fan since the very begining I seen Prince with Dez, Wendy, Miko, Levi, Kat D and Mike Scott. Without a doubt no one complimented Prince better than Wendy, there's not too many that Prince trusted to run HIS band in his absense but she did exactly that. So she didn't nail the solos on a regular basis like Dez, but Dez couldn't have played the funk of Irrisitible Bitch or the beauty of Purple Rain. So for everything someone could knock her for, she made up for it else where. Wendy and Lisa has something that Prince respected, their opinion. He even mentioned in the Mojo interview that they would tell him if something sounded like something he had already done. Prince has been surrounded by a bunch of yes men since the days of old and it shows. It still blows my mind that people can't hear a Wendy and Lisa album (any of the 4) and not pick out what they added to Prince. He sure seems to love their music even if it's too complex for a portion of his fanbase. I'm sure glad that I was able to meet a bunch of people who DO get it though. | |
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dez dickerson couldn't play the funk of Irrisitible Bitch .hehe i hope you are kidding.
dez,miko,levi ,mike scott ,kat dyson could wipe wendy's impotent guitar playing so bad it hurts. i tell you man you saying that is just because you like the movie hehe. monshine that is your opinion,.it's not relevant. you didnt give the facts. in facty many orgers take things for granted. | |
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the only thing wendy and lisa did in prince music is bringing some classical music ideas.
before wendy and lisa prince didn't have string arangmants. he forced with string arangmants on parade. but what else beside that??? he had used complex chords before,with and after his asocciation with wendy and lisa. they didn't brought nothing to his music beside string arangmants. i hope so there are no orgers who think that wendy played that classic funk guitar on kiss. it's prince all the way. | |
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also you should know that wendy and lisa music after prince was prince influanced untill girl bros album.
that album is totaly by wendy and lisa. | |
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If I would have to choose it would be Prince because in my opninon he is a true genius and dont get me wrong Wendy and Lisa are good what they doing but unlike some people (which that their flavor) I didnt stop liking Prince's music after they left or he didnt stop make good music after that October suprise. I liked SOTT, his batman album, and diamonds and pearls, dinner with delores off his chaos and disorder album, and also Emancipation and even Musicology. I admitted his music had change after they left but at the same time I still able to enjoy the songs that he created but not all the songs though. What I am trying to say is that maybe W&L had added flavors to his music but at the same time the brotha could still created some great music too with or without them. And besides Waterfall, Satisfaction, strung out, and are you my baby,This is your life,and also Lolly Lolly, I just cant get into the rest of the songs in their albums. Maybe because I wished Lisa sang lead more as I think she is a better singer even though Wendy is my favorite one or the beats I dunno. However they are very talented film composers and yes the field is very hard for females to get into and i believed if weren't for their association with Prince it will be very difficult for them to break in that field. [Edited 5/15/05 12:18pm] | |
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tookielv said: If I would have to choose it would be Prince because in my opninon he is a true genius and dont get me wrong Wendy and Lisa are good what they doing but unlike some people (which that their flavor) I didnt stop liking Prince's music after they left. I liked SOTT, his batman album, and diamonds and pearls, dinner with delores off his chaos and disorder album, and also Emancipation and even Musicology. I admitted his music had change after they left but at the same time I still able to enjoy the songs that he created but not all the songs though. What I am trying to say is that maybe W&L had added flavors to his music but at the same time the brotha could still created some great music too with or without them. And besides Waterfall, Satisfaction, strung out, and are you my baby,This is your life,and also Lolly Lolly, I just cant get into the rest of the songs in their albums. Maybe because I wished Lisa sang lead more as I think she is a better singer even though Wendy is my favorite one or the beats I dunno. However they are very talented film composers and yes the field is very hard for females to get into and i believed if weren't for their association with Prince it will be very difficult for them to break in that field.
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tookielv said: tookielv said: If I would have to choose it would be Prince because in my opninon he is a true genius and dont get me wrong Wendy and Lisa are good what they doing but unlike some people (which that their flavor) I didnt stop liking Prince's music after they left or that he couldn't able to creat some great music after that October suprise. I liked SOTT, his batman album, and diamonds and pearls, dinner with delores off his chaos and disorder album, and also Emancipation and even Musicology. I admitted his music had change after they left but at the same time I still able to enjoy the songs that he created but not all the songs though. What I am trying to say is that maybe W&L had added flavors to his music but at the same time the brotha could still created some great music too with or without them. And besides Waterfall, Satisfaction, strung out, and are you my baby,This is your life,and also Lolly Lolly, I just cant get into the rest of the songs in their albums. Maybe because I wished Lisa sang lead more as I think she is a better singer even though Wendy is my favorite one or the beats I dunno. However they are very talented film composers and yes the field is very hard for females to get into
and i believed if weren't for their association with Prince it will be very difficult for them to break in that field. I forgot to added that hopefully Prince will reunited with his wendy and lisa someday but at the same time I want him to worked with his other associates just as well like Andre and Dez who are my favorites. | |
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Two factors we need to consider, body of work ie. number of albums released and produced and also would know Wendy and Lisa if they had never joined PRINCE'S band? We would know who Prince is because he was doing quite nicely before they entered the fold. | |
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tookielv said: tookielv said: I forgot to added that hopefully Prince will reunited with his wendy and lisa someday but at the same time I want him to worked with his other associates just as well like Andre and Dez who are my favorites.  | |
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DorothyParkerWasCool said: Two factors we need to consider, body of work ie. number of albums released and produced and also would know Wendy and Lisa if they had never joined PRINCE'S band? We would know who Prince is because he was doing quite nicely before they entered the fold.
2 points here.. 1) Wendy & Lisa were signed to Trevor Horn's record label for seven years. He is the reason why they did not release music after Eroica. Being the perfectionist (and some would argue clinically obsessive) person that he is he refused to allow them out of their contract. This; after they all agreed the music they were creating just wasnt cutting it....finally, after years of frustration bankruptcy was filed as a way out of the contract... 2) wendy and lisa actually had already released an album as children under the moniker Waldorf Salad. It included David, Jonathan and we think Cole (lisa's sister).... not to mention that wendy and lisa's dads were pretty influential within the music industry i dont think its a stretch that one of them would have broken out....actually, i think it would have probably been easier if one of them struck out as a solo artist... but, the genius of who they are is the dynamic that they create together... Space for sale... | |
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DorothyParkerWasCool said: Two factors we need to consider, body of work ie. number of albums released and produced and also would know Wendy and Lisa if they had never joined PRINCE'S band? We would know who Prince is because he was doing quite nicely before they entered the fold.
That true and Prince was just starting getting bigger before Wendy entered the picture with his 1999 album. Prince was already well known with the R&B and funk lovers before Lisa even joined. I think that if werent for Wendy that Lisa probably wouldnt have much influence as far as being the one to tell Prince to be more innovative but Prince still admired and seek her for her classical piano influence though. It took the youngest member like Wendy to altered the band musicially and also personality. That is why Wendy is my best homegirl. I mean Wendy is the type of person that she wouldnt hide when she sees something isnt right and Lisa just basically kept quiet and was there to just play. Yet Lisa became more outspoken when Wendy joined because she might have feel more comfortable if she had some support and also because they were both females who wanted Prince to respect their opinions and also taking them seriously as musicians. | |
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sosgemini said: DorothyParkerWasCool said: Two factors we need to consider, body of work ie. number of albums released and produced and also would know Wendy and Lisa if they had never joined PRINCE'S band? We would know who Prince is because he was doing quite nicely before they entered the fold.
2 points here.. 1) Wendy & Lisa were signed to Trevor Horn's record label for seven years. He is the reason why they did not release music after Eroica. Being the perfectionist (and some would argue clinically obsessive) person that he is he refused to allow them out of their contract. This; after they all agreed the music they were creating just wasnt cutting it....finally, after years of frustration bankruptcy was filed as a way out of the contract... 2) wendy and lisa actually had already released an album as children under the moniker Waldorf Salad. It included David, Jonathan and we think Cole (lisa's sister).... not to mention that wendy and lisa's dads were pretty influential within the music industry i dont think its a stretch that one of them would have broken out....actually, i think it would have probably been easier if one of them struck out as a solo artist... but, the genius of who they are is the dynamic that they create together... Wow I didn't know that they filed bankruptcy or was you referring to trevor? I know that if I am not mistaken that they had some financial trouble in the mid-90s.Well anyway I am glad that they are finally out of that perfectionist a**hole label, put that dreadful events behind them, and now they now got a better studio and also enjoying scoring for films. I think that Wendy wants to give another chance of being sign to a major label I think she said that in interview and I dont know was she joking or serious. She probably wants to so that way she could able to have some financial backup for touring. Speaking of films I heard that they are a gig less because their HBO show Carnivale has been cancelled but they still got crossing jordan among other projects. | |
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somebody filed (but it wasnt trevor)....
and yes Carnivalle was cancelled...but they didnt do the daily scoring so its not really a lost job...they created the theme music and that was that..sorta like randy elfman for the simpsons..then someone else comes in and creates the daily cues based on your theme... Space for sale... | |
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tookielv said: If I would have to choose it would be Prince because in my opninon he is a true genius and dont get me wrong Wendy and Lisa are good what they doing but unlike some people (which that their flavor) I didnt stop liking Prince's music after they left or he didnt stop make good music after that October suprise. I liked SOTT, his batman album, and diamonds and pearls, dinner with delores off his chaos and disorder album, and also Emancipation and even Musicology. I admitted his music had change after they left but at the same time I still able to enjoy the songs that he created but not all the songs though. What I am trying to say is that maybe W&L had added flavors to his music but at the same time the brotha could still created some great music too with or without them. And besides Waterfall, Satisfaction, strung out, and are you my baby,This is your life,and also Lolly Lolly, I just cant get into the rest of the songs in their albums. Maybe because I wished Lisa sang lead more as I think she is a better singer even though Wendy is my favorite one or the beats I dunno. However they are very talented film composers and yes the field is very hard for females to get into and i believed if weren't for their association with Prince it will be very difficult for them to break in that field.
[Edited 5/15/05 12:18pm] Their association with Prince I think hurt them more than it helped in a lot of ways. But I do think it's funny that when Gwen S and Van Hunt wanted that "Prince sound of the 80's" they both went to Wendy and Lisa  | |
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They went to wendy and lisa because they were good musicans and more important, the girls were witness to the genious Prince. Nothing more than that. | |
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EverlastingNow said: tookielv said: If I would have to choose it would be Prince because in my opninon he is a true genius and dont get me wrong Wendy and Lisa are good what they doing but unlike some people (which that their flavor) I didnt stop liking Prince's music after they left or he didnt stop make good music after that October suprise. I liked SOTT, his batman album, and diamonds and pearls, dinner with delores off his chaos and disorder album, and also Emancipation and even Musicology. I admitted his music had change after they left but at the same time I still able to enjoy the songs that he created but not all the songs though. What I am trying to say is that maybe W&L had added flavors to his music but at the same time the brotha could still created some great music too with or without them. And besides Waterfall, Satisfaction, strung out, and are you my baby,This is your life,and also Lolly Lolly, I just cant get into the rest of the songs in their albums. Maybe because I wished Lisa sang lead more as I think she is a better singer even though Wendy is my favorite one or the beats I dunno. However they are very talented film composers and yes the field is very hard for females to get into and i believed if weren't for their association with Prince it will be very difficult for them to break in that field.
[Edited 5/15/05 12:18pm] Their association with Prince I think hurt them more than it helped in a lot of ways. But I do think it's funny that when Gwen S and Van Hunt wanted that "Prince sound of the 80's" they both went to Wendy and Lisa I partially agreed. I think that the girls still disgusted the idea of being only know as Prince's backup singers and musicians so yes I think that hurt them some, and they still have to prove people that they do have their own identity as being talented and very serious musicians at their right despite they done movie scores and session work. It funny how the general public think that their career ended after 1986 which it is far from the truth. but at the same time they probably (they ought be) grateful that their association with Prince has helped them knocking down doors for opportunities that it probably wouldn't been easy to get. Or Gwen or Van Hunt wouldnt called them havent they worked for Prince. | |
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sosgemini said: DorothyParkerWasCool said: Two factors we need to consider, body of work ie. number of albums released and produced and also would know Wendy and Lisa if they had never joined PRINCE'S band? We would know who Prince is because he was doing quite nicely before they entered the fold.
2 points here.. 1) Wendy & Lisa were signed to Trevor Horn's record label for seven years. He is the reason why they did not release music after Eroica. Being the perfectionist (and some would argue clinically obsessive) person that he is he refused to allow them out of their contract. This; after they all agreed the music they were creating just wasnt cutting it....finally, after years of frustration bankruptcy was filed as a way out of the contract... 2) wendy and lisa actually had already released an album as children under the moniker Waldorf Salad. It included David, Jonathan and we think Cole (lisa's sister).... not to mention that wendy and lisa's dads were pretty influential within the music industry i dont think its a stretch that one of them would have broken out....actually, i think it would have probably been easier if one of them struck out as a solo artist... but, the genius of who they are is the dynamic that they create together... I think Wendy would been the better solo artist. She is outgoing she has this take charge personality that I like and also she can played some funky rhythm guitar and she has the IT front woman stage presence. | |
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tookielv said: EverlastingNow said: Their association with Prince I think hurt them more than it helped in a lot of ways. But I do think it's funny that when Gwen S and Van Hunt wanted that "Prince sound of the 80's" they both went to Wendy and Lisa I partially agreed. I think that the girls still disgusted the idea of being only know as Prince's backup singers and musicians so yes I think that hurt them some, and they still have to prove people that they do have their own identity as being talented and very serious musicians at their right despite they done movie scores and session work. It funny how the general public think that their career ended after 1986 which it is far from the truth. but at the same time they probably (they ought be) grateful that their association with Prince has helped them knocking down doors for opportunities that it probably wouldn't been easy to get. Or Gwen or Van Hunt wouldnt called them havent they worked for Prince. and like most people I'm sure they are greatful. I don't think they see it as much as an us vs. Prince thing as we make it out to be. | |
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EverlastingNow said: tookielv said: If I would have to choose it would be Prince because in my opninon he is a true genius and dont get me wrong Wendy and Lisa are good what they doing but unlike some people (which that their flavor) I didnt stop liking Prince's music after they left or he didnt stop make good music after that October suprise. I liked SOTT, his batman album, and diamonds and pearls, dinner with delores off his chaos and disorder album, and also Emancipation and even Musicology. I admitted his music had change after they left but at the same time I still able to enjoy the songs that he created but not all the songs though. What I am trying to say is that maybe W&L had added flavors to his music but at the same time the brotha could still created some great music too with or without them. And besides Waterfall, Satisfaction, strung out, and are you my baby,This is your life,and also Lolly Lolly, I just cant get into the rest of the songs in their albums. Maybe because I wished Lisa sang lead more as I think she is a better singer even though Wendy is my favorite one or the beats I dunno. However they are very talented film composers and yes the field is very hard for females to get into and i believed if weren't for their association with Prince it will be very difficult for them to break in that field.
[Edited 5/15/05 12:18pm] Their association with Prince I think hurt them more than it helped in a lot of ways. But I do think it's funny that when Gwen S and Van Hunt wanted that "Prince sound of the 80's" they both went to Wendy and Lisa Why so? They're session musicians, and Prince is not. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Ifsixwuz9 said: EverlastingNow said: Their association with Prince I think hurt them more than it helped in a lot of ways. But I do think it's funny that when Gwen S and Van Hunt wanted that "Prince sound of the 80's" they both went to Wendy and Lisa Why so? They're session musicians, and Prince is not. say that one more time... they didn't hear you. | |
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they are *not* session musicians..they do *not* make a living that way...they only work (and mostly this is wendy) on albums when asked...
wendy is spending more and more time as a producter these days... and lisa has only appeared on gwen, neil finn and meshell's albums within the last five years.....she only works with people she wants to when she artistically feels its worthy of her attention..... she would be starving if she made her living as a session player.... good grief people.....  Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: they are *not* session musicians..they do *not* make a living that way...they only work (and mostly this is wendy) on albums when asked...
wendy is spending more and more time as a producter these days... and lisa has only appeared on gwen, neil finn and meshell's albums within the last five years.....she only works with people she wants to when she artistically feels its worthy of her attention..... she would be starving if she made her living as a session player.... good grief people..... That is true and they do make their living of doing tv and movie scores and I guess that they are doing well with it. I read Wendy is producing for upcoming group and as for Lisa besides doing Crossing Jordan she been quiet these days. [Edited 5/17/05 4:36am] | |
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sosgemini said: they are *not* session musicians..they do *not* make a living that way...they only work (and mostly this is wendy) on albums when asked...
wendy is spending more and more time as a producter these days... and lisa has only appeared on gwen, neil finn and meshell's albums within the last five years.....she only works with people she wants to when she artistically feels its worthy of her attention..... she would be starving if she made her living as a session player.... good grief people..... You can call it whatever you want. Sounds like session work to me. Just becuase they can afford to be choosey and work when and with whom they want doesn't mean they don't do session work. Now unless you're saying they are doing freebies for the people who keep getting name checked whenever this subject is broached then I guess they aren't doing session work. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later. -Miles Davis- | |
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