just a general question. it's almost as if he doesn't have any weight to the general public anymore.
i know it's easy to blame all of that on warner bros., but i do think they contributed to his withering popularity by delaying the release of "the gold experience," clearly one of his masterpieces.

You can pin this one on the name change. We all know the reasons why he did it, but the public think it was stupid and its a dog that will just never die.

Total unwillingness 2play by the rules.

...i think it may have started with 'around the world in a day' being so different from 'purple rain...'

In addition to what's been said, another confusion for the public might be the fact that it seems like just when Prince has a great, solid band -- he breaks them up. Granted The Man could play every instrument & be a one-man band as he's done on certain songs, what's with changing bands all the time?

Plus, I think his more popular stuff tends to be when he makes good ol' rock-n-roll -- not when trying to be P. Diddy, not when trying to make a relgiou statement without saying what the exact religion or belief is, not when trying to do gangsta rap, not when making videos with a hand-held camera, and not when turning your back on the achievements and person you are.

I think it's because Prince has so much musical output that the way radio and the general buying public works, neither could keep up with him. He kept expanding and growing with his music, while most of radio, and therefore the public that listens to radio, prefers the "safe" and the "predictable."

Interestingly enough, a similar thing happened to Joni Mitchell. With each successive album she made post COURT AND SPARK, radio became further and further estranged from her because they considered her music too complex or esoteric for radio. Today, she is considered a legend and a unique force in the history of recorded music. Prince will turn out to be no less, believe me.

I also think the name change contributed quite a bit post 1992. It's funny though, I always got why Prince did the name change from the beginning. I would always explain it to people in exactly the way Prince did when he was able to "reclaim" the name Prince at the press conference in the year 2000.

Paul
[This message was edited Sat Mar 23 21:08:11 PST 2002 by geminipaul]

The first time i noticed a backlash against Prince was when he didn't participate in the "We Are The World" thing. That's when people at my school started getting turned off on him. Then more and more reports came out about him not being a nice person etc, etc. Then came "Around The World In A Day". Then Came "Under The Cherry Moon" which REALLY hurt him. So by then his following had really shrunk but he still had a pretty good fan base. But things were never the same. Fast forward to the name change... Man, that really turned off a lot of people. I think that capped it.

timing, refusal to kiss mtv's ass & and him coming off un-human....


i really think prince could have rebounded from the whole name change and his constant diversion from mainstream pop. throughout the 80's he seemed to be able to release work that was groundbreaking and not mainstream and the public was willing to listen.. I think his downfall occured in the mid 90's. During the 80's, the public liked their stars a lil bit spacey. Thats why we had off the wall stars like Madonna, Cindy Lauper and Michael Jackson. But when the Seattle grundge thang came along, the public started appreciating "real" performers. People they could relate to. Hence Maddy changing her image to become more like us common folks. Prince, stayed on course, with cryptic conferences and talk show appearances....People seem to dismiss him as, (err, i hate to use this term but) fruity.

Cant blame it on him being cutting edge because Prince's album sales dropped after he fully embrassed the music "flavor" of the moment (Diamonds & Pearls- a huge hit, The Symbol Album- a minor hit and even The Gold Experience- a small hit). These albums were released further apart than any other in his timeperiod, so you can't blame his creative output. So why the decline in sales? Simple, his refusal to play MTV's rules. Then, WB started putting less and less $ into marketing because they were fighting with him. I think its testament to how good his work was...that they sold what they did.

I wont even talk about after he left Warner because thats rather obvious. No $ to push the music, No albums sold. Look at Mariah and Alisha. You can put the worst song on to wax and through tones of money on marketing and people will buy it.

Is all this good or bad for Prince? Actually, i dont think he should have done it any other way. Except, I do think he needs to circle himself around less safe musicians so that his music will gain a lil more of that edge thats missing badly. I would love for him to spend a couple weekends with Bjork or Thom Yorke and see what kinda wonders would be created.

I think the makority or the 'masses' as you call them, are rather shallow. Prince doesn't write alot of 'bubblegum' songs that can be easily interpreted. I think he lost the huge popularity when he, began to dig deeper, into to more intellectual territory. His songs started requiring deep thought. Personally I think it made some people stray away. Most people I know, just want to 'bob their heads'! Sad but indeed true.
Blue
"The password is,WHAT!"

what music went too deep? SexyMF? I Hate U? Anything from Rave?

I think his music became more simplistic with time...after Lovesexy it was all very "pop". Until TRC, that is... Could you explain more? Im curious...

oh oh oh...btw..my above post should haven ended with a IMHO..cause, i sure the heck aint a prince historian or anything....

geminipaul said:

Well said.

Because anybody that is currently making any noise in the music biz has to play by the rules and make marketable bubblegum music. Prince does neither, thus, he doesn't get played or promoted, and therefore people think he's history. The industry sucks, doesn't it?

Not to say Prince didn't shoot himself in the foot a couple of times (name change, unplayable singles because of risque lyrics- ie. Sexy MF), he didn't cater himself to teeny-boppers with his sexy image- ie.parents wouldn't buy Prince albums for their children....

But Prince has come to a point by his own doing where he is happy with his music, his finances, and how the music is distributed. I applaud him. It took some mistakes, but he has made his way to freedom. And the average Joe doesn't care about that stuff.....

Plus, let's face it, the majority of Prince's music after Purple Rain took repeated listening, getting used to, etc. This is not easy, light pop music here. This is music for people with musical minds. This takes patience. But the rewards for the patience is astounding.

1. Because he's an effeminate male who wore assless pants, lace, ruffles, makeup.....that will turn off alot of people right there.
2. Because of how he responded to most interviewers--his lack of accessibility, rarely answering questions directly, prefering to speak in "riddles" That includes the way he speaks, too--a very quiet, soft voice
3. Because of his outfits--like that thing he wore one year to the Grammy's in the late 80s(I think, help me out here): I think it was blue or purple, and it had sort of a hood, like Obi Wan Kenobi.
4. The name change--that took public perception over the edge and, I think, was the defining moment when true fans/fams stuck with him and the people who needed mainstream icons moved along.

Correction: What made Prince unpopular to the record industry ? Many people out there still like Prince.However when a "new" Prince album is released very few non fams know about it.The record industry has become totally dependant on video and it you don't have the $ to make videos and to promote them on video channels then you are S.O.L.

AnotherLoverHoleinYoHead said:

Well, the top three things you listed were going on during and prior to Prince's highest profile successes in the 80s.

GoldiesParade said:

Totally agree, then he puts slave on his face and gets the worst haircut of his career with weird earring wraparounds. Talk about career suicide.

Also Prince doesn't want to play the business side. Madona and U2 have lasted because they KISS ASS and give the fans what they want., although Madonna's last tour was very short on the old hits, but the incredible stage show made up for it. U2 on the other hand, put out a great album, kiss everbody's ass, do all the interviews and still play every big hit live. I think they manage to keep their credibility with a good mix of old hits and new songs.

Firstly, why does the topic of video and MTV keep raising its head? When we talk about Prince's success, that can be anywhere in the world, yet when many americans join the debate, they say its because he won't play ball with MTV (see above).

The rest of the world in not obsessed with TV, and more songs go to number one on merit, not video or airplay. Please, start thinking outside of the little "usa box".

As for Princes's failure at commercial success. Plain and simple in my eyes. The songs were not commercial enough. the 90s singles began to sound dated, Prince began trying to follow trends rather than set them.

The corporate machine is not to blame. Look at TMBGITW, the biggest hit of the 90s and released on a tiny budget with hardly any backing. It was huge because it was original, a great commercial song.

Couple the weak singles with a man changing his name to something unprenoucable, and you lose a lot of respect.

As for U2, you can't really believe they kiss ass?

They are a great example about what Prince could have become. They have huge commercial success, but still do whatever they want.

When the record company heard their Actung Baby or Zooropa albums they must have thought it was commercial suicide, totally different to their "normal sound".

They gained a whole new audience, sold millions and created a new sound for themselves, not the record company. They also release obscure experimental music (the passengers album anyone?) so they were never about pure commercialism.

We should take our hats off to U2. They are the biggest band in the world, been around for more than 20 years, make the music they want, control their contract and have fun.

I think Bono cares more about third world dept than finding the banished ones!

I think the name change hurt prince a lot.Plus Prince says things that the general public a lot of times does not really understand because he's more intelligent than the general public.He definitely doesnot play by the rules.
He has to deal with the prejudice public with both blacks and whites, (Don't think this doesnot exist because things I have heard from people myself, I know it does) A lot of people hate Prince and they don't even know why.
His music is too good for a lot of people to apprciate.
Just like what was said in a previous post, some people just want to wiggle their heads.
When he made NpS, the first thing I thought of when I heard most of this cd, is He is lowing his standard of talent,trying to sell.
Also, Prince says and does what he wants and stands for what he believes in,and doesn't care what people think.

Another thing I wanted to say, Squirrlmeat was talking about U2, I have never bought any of their albums, because I have never liked what was played on the radio.Plus I might be 100% wrong about that Bono guy, but when I see him talking about something, is he 100% true blue, or is he just trying to sell cds? I have tried to like him, but I just can't.

Squirrelmeat,I love U2 but the success that they are enjoying is because of a huge corporate backing.The rest of your post was on the money.They do play by the "rules".

Prince will become vindicated in the next couple of years in regard to his stance with the industry.Will this translate to mass accecptance? No.
Remember people like Muhammaad Ali & Dr Martin Luther King were all hated by the masses at one time or another.

"The Most Beautiful Girl In The World" sounds original? It's one of the least creative, least original, most rote songs he's ever produced. And because of those reasons it's not at all surprising that it went over big.

YES YES YES!!!!! THAT WOULD BE A DREAM!

SkletonKee said:

vespertine said:

Like many hardcore FUNKATEERS I gave up the ship on Prince because of his indecisiveness surrounding THE BLACK ALBUM and LOVESEXY. Word was TBA was the hardest funk he'd ever recorded and I was all chimed for something hard on the heels of SOTT. Then he comes with LOVESEXY and despite a great leadoff single, that nude cover pic was too much. Just had me saying "TOO GAY! TOO GAY! TOO GAY!"(plus the one track index infuriated me!). From that time onwards I hadn't bought any Prince until CRYSTAL BALL became available. Then I went back and got all the "symbol/slave" stuff (most of which sucked so I didn't feel like I missed anything major).

Prince's music has been stale since the mid 90s because he hasnt pushed himself in any new directions. He's doing safe "prince" music. The refreshing creativity of Rasberry Beret is in a whole different league than "Somebody's Somebody" or "I Rock Therefore I Am". The ambitious sound of his earlier work has evolved into complacent boring stuff like New Power Soul. I mean, listen to even die hard Prince fans, who several years ago were rallying behind some of these albums declaring them masterpieces while everyone else was calling them crap. I see very few fans talking about these albums nowdays because they lost interest in them very quickly.

anything different scares people away. prince was always different. with purple rain, though, he embraced the mainstream culture and gave them the music they wanted to hear. but after that...with somewhat experimental music, the name change, refusal to be an MTV ass-kisser, rebelling against his music company, shyness of the media...repelled those who did not understand or did not want to try to understand. i think most people today will admit that prince is genuinely talented, but they still label him as "weird". even though everyone is weird at heart, this still threatens them and so they won't even try to accept prince. many people i know who hate on prince can't even name 5 songs by him...so they don't even attempt to listen. but who cares, WE love him!!
"do the people even know what they want if they never hear what they need..."
-----
thescandalouslife

Unfocused musical direction coupled with too much product released into the marketplace....tack on no real business or management control for the last 7 years to speak of...add to that a few public relations nightmares...sprinkle with a persona which, when seen without the hit singles and constant MTV rotation, comes off as arrogant, strange, and loopy....burn more than a few bridges in the record and radio industry...and top it off with some rather unispired output and horrid videos for almost 10 years, and you have the recipe for makin' your music irrelevant to the masses...

muleFunk said:

very true. rainbow children has alot of songs that should be tried on radio. aside from the internet, i wouldn't know about this album. i wouldn't really know too much about prince either, because of my age. he definitely has the ability to appeal to people of my generation that are not into mainstream. and he can do this without changing a thing in his music. just make a video or somethin

SkletonKee said:

See I really don't see what it is peolpe claim about Prince being on the edge and deep. Most of his music (ESPECIALLY the 90s output) has always been pop or rock (with some exceptional flashes of R&B)!

Pfunkjazz wrote:
"Then I went back and got all the "symbol/slave" stuff (most of which sucked so I didn't feel like I missed anything major)."
- Really? Ah, but you wrote that you are a funkateer... The ´symbol/slave´ stuff had some of the funkiest stuff he recorded. I agree that it was not innovative, but very funky. Good examples are Billy Jack Bitch, Get wild, Return of the bump squad (specially live versions), Come (album version). Not to mention that the live performances from 94/95 were really funky (at least judging for the bootlegs I heard).