He was not or never had been in favor
of setting r people free



if it wasn't 4 the 13th Amendment
we woulda been born in slavery



He was not or never had been in favor
of letting us vote so u c...



Abraham Lincoln was a racist who said
"U cannot escape from history"



Like the snow comin' down the mountain
that landed on Wounded Knee



nobody wants 2 take the weight -
the responsibility



Hear the joyous sound of freedom
The Harlem Renaissance



Hear Duke Ellington and his band
kick another jungle jam
Ooh, do u wanna dance?



Who's that lurking in the shadows?
Mr. John Hammond with his pen in hand...



sayin' "Sign ur kingdom over 2 me
and b known throughout the land!"



But, u ain't got no money, U ain't got no cash
So u sign yo name and he claims innocence
just like every snowflake in an avalanche...



Like the snow comin' down the mountain
that landed on Wounded Knee



nobody wants 2 take the weight -
the responsibility

IstenSzek said some really beautiful, insightful things about this song in a thread about 2 or 3 weeks ago...I don't know how to search on here, so I apologize for not posting a link, but it's here somewhere.

I added my .92 cents as well - LOOOOOVE this fucking song!!

eh.

Bless you, BinaryJustin, for posting this. It's awesome.
Prince's performance of this song during the ONA Live tour in Buffalo was one of the most strikingly awesome moments I've witnessed at a concert.
This slide show captures it and brings it home. More than a song. A statement.
Peace

Beautiful!

This one is definitely in my top 5 of Prince's most emotive performances.

Beautiful song, amazing vocal...

I love the version of the ONA Chicago boot, great song!

psykosoul said:

Y
E
S

+ YES

Y
E
S

CalhounSq said:

Indeed. "and he's saying sign your kingdom over to me, yeah"


SOUL

"....and be known throughout the land, oh but you ain't got no money
and you ain't got no cash
so you sign yer name, and he claims innocence
just like every snowflake in an avalanche"

Sorry, I couldn't help it. I agree with you that the vocal delivery is fucking fantastic on this song. Literally gives me the chills still every time I hear that part. And I'm a callous motherfucker!

theblueangel said:

This is the Prince song, isn't it? Fuck 'Kiss', fuck 'Cream'. This is the one which moves me.

p.s. I chose the fuzziest "lynching" picture I could find but I know it's still awful.

I know that Europe was complicit in stealing babies from Africa: England, Spain and Holland...

But we fixed it, we really did see the folly of our actions so much sooner than the U.S.

It worries me that there was still enforced segregation in U.S. schools and colleges in my lifetime and I'm only young.

I have no idea why there has never been a revolution in the U.S.

It's bizarre... There was still segregation in the 70s and nobody talks about it.

Every person of color, or can trace their tree back to a color, should sue.

this lyrically is the most misguided song Prince has ever done. The problem Lincoln faced, which has been distorted or ignored by some, is that he had to end slavery in a way that would not be reversed by the supreme court.



http://jala.press.uiuc.ed...anger.html

Prince says



Do you realize that Lincoln wrote the 13th amendment and was the person who got it through congress. That was how he got past the supreme court problem - he had to amend the constitution.
[Edited 10/31/04 17:44pm]

alandail said:

i agree. prince obviously wasn't paying attention in history class.

i don't like this song and i don't like the other 'fuck white man' songs prince has been doing in the last few years. he seems so angry these days, like his fury with warner brothers has flamed out of control and eaten up his heart or something and now he blames all white people for the loss of his masters.

coolest song in a long long time.

one of Prince's top 10 post 80's.

this song is probably the most
underrated cut from the last
decade anyway.

It's simply amazing in every
single way!

IstenSzek said:

except for historical accuracy. See my post above. Do you, or anyone else, come away from that song realizing that Lincoln wrote the 13th amendment and that he is the only reason it got through congress?

I don't think anyone is arguing that Lincoln was the one who got the 13th Amendment through Congress...I think Prince's point is that he didn't necessarily do it primarily for humanitarian reasons. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that while Lincoln did in fact advocate the freeing of slaves, he didn't exactly regard whites and blacks in the same category. In other words, he was a racist. Seems pretty simple to me, but what do I know?

theblueangel said:

The lyrics say



How does anyone who hears those lyrics understand that Lincoln wrote the 13th amendment? The lyrics couldn't be more misleading.

And does anyone realize Lincoln said

BinaryJustin said:

i feel ya! you must have been even more horrified when you realized that black people are still enslaving black people in africa.
[Edited 11/1/04 6:39am]

alandail said:

You're forgetting that Prince is an artist. It's not his job to give a history lesson. He was commenting on Lincoln's intentions. His heart condition, if you will. You say he got the 13th Amendment through Congress. If he did it for political reasons then what does that say about his character? What does that say about his true feelings on the matter? Prince is not misguided simply because he chooses to comment about these things. Rather, it shows a desire to be accurate instead of patting Lincoln on the back based on surface info provided in U.S. history books.

BinaryJustin said:

Oh yeah, sure. "European" hand are so clean with respect to early-20th century Africa, the Middle East, SE Asia, etc.

The truth is that European dreams of colonies and empire for cheap labor and raw materials only died after WWII.

OdysseyMiles said:

He didn't get it through for political reasons - he got it through because those were his beliefs - it hurt him politically to take the stand he did.

OdysseyMiles said:

lincoln's 'heart condition' was more than adequately demonstrated by what he did. you obviously don't wish to admit it but lincoln was the champion of the anti-slavery movement. he DIED FOR the abolitionist cause. do you truly not see this? why would you stab the one man who helped black people in the back? is that the way it is?

and although it's not prince's job to give a 'history lesson', if he wants to talk about a sensitive subject like this, miles, he better get his facts straight cause when he writes songs like this he looks like a bona fide racist, pig headed idiot imo

used to be, not so long ago, there was a time in my life i couldn't say enough good things about prince. i defended him on every point.

THEN came TRC with its scathing references in family name to men bearing the names of warner brother executives combined in a panorama of racist commentary with religious weirdness and i realized just how much anger he was carrying around inside of him.

i realized that prince has at his core, a burning hatred against white people. he can't help it and i guess at the end of the day i don't blame him for feeling this way. slavery sucked, it was evil. no one alive today would contradict this. prince no doubt felt he was a 'slave' to warner brothers (no matter how silly that is) and having lost the WB battle he's even angrier now

and the fact is that prince and his music have changed significantly in recent years because of this anger. he used to give us a positive message, hopeful suggestions for how to heal the wound left by slavery. now it's like his hatred has consumed him so far that he's striking out even at totally inappropriate targets - like lincoln. i think it's partly due to what happened with warner brothers and partly because he's older and has lost hope. whatever the reason i no longer trust his message, personally

there's a better way to make the point he's trying to go with than to attack abraham lincoln, THE abolitionist who made the difference and helped eradicate slavery
[Edited 11/1/04 9:17am]

Lincoln might have been a racist, but only he knew for sure.

What we do know about him are his actions, like the 13th amendment.

I am probably the only person who can't stand that song.

love the song

XxAxX said:

You're right in the sense that's it's only your opinion. Many people need to get their facts straight. Lincoln said:"I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is a physical difference between the two, which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality; and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I ... am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position."

Lincoln also said:"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could do it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that.."

His intentions of fighting the South did NOT lie with abolishing slavery, but to save the Union. Even though Lincoln died in April of 1865, the 13th Amendment which abolished slavery was not instituted until eight months later, nearly three years from his "slave freeing" Emancipation Proclamation.
I'm not saying Lincoln was a terrible person, and I don't think Prince is either. He's pointing out the fact that if a man sees one race as superior to another then that's a racist mentality. It's not about attacking white people, it's about approaching the subject accurately.




Of course you did. It was probably convenient for you to do so. Do you defend his right to go door to door? Yeah, I bet that's a different story .



AGAIN with the misconstrued interpretations. There isn't anything remotely racist about the song "Family Name". Only those who wish to ignore the heart of the subject seem to be offended by it and take it personally. It ain't about YOU. Don't worry hon, nobody's gonna come knockin', looking for slavery reparations. The dude was only making a statement about the loss of family history that many people in this country have suffered. No more, no less. I don't understand why a few folks around here are so offended by that. Unless you were there with a whip in your hand, I don't see what you have to be offended by!



Wow, there aren't enough hours in the day for me to address the sad and glaring generalizations in your post. To say that Prince has a burning hatred for white people just comes off as...well, ignorant. The man himself has at least some white ancestry, as many of us who are of mixed heritage do. In addition, he's always associated and worked with people of many nationalities. Again, you're taking things personally when it's not even about you. If Prince hated white people so much, he wouldn't sit up there and play guitar with Wendy on Tavis' show, or let Candy do her thing up on stage. Really, where do you get these ideas?
As far as Princes' situation with Warner Bros, we can laugh all we want, and call him every name in the book, but we aren't the ones who went through it. HE was. It wasn't our music or our career, it was HIS. It's so easy to fold our arms and stand back while judging someone else's situation. We don't even realize the mistake we're making when we do this. Seriously XxAxX, for someone who frequents this site as much as you do, based on some of the things you say - sometimes it sounds like you don't know the first thing about Prince .
[Edited 11/1/04 10:54am]

you're generalizing at least as much as you accuse me of generalizing. so where does that leave us?


with differing opinions.

but wait, among the various erroneous assumptions you made about me there's one i challenge: i do NOT support anyone's 'right' to go door to door. in fact, as i've said many times, that is not a 'right'.

i believe this so strongly that when asked i refused to telemarket or knock on doors to support john kerry's campaign, even though i'd give my life to see him win this election.