The ONLY "spritual" peak was Lovesexy.There is nothing "spiritual" about TRC

JediMaster said:

So you're saying from cancelation of Black in Dec. til that spring isn't rushing an album out, Jedi?? And what exactly do U use for your info gathering. You're off the mark on more than a few occasions.

The ONLY "spritual" peak was Lovesexy.There is nothing "spiritual" about TRC

Heiress said:

True. I also think it has alot to do with Prince letting the music "do the talking for him", for so many years, regarding his spiritual views. Now, Maddy's doing the same thing, but back in the day she really didn't get quite so deep into it.

JediMaster said:

Mads has always had a very spiritual side... the first part of her carear she spent most of the time escaping the strangle hold the Catholic Church has on its follows when it comes to sex. it wasn't until she was able to find a way to break free of the Catholic view of sex that she was able to start showing her progess in the spiritual relm.


From the Like a Prayer video to Blonde Ambition to The Beast Within and on you can see the evolution of the spirtuality.

Wow, this is probably the most enlightening thread I've read in ages.
Thanx for your insights JediMaster and Heiress. Copying and printing this thread for future reference. It's amazing how examining the spiritual & sexual journey of one person can prove to be so thought-provoking.

Keep up with your reviews JediMaster, and when you finish your report Heiress, email me.

67TBirdHeartAttack said:

That's certainly an opinion I can't agree with. He's had spiritual material on most of his post Dirty Mind albums. TRC is chocked-full of references to God, Christ, Satan etc. Maybe you don't agree with the spirituality presented, but that doesn't make it any less so.

67TBirdHeartAttack said:

Your ears are broke.

I think it's easy to get hung-up on the idea of "religion vs. spirituality..."

That sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. I guess my ears are broke too, cause I can tell a HUGE difference between the 2 albums.

[Lovesexy is spiritual and TRC is not, plain and simple.

Heiress said:

Those of us in the know... know the difference.

First off, let's not get into a debate of Spirituality vs. Religion. I agree there is a difference, but that really isn't the point of this whole thread. TRC may be more closely tied to a religious dogma, but it doesn't 100% conform to the JW doctrines (the "Akashic Record" is not from the JW faith at all, and is more in line with Prince's former new-agey beliefs). There is spirituality on TRC, as well as religion. I think "Everywhere" is an incredibly spiritual track, that isn't bound up in JW idealogy at all. In fact, that track is pretty much generically Christian. Now, "The Work", on the other hand, is much more JW dogmatic. Lovesexy, I would argue, is more from a spiritual viewpoint, and TRC more religious, but its really splitting hairs. I think even those who are not JWs (myself included) find a spiritual connection to SOME of the stuff on TRC.

That sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. I guess my ears are broke too, cause I can tell a HUGE difference between the 2 albums.

Lovesexy is spiritual and TRC is not, plain and simple.

And I can likewise say that as a Jehovah's Witness, some of Prince's previous work, which employed terms like heaven & hell, etc, did not jive with my spiritual beliefs & knowledge of the Bible... But "big whoop!"

Then you know that TRC is simply an advancement musically and thematically.
Yeah, yeah, I know. Love the old, diss the new. Typical.

In your opinion. Saying TRC is not spiritual does not make it so.
Lovesexy could easily be considered a "religious" album based on references to God, the devil, heaven & hell. TRC contains expressions of Prince's specific beliefs, therefore it does not "tickle the ears" of the masses, telling them what they want to hear. It's understandable why folks' feathers get ruffled. That doesn't mean that it's not spiritual though.

Those of us "in the know" realize that religion and spirituality co-exist if accurate knowledge is applied.

OdysseyMiles said:

I'm not trying to diss the new. TRC is a great album, until the "specific beliefs" that "don't tickle the ears of the masses," start up. There are certain lyrics that get my spirit of discernement kicking in.

Prince has specific beliefs just like you do. The problem is when people look to Prince as a spiritual or moral compass. If we didn't do that, there would be no reason to take offense.
My spirit of discernment kicked in when Prince said "I know there is a heaven and a hell" (because I know there is no burning place of torment), but I wasn't offended by it. Like Heiress said, "big whoop!"

OdysseyMiles said:

I've always known this, and never looked at Prince as a spiritual compass.

It was just cool to know, that he knew what I knew, and I knew what he knew... that's all.

He ain't down no more.

That's not to say he's wrong and I'm right, or vice versa... we just ain't on the same page as we once were. Like you guys are saying... "big whoop!"

First off, let's not get into a debate of Spirituality vs. Religion. I agree there is a difference, but that really isn't the point of this whole thread. TRC may be more closely tied to a religious dogma, but it doesn't 100% conform to the JW doctrines (the "Akashic Record" is not from the JW faith at all, and is more in line with Prince's former new-agey beliefs). There is spirituality on TRC, as well as religion. I think "Everywhere" is an incredibly spiritual track, that isn't bound up in JW idealogy at all. In fact, that track is pretty much generically Christian. Now, "The Work", on the other hand, is much more JW dogmatic. Lovesexy, I would argue, is more from a spiritual viewpoint, and TRC more religious, but its really splitting hairs. I think even those who are not JWs (myself included) find a spiritual connection to SOME of the stuff on TRC.

That sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. I guess my ears are broke too, cause I can tell a HUGE difference between the 2 albums.

Lovesexy is spiritual and TRC is not, plain and simple.

I disagree with you as far as track "Everywhere" goes. I really don't find it to be a generically christian song. He has lines like "We were always ment to be in paradise eternally" which is certainly a JW belief. Tho its a short song he is displaying his new found faith in it.

Soulchild82 said:

I see your point, and I'm sure the inspiration was his newfound faith. However, I feel that many of the lines in it could be construed as generically Christian in the regard of someone feeling they have "seen the light". As for the line about "paradise eternally", it could also be Heaven that is referred to here. I realise that's not the case, but it isn't so set in stone that a non-JW couldn't get a different meaning from it.

Point taken. I see where most would assume the paradise referred to is Heaven; when in actuallity it is a combination of a physical (earthly) paradise. and a Spiritual paradise with those in the physical paradise worshiping together in unity.

The end of 1992 saw the release of , an album distinctive for the unpronounceable symbol as its title. Prince had used variations of this symbol, a combination of the male and female glyphs, for years (it made its first appearance on the album cover to 1999, although some of his friends from high school claim he was doodling versions of it back then). For this release, Prince had added a new bit to the design: the alchemical symbol for soapstone. While he has never actually explained the meaning of his glyph, it has been widely thought of as the “love symbol” (some have argued that it represents his androgyny. Personally, I think it’s a bit of both). More about that later.

The album is a loosely constructed concept album, telling the story of Prince and his new paramour, “Princess” Mayte. During the “Diamonds & Pearls” tour in the early part of the year, Prince had added dancer Mayte Garcia to his entourage, and he became quite obsessed with her. He created the tale of their courtship in album form, recasting her as an Egyptian Princess (in reality, she was a Puerto Rican belly dancer). Obviously, the disc was intended to be a fictitious representation of the story, and in reality its probably only meant to further the myth of Prince.

The album begins with the track “My Name Is Prince” (we would later find out that this was actually quite ironic). Prince declares that, on the Seventh Day of Creation (when the Bible declares God rested) he was created by the almighty upon hearing a guitar “cold getting down”. Here, Prince himself is recast as a sort of demi-god, come to earth to teach us the error of our ways. “I’ve got 2 sides” he exclaims, “and they're both friends”. Again, we have the duality theme, this time ambiguous as to what “sides” he means. Male & Female? Sexual & Spiritual? Possibly all of that and more. This yin and yang dichotomy is explored several times throughout the album, with Prince at one point stating he’s “man enough 2 say he’s 50/50 girl”.

It is quite possible that the meaning of the album title can be found in the track “…And God Created Woman”. The song references the creation story of Genesis, where Eve is created out of Adam (of course, here it is Prince who has Mayte pulled out of him). Through sexual intercourse, Adam is made whole with his soul mate once again, both physically and spiritually. This “fusion” of the male and female could be exactly what the is actually all about. By finding his “soul mate”, Prince has been made whole. While Prince would not marry Mayte for several more years, and he would continue to date other women until then, it was seems that he thought he had found the one for him. In fact, he believed it to be divinely inspired.

The albums most spiritual moment comes with the track “7”, a tune that references the apocalyptic Book Of Revelation from the New Testament (in fact, some of the lyrics are directly from the scripture. Once again, Prince ties his spiritual battle into his own personal myth. He and Mayte face the evil forces of the world, but he tells her to have faith, for one day those forces will fall. It’s interesting to note that, in the video for this song, Prince destroys seven images of himself, as if purging himself of the seven deadly sins. Like Lovesexy, this represents a transformation and attempt to escape his past. The album’s closer, “The Sacrifice Of Victor” casts Prince in his very own Biblical book, as the character of “Victor”. The song tells an autobiographical tale of Prince’s childhood, and how, with God’s help, he will one day be a victor.

On Prince’s 35th Birthday, the following June, he announced to the world that he would be changing his very name to . No explanation was given, other than his spirit told him to do it. In retrospect, it seems as if the album was setting the stage for this all along. The opening track that declared his name to be Prince could be seen as establishing the character of his story that would later “die”. While this is all metaphoric, Prince took it quite seriously.

To this day, Prince has never given a complete explanation for his name change. He has given bits and pieces, but never an in-depth reason. One tidbit he dropped in 2000 (when he changed his name back) was that it was to separate him from contractual obligations. Personally, I theorize that it was much more. Repeatedly, he stated that he did it for “spiritual reasons”, and I believe that the clues can be found on the album. He felt he had found the mate who would “complete” him, coinciding with a time that he was growing increasingly frustrated with Warner Bros. Records and the way they were handling the distribution of his material. I think he decided to change his name, so he could record outside of his contract (which wasn’t exactly legal, but perhaps he thought he could get away with it). It certainly wasn’t the first time Prince had used a pseudonym in his career, and it had hid his involvement on projects before. By changing his name, he reasoned he could give vault material to WB under his former moniker, while recording what he wanted on his own under the new name. Another element that may have played into the decision was his resentment over WB actually having ownership in the name “Prince” through his publishing. Having decided he was now “whole” with Mayte, he used a new version of his trademark symbol that most fans already associated with him, a symbol that represents his newfound completion, as well as his androgynous duality. Of course, in order to convey that, it had to be in the form of dramatic song. The story of finding a new love and having a contractual dispute becomes a mythic battle of the hero and heroine fighting against the forces of evil. Classic Romantic fiction, really.

One other point that must be touched on here is the use of the alchemical soapstone symbol. Alchemy, the medieval practice of trying to transmute lead and other metals into gold, was once thought of as a science. In fact, it wasn’t until the Catholic Church declared it heretical that it became thought of as an “occult” practice. Soapstone was considered a key ingredient to this process. Prince’s inclusion of this symbol into his own personal design can be seen as a metaphor for transformation once again. He is “transmuting” into something new. There certainly were plenty of references to gold throughout this time period (and it would only increase with the recording of The Gold Experience later on). Gold chains and set pieces filled his videos, concerts and promo pictures. Becoming something “golden” in this case, can be seen as metaphoric of becoming something shining and precious in a spiritual sense. Its also interesting to note that Prince’s spiritual beliefs were starting to broaden at this point. While still Christian based, he was beginning to have more New Age style ideas creep in, such as reincarnation (he tells the Kirstie Allie character that he is into his “mid-soul”, so he is actually 320).

JediMaster said:

Thanks Jedi, your statement on made me listen to it again. I must say that I came to the conclusion that this record is some kind of concept album (at least half-way), and in the end it really reminded me of "Lovesexy". Maybe I can add one or two aspects to your thoughts.

1) From "My name is Prince" to "Damn U", the record mainly is a classic Prince love-sex record (lyrically) with a few exceptions (the hookline from "7" which is found in "The max" or "I wanna melt..." [sorry, can't remember right now] is a hint on what's gonna come - also, the view on the relationship with a woman changes - "...it's u I wanna do, no, not ur body, ur mind, u fool" in "Sexy MF" - also a hint on the later transformation, see below). The lyrics are really explicit sometimes ("Blue light").

2) "Arrogance" and "The flow" are the turning point (with their special role indicated by the fact that they miss a regular song structure, maybe)

3) From "7" to the end, the record is a spiritual one

4) This "transformation" (connection to the soapstone symbol!) is also indicated by the direction the interview (segue) takes (pretty unexpected)

5) Not musically, but visually (back cover), Prince includes the pyramide in his mythology for the first time (pyramide - Egypt - early civilization - origin of monotheism - African continent as possible origin of mankind - anything you like to add). He also did that on "Emancipation" with its pyramide-like symmetry (he once mentioned that in an interview, I'm sure you intend to mention it later on, Jedi)

6) In an early interview after the name change, Prince explained that the name "Prince" just stood for sex at some point, and that this fact had bored him - fits the "transformation" idea

Overall and as a result of your statement, Jedi, I think that the translation of as "Love Symbol" is wrong, and we just should speak of "The Symbol" or "Spiritual Symbol"

EmancipationLover said:

VERY good observations, especially about the structure of the album! Makes total sense, and definitely reinforces the transformation theme. I remember when the album came out, some folks thought it should have ended with "7", but that would have really undercut the point!

After much back-and-forth with WB, Come was finally released in late 1994. Originally, the songs were to be credited to , but were ultimately billed as Prince songs with the tag “1958-1993” added. Prince was “dead”, and this album was his epitaph. The original version of the title track (which was not used on the album) began with the line “this is the dawning of a new spiritual revolution” (these lyrics were reprinted in the liner notes, despite their omission from the actual song). The albums real thematic centerpieces are “Solo”, where he declares himself to be so low that his name is “no one” (a possible allusion to his name having no pronunciation), and “Letitgo”. The latter track sums up the whole point that he is letting go of his past and moving on. He also, in true prophet mode, declares he has an army “three million strong”, no doubt referring to his fans.

RE the videos from O)+>...

Have you all noticed the prominence and glitter of gold throughout?

And something for EmancipationLover...

RE the pyramid symbolism - Charles Taze Russell, one of the early leaders of the International Bible Students (who later became Jehovah's Witnesses) also had something of a pyramid fixation, which I've never quite understood. I'll have to do some looking into this. It might be quite similar to what Prince is referring to.

Heiress said:

Didn't the whole 1914 date that's so important in JW doctrine come from Russell's calculations he based off of measurements of a pyramid? I'm not sure I'm getting this right, but I seem to remember their being something tied into the pyramid with this.