sosgemini said:

but he's jesus, maaaaan! he'd unban himself!

TheMistress said:

some people dont see it that way....there for i got my panties twisted in their honor.....

now, my norma rae moment has come to an end....i wont threadjack any longer..

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Number23 said:

By Muhammed, of course, I mean Mohammed.

Einstein, Picasso, John Lennon, Newton, Jimi, and Prince all made their major contributions to the world at a young age. You don't lose your genuis status just because you haven't topped what came before.

Anyone who's seen him live recently knows he hasn't really lost anything other than some leg strength. Maybe we've just caught up a bit as listeners. Listening's a lot easier than creating.

Musicians go through phases and some phases last a bit longer than others. When he gets bored with the religion thing, he's gonna put out a really kickass album. It doesn't matter to me if he is a genius or isn't, but I must admit he hasn't really done it for me since the Gold album, but I still support him. You make a good album, I'll buy it, if not, I won't, it's as simple as that.

LQ

andyman91 said:

And you just gave me a new signature, my friend.

LadyQ said:

WHY are people still stuck on this premise?

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Maybe some people have spiritual hangups of their own.

Again you make my point unwittingly, the fact that Prince hasn't topped what has gone before precludes him being a Genius. He may be brilliant but Genius - NO

devilstwin said:

Sorry if I disturb the positive vibe of this thread, but I'd like to add some aspects to the original topic.

1) Just a detail, but he released Batman first, then GB

2) The description of Batman as a "rocky" Lovesexy absolutely misses the point imo. The production on Batman is much "thinner" on most of the songs. Lovesexy was a spiritual album, Batman was a project he did for a movie as a soundtrack, meaning that he delivered songs, not a whole project he was able to design from the very beginning (doesn't disturb me - I like the record).

3) Your Einstein comparison is weak. Einstein published the Special Theory of Relativity as a young man and the General Theory about ten years later. He also made huge contribution to physics with his theory on the photoeffect. He hasn't published any significant theory after about 1924 I think, meaning that he did not push science really further for the last 30 years of his life. He also went wrong with his statements on Quantum Mechanics (he disliked the theory). So, according to your own logic, you'd have to say "Einstein lost his right to be called a genius 'cause he lost his way some time". Do you really mean that seriously?

4) I don't want to argue about the music Prince released after Lovesexy, I think that most of it is absolutely brilliant (I became a fan due to D&P and ), you obviously don't. Even if we accept your opinion on this music, it does not mean that we can come to the conclusion "Prince is not a genius", because we'll never know what comes next. Beethoven for example had a period of reduced productivity (in the 1810's) after a period of extreme productivity and influential music (the 1800's). And what happened? He wrote the 9th symphony (1823)!!! And his late string quartets (1820's) were so experimental, they were 80-100 years ahead of their time! Maybe Prince will release an album in, let's say, 2015, which will let Purple Rain, SOTT etc. be seen as the work of a late high school kid so brilliant and fresh. Do we know???

5) In your other statements, you refer to the view of people and critics as a tool to judge if someone is a genius. That really doesn't work! If it did, then almost no one seen as a genius today would deserve that title. In most cases, people didn't really appreciate the talent of a genius during his lifetime, and critics? Well, the daily weather forecast seems to be a sure thing compared to the judgement of a critic. If we started a thread about critics judging wrong (all over the history of music and art), we would fill the complete webspace of prince.org within a few days!

Nevertheless, enjoy your time he. And now back to the exclusive prince.org moderators celebrity deathmatch...
[Edited 2/24/05 14:30pm]

devilstwin said:

You're still basing your point on something that is 100% subjective.
It's not an argument you can win or lose (although you may go home with scratch marks from rabid fanboys and gals).

devilstwin said:

Pretty much agree with this...
But see how many people will call him a genius when he dies, not to talk about the idiots who'll become fans and claim they were a fan since day 1...

Neversin.

How you feel about Prince's music (if he's a genius anymore, etc.) says a lot more about your taste than it does Prince's ability or creativity.


Regardless of what you may think, there is a shitload of people who think a song like "Call my name" IS the work of Genius. Just because it ain't your cup of tea doesn't lessen the greatness of Prince's current output. We've come along far enough in Prince's career now-where it is undisputable that he is one of the all time greats. Even the general public/media is finally "getting it." So if you don't like Prince since 198whatever that's fine---and you should feel free to say so. But, understand that right now (especially at this website) you are one of the few and a lot of people may not agree with you.
[Edited 2/24/05 14:23pm]

Does genius mean having to stay "genius" for the duration of your life? As others have noted above, those you cite as geniuses didn't make amazing contributions throughout their entire lifespan, or they died so early on they never had a chance to be seen as 'failures.' Prince's extended genius period may have lasted only 8 years by the strictest standards ('80-'88), but look: He released EIGHT albums of incredible material in that period. That kind of sustained productivity, and the undeniable influence it had at the time (which resonates very strongly today), can't be denied. Stevie Wonder hasn't released an album in a solid decade. His true "genius" period ended anywhere from 20-25 years ago. But there's just no denying Stevie was (and still is, I think) a genius.

Was Lennon a musical genius? He stopped recording for five years, then came back with 'Double Fantasy.' And most of the reason that album is considered classic is because he died the week after it came out. So what makes him a genius as opposed to merely brilliant? You've tried differentiating between 'genius' and 'brilliant,' Devilstwin. I think of it like this: Paul McCartney is brilliant, an amazing songwriter. But not a genius. Lennon (and maybe even George Harrison) was a genius. He had the capabilities of the brilliant songwriter but the daring innovation of a genius. I think the same of Prince. Maybe he's coasted by the last couple of years merely being brilliant, but it doesn't change the fact, for me anyway, that he is a genius. Maybe he's a lazy genius, but a genius nonetheless. Listen to those 80-88 albums again. However watered-down you might find Batman or anything after it, it doesn't change the fact those those are brilliant albums by a musical genius. Don't hold the fact that he didn't die in 1988 against him. His work speaks for itself.

Neversin said:

Those would be the same bandwagon jumpers that made up the vast majority of the crowd on the tour in 2004. I bet they'll leave this year. It'll be like 1985 all over again.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

////

In answer the original post - Prince will never lose the right to be called a genius.

Whatever we think of his current work, 90s work, or possible future work - the stuff he put out in the 80s has earned him that title forever.

Even if he never released a decent record again, he would still be an obscenely talented musician, who's past body of work stands as a testament forever to his legacy as a true master in his field.

I don't like Musicology, I don't Rave, the stuff he put out lately doesn't even hold a candle to his past stuff, but give the guy his dues.


» MetroArea
[Edited 2/24/05 14:28pm]

renfield said:

Did you see Prince live this year???? Genius-it's that simple.

MetroArea said:

you might well be right but

skywalker said:

Yeah I saw him live. Amazing. Why do you ask? 'Cause I've never doubted, since I got hooked in '83, that Prince is a genius. My response was in support of Prince...

1) OK fine

2)Yes Batman is "thinner" - less is going on - it is more throw away less inspired and "creative" - but has more edge
3) Einstein COMPLETELY CHANGED how people thought about physic - physic was never the same EVER again. Prince cannot claim the same for music. (also see your remark about Beethoven
4)Prince may that is true but we have to deal with the story so far
5)Many Geniuses completely broke the mold - hence weren't apreciated in their lifetime. Prince has not done this, his music crosses genres true but does not reinvent them.

Marrk said:

Awww, man! I can't win! One minute I'm a naysayer, the next a fam!

devilstwin said:

the beatles are often considered genius, but without R&B and the skiffle music they were influenced by, where would they have gotten? without brian wilson and 'smile', would there have been a 'sgt. pepper'?

yet, the beatles have launched countless imitators over the last forty or so years.

i'd say prince has had a fair fraction of that kind of influence on other artists. for every review of a TTD or lenny kravitz album you can find that doesn't mention prince, i can find you ten that do. and let's talk about all the songs and artists who have been influenced by his work, from RFTW to boy george's early solo stuff to duran duran's wedding album to beck's midnite vultures and and and....

of course, without james and sly and jimi and carlos and joni and all his other influences, who knows what prince would have become, if anything. but when you read about a band or an album being influenced by prince, you don't hear "lenny kravitz is plugging into a prince vibe, by way of prince's joni mitchell influences." naw. it's a constant process of recycling and interpreting influences - some artists are deft at wearing their influences well, and some are daft and wear their influences on their sleeves (and a lot of in-between).

prince is a genius. musically he's a genius, and in the way he's carried out his career and his persona, he's a genius. sometimes he's a monumental ass in the choices he makes or the way he behaves, but that's the downside of taking risks. sometimes doing something differently isn't a popular thing to do.

last year, prince proved that he could manipulate his way to the top of the pop charts, which had previously been something only major record labels could do. i think that is all kinds of freakin' genius.

I just came to give Anxiety a kiss.

renfield said:

I know I am just agreeing with you. Genius.

klhk said:

awwww....you're just saying that because i said "ass" in my last post.

Prince, to be sure, has influenced other artists that can't be disputed and half the time he isn't given enough credit for this.
However the Beatles pretty much created a sound that still echoes in almost all rock music today. You can't compare that influence with Prince's achievements. I think Prince is brilliant but he won't be remembered for permeating a sound that will echo down the years

devilstwin said:

we're only talking pop music here, but listen to the RADIO man... the EFFECT that Prince has had on the MUSIC SCENE is pervasive. The things that he was doing twenty years ago are still fresh and relevant. I dunno what you'd call GENIUS, but whatever it means to you he must be closer to it than you are! Like somebody said you qualify for S*****D!

devilstwin said:

i disagree.

the beatles' sound, however distinctive it was, was dependant on their influences - on rockabilly, on little richard, on eastern music, on the beach boys, and so on. without those influences, there would be no "beatles sound" as we know it. they did not create their sound in a vacuum.

same with prince. there is a style of music that will make someone say "hey, that sounds like prince." go through a stack of reviews from any music magazine - you'll see prince cited as an influence in countless write-ups. it's as ubiquitous as calling a song or record "beatle-esque" or "dylan-esque".

and the older prince's classics become, the more people will continue to imitate them.

Prince is a Genius.


gen·ius
n. pl. gen·ius·es

1.

Extraordinary intellectual and creative power.
A person of extraordinary intellect and talent.

2.

A strong natural talent, aptitude, or inclination: has a genius for choosing the right words.
One who has such a talent or inclination: a genius at diplomacy.