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Printablewellbeyond said: IrishEcho said: Oh, the truth about TRC. A lot of you forget how much you praised Rave when that first came out...and now look at how many of you loathe it...that reaction is the same for a lot of Prince's music, maybe even TRC.
Actually, I had gone back when the old P.org was still up, and checked on what everyone was saying about "Rave Un2" when it came out...and the reaction was nothing like the praise heaped on TRC...in fact, a lot of posters at the time were saying while it was miles better than NPS, it was still disappointing...and 4 months after it's release, there were not very many people on P.org raving about how great it was...certain songs from the CD, yes...the CD itself, no... Praise is praise. And as a matter of fact I recall several people being enthusiasic about the album as a whole. If you have that much time to devote to a complete non-issue, more power to you. | |
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I'll 'Tell the Truth' - I never listen to it. And that disapoints me cause everyother Prince album up to this point was something I played to death. I'm sorry, I'd just be forcing it to listen to it. I even tried to put a copy in the car, and it still doesn't work. If it hadn't been for the new material on NPGMC I would've given up on him based on that album. I'm happy some of you can still carry on the delusion.
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TRC: I just love that album! It is top 5 material for me and certainly the best album since Lovesexy.
1) The narrator voice is annoying, it distracts from the music, although I'm used to it now and don't hear it anymore. But the album would definately be better and more accessible without it. 2) 1+1+1=3 is overhyped, I agree. It's a nice little funky track, but nothing special to me. 3) I agree with you again, but I would leave out Last December, it has too many corny elements. "It is his best album in terms of gelling together": I totally agree with that, it's his most coherent album. Really, I love the album, each track is great IMO, except last December and Wedding Feast, although the latter is just a funny little joke IMO. This album is the reward for sticking with Prince througgh the years, I knew one day he would make very interesting music again. I'm really looking forward for the Xenophobia and ONA albums, I think these will be great, from what I've heard untill now. I managed to get the "ONA in Chicago" bootleg from the Internet and I love Xenophobia and Avalanche. Very promising! RIP Prince: thank U 4 a funky Time... |
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IrishEcho said: Praise is praise. And as a matter of fact I recall several people being enthusiasic about the album as a whole.
Oh yeah, that makes sense...lol...saying "'eh, it's good, I guess" is every bit the same as saying "WOW...This is the best music he's made in over 10 years!!"...lol...you remember the phrase "praise is praise" when your lover tells you that you are "eh, better than my last lover, anyway...he sucked in bed"...I'm sure you'll be finding the shades of difference between praises in that scenario... 
If you have that much time to devote to a complete non-issue, more power to you.
LoL...you brought it up as a topic...which means you made it an issue by bringing it up...lol...if it's a non-issue, then why mention it in the first place??... Sheesh, they really do need to offer Debate 101 around this place... | |
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I totally agree about the voice on TRC. I can deal with it a little bit now because I've read the words and know what is being said. Before that it was just some indistinguishable annoyance that gave me a horrible feeling for the rest of the album.
I don't have much of a problem with 1+1+1 is 3 because I've seen it live and it was great. Seeing a song live tends to make it better on the album for me. I just told someone that the last 4 songs on TRC could be one of the best ends of an album ever. It reminds me of the last 4 on Purple Rain. MJ's Invincible is very slick but it is so true that there is no feeling in it. Give me Off The Wall anyday! See you in NYC on Tuesday! | |
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Cornerman said: I'll 'Tell the Truth' - I never listen to it. And that disapoints me cause everyother Prince album up to this point was something I played to death. I'm sorry, I'd just be forcing it to listen to it. I even tried to put a copy in the car, and it still doesn't work. If it hadn't been for the new material on NPGMC I would've given up on him based on that album. I'm happy some of you can still carry on the delusion.
... Does it make you feel better because YOU deem it a "delusion" for others to like a particular album? Sad. This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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IrishEcho said: Well, that's "to you." Then again, if that's the case, why be at all impressed with Prince's jazz work on TRC, if that's the stuff that happens to be turning your crank on that particular CD? Many jazz artists have done it before and done it better.
Geez, do you even READ what I write??..lol..My entire argument is that Prince does NOT have to be "innovative" to be praised!!...lol...All you did right here is back up what I said, that I don't think TRC is praiseworthy cuz of innovation, but simply because of passion, musicianship, and that he pushes himself... Oh right. Wow, one song. We can also cite the Arabic influence in Prince's "The One," or TGRES, if that was actually my point. A shame it wasn't anything other than a single example. Point was, he got it on the radio, against what everyone else was telling him. One of the marks of an innovator is to gain popular appeal with experimentation. We could also talk about Sting's use of jazz, bossa nova, Memphis horns, classical, Eastern-European & other sounds in his music, which has changed considerably from his punk days. And as a matter of fact it is an innovation, regardless of whether or not it's a personal one, unless you're claiming that Prince created his style out of nothing, like Venus springing forth fully formed from the head of Zeus?
?????...lol...listen, praising Sting for adding arabic touches to a popular song played on radio and passing that shit off as "innovative" is ridiculous, especially considering that Prince hit the top 10 with "7" doing the exact same damn thing...lol...that was my point, that your example of "innovation" was pathetically weak...and nowhere did I say Prince was innovative for using it in "7", or did you notice that??...If so, you forgot it as soon as you noticed it, cuz you seem to think I was saying just that... And back to this being your personal view of innovation. I never simply said anything because I admire what an artist does.
but the examples you give as "innovation" are nothing but your admiration at what they've accomplished, NOT examples of how WHAT they've done is innovative in any way, shape, or form... By your definition then, when exactly does an artist's innovation end?
I never said it did...and if you read again closely this time, you'll see that...lol...I only said one thing: That finding fault with an artist's output simply because it's not "innovative" is missing the point...and no, Sting and U2 are not innovative at all...look up the word, and you'll see it as: "Ahead of the times; being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before"...Now, come back with the definition, and tell me how ANYTHING Sting has done over the past 10 years fits that definition... Do you just argue because you like to see your words on the screen? There are more enriching hobbies available
Nah...my hobby is showing all the millions of holes in some blowhard's faulty logic... | |
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Now this is getting juicy! I'll never understand people that think that their view of an album should be shared by everyone. There are albums that I don't like as much as others and anytime I see someone raving about NPS or Come I will go put it on and see if I can hear what they hear. I have noticed that you can't like NPS without liking Come and vice versa. Same with disliking them.
Even a bad Prince album is 5 times better than most of the stuff out there today...IMHO, of course. I could be wrong. I could be delusional. It could just be that Bob George voice in my head. But I am NOT innovative! [This message was edited Mon Apr 8 12:59:30 PDT 2002 by Bosco] | |
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wellbeyond said: IrishEcho said: Well, that's "to you." Then again, if that's the case, why be at all impressed with Prince's jazz work on TRC, if that's the stuff that happens to be turning your crank on that particular CD? Many jazz artists have done it before and done it better.
Geez, do you even READ what I write??..lol..My entire argument is that Prince does NOT have to be "innovative" to be praised!!...lol...All you did right here is back up what I said, that I don't think TRC is praiseworthy cuz of innovation, but simply because of passion, musicianship, and that he pushes himself... And the point of your point would be? That's hardly an earth-shattering observation. Perhaps a better argument against anything you've said on this thread would be a simple "Who cares?" And what you said is that you agree with Supernova 100%, including his statement: "Free your mind. Think outside the box, or listen to "She Loves Me 4 Me", and your ass will follow." which is rather elitist of you. Oh right. Wow, one song. We can also cite the Arabic influence in Prince's "The One," or TGRES, if that was actually my point. A shame it wasn't anything other than a single example. Point was, he got it on the radio, against what everyone else was telling him. One of the marks of an innovator is to gain popular appeal with experimentation. We could also talk about Sting's use of jazz, bossa nova, Memphis horns, classical, Eastern-European & other sounds in his music, which has changed considerably from his punk days. And as a matter of fact it is an innovation, regardless of whether or not it's a personal one, unless you're claiming that Prince created his style out of nothing, like Venus springing forth fully formed from the head of Zeus?
?????...lol...listen, praising Sting for adding arabic touches to a popular song played on radio and passing that shit off as "innovative" is ridiculous, especially considering that Prince hit the top 10 with "7" doing the exact same damn thing...lol...that was my point, that your example of "innovation" was pathetically weak...and nowhere did I say Prince was innovative for using it in "7", or did you notice that??...If so, you forgot it as soon as you noticed it, cuz you seem to think I was saying just that... Weak? Hardly. If that was not innovative, why was there nothing else like it on the radio at the time? Why was his record company discouraging him from putting that into the song? No, you did not say Prince was innovative for using Arabic touches in 7. You were attempting (and I can't stress that enough) sarcasm. And back to this being your personal view of innovation. I never simply said anything because I admire what an artist does.
but the examples you give as "innovation" are nothing but your admiration at what they've accomplished, NOT examples of how WHAT they've done is innovative in any way, shape, or form... Again, that's your opinion. And nothing more. Evolution and innovation are two different things. And Sting, as I will continue to maintain, is an innovator. If you are evolving, you are going to reach and end point. Sting, Prince & others are constantly changing and thereby innovating their sound. You don't see them reaching an end, do you? By your definition then, when exactly does an artist's innovation end?
I never said it did...and if you read again closely this time, you'll see that...lol...I only said one thing: That finding fault with an artist's output simply because it's not "innovative" is missing the point...and no, Sting and U2 are not innovative at all...look up the word, and you'll see it as: "Ahead of the times; being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before"...Now, come back with the definition, and tell me how ANYTHING Sting has done over the past 10 years fits that definition... Again, evolution implies an ultimate form will be reached. Innovation does not & it's a far more fitting description of both of these artists. Going by your definition, neither Sting nor Prince could ever be called innovators. Do you just argue because you like to see your words on the screen? There are more enriching hobbies available
Nah...my hobby is showing all the millions of holes in some blowhard's faulty logic... I needn't blow hard here when a mere April breeze would knock you down. I have to go find a homeless man to pay to stand in line for me now. | |
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IrishEcho said: And the point of your point would be? That's hardly an earth-shattering observation.
Yanno, when I have to explain even the simplest of things to you over and over again, all it does is underscore how pathetic your comprehension skills are...you're so set on trying to match "wits" with me(if that's what you call your posts) that you can't even stay focused on the topic of debate...lol... One last time, and I'll bold it for ya since you're so fond of that..lol..the person who started this thread faulted Prince--and TRC--for not being innovative...my argument was that Prince shouldn't have to be "innovative" in order to be praised, then gave examples of U2 and Sting being praised while offering nothing in the way of musical innovation recently... Please tell me you finally got that...lol And what you said is that you agree with Supernova 100%, including his statement:
"Free your mind. Think outside the box, or listen to "She Loves Me 4 Me", and your ass will follow." which is rather elitist of you. Damn...not only do you not know the definition of "innovative", you dont' know the definition of "elitist" either..lol...I should just post a link to Websters.com for you from now on...
Weak? Hardly. If that was not innovative, why was there nothing else like it on the radio at the time?
Emphasis on "at the time"...lol...things like arabic touches were hardly new at the time of Sting's single...just because they're not the "norm" at the time doesn't make them innovative, either...you know, men singing in falsetto's are so amazingly rare on the radio these days that, by your definition, Prince releasing a single in a falsetto would be "innovative"...lol Why was his record company discouraging him from putting that into the song?
Just because the record company discourages it doesn't make it innovative!!...lol...GEEEEEZ, how hard is that to comprehend??...By the way, just because it's not heard on radio does NOT mean it's not heard at ALL...whooopee if Sting--or Prince for that matter--puts arabic flourishes into a pop song...there are dozens of other artists who don't cater to the pop masses who do the SAME damn thing...or are you saying their contributions should be ignored, leaving the title of "innovator" to the likes of Sting cuz he used it in a radio-friendly song??... Again, that's your opinion. And nothing more. Evolution and innovation are two different things. And Sting, as I will continue to maintain, is an innovator. If you are evolving, you are going to reach and end point. Sting, Prince & others are constantly changing and thereby innovating their sound. You don't see them reaching an end, do you?
I can't even have a discussion with you if you're not willing to allow yourself to use the word "innovation" correctly...let me know when you truly understand what that word means, and not just what you want that word to mean... Again, evolution implies an ultimate form will be reached. Innovation does not & it's a far more fitting description of both of these artists. Going by your definition, neither Sting nor Prince could ever be called innovators.
Um, nope...Prince was most definitely ahead of his time, and there is ample evidence in how his music from almost 20 years ago is still influencing today's music scene, and in significant ways...so being "ahead of one's time" is being innovative, so Prince fits that description...also, Prince's use of synths and drum programming had not been heard before...find ONE song anywhere that came before "Annie Christian" or "Something In The Water" which sounds like either of those songs...the thing is, you won't...drum programming was pushed way, way ahead by Prince in the 80's, to the point that guys like Timberland right now owe their success to what Prince started 20 years ago...so right there, Prince fits the definition of "innovative"... Does your stupidity have no limits??... I needn't blow hard here when a mere April breeze would knock you down. I have to go find a homeless man to pay to stand in line for me now.
Dont' mistake your high-pitched farts for a "breath of fresh air"..and if you do, it only goes to show how stale and rank your surroundings have been thus far...lol | |
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The voice on TRC never bothered me. In fact, I was happy that Prince made something that is NOT just a collection of songs.
I think that while making this album he was truly inspired. I won't say that it's in my top5 or 3 or whatever, but I remember thinking about what artist/band makes music that has a great funky beat, raw guitar jamming and that you can sing-a-long to... and then he dropped Family Name! I'd say that's my favorite song on TRC, followed by Mellow, Last December and Digital Garden. | |
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Wellbeyond, this guy isn't worth debating anything with. He goes off on non sequitur tangents that have nothing to do with the subject at hand CONSTANTLY in many threads, I've noticed. It's not worth your time. Which is the reason I've stopped reading most of his posts when it comes to something being debated. It's like he's trying to throw you off track with the tangents because he can't adequately back up his rhetoric. This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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I just love this album. To me, it's right up there with his best and I still play it constantly.
Nobody seems to mention the sublime instrumental parts at the end of the song The Rainbow children and of course The Sensual Everafter. I hear that sublime guitar playing and I smile every time. This album just has a great flow and is his best produced album ever imho. The narrator voice doesn't bother me, I find it soothing and mellow. The voice works brillaintly in the opening of 1+1+1=3. Lastly, I'd just like to say that I agree with everything that has been said by both Supernova and Wellbeyond in this thread. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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LOL, love the sig, bkw! This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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bkw said: Nobody seems to mention the sublime instrumental parts at the end of the song The Rainbow children and of course The Sensual Everafter. I hear that sublime guitar playing and I smile every time.
Can't you just hear the coda on the title track as something Radiohead-ish? Except I think Prince's guitar playing pulls at the heart-strings more than O'Brien and Greenwood's playing. This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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While TRC is absolutely undeniable as far as musicianship and innovation (for the genre) is concerned, I don't find myself listening to it that much anymore.
Could be that I had on repeat so much at first, that I'm fulfilled for now. But I think it also has something to do with the vibe surrounding it. I was at the Celebration and attended a listening session which included a discussion with Prince. That was real cool and all, but because I went I cannot draw my own conclusions, make my own meanings, or connect with the album naturally. Of course, this does not in anyway affect my opinion of the inspiration, talent, sound, and production skillz that went into creating it. I'd say it is rated very high in my mind and I enjoy "She Loves Me For Me", "1+1+1=3", "Last December" and ESPECIALLY the instrumentals immensely. Just my humble opinion [This message was edited Sun May 4 13:07:28 PDT 2003 by chatounettecontrole] *************************************************
And the moral of this motherfucker is... | |
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Supernova said: Wellbeyond, this guy isn't worth debating anything with. He goes off on non sequitur tangents that have nothing to do with the subject at hand CONSTANTLY in many threads, I've noticed. It's not worth your time. Which is the reason I've stopped reading most of his posts when it comes to something being debated. It's like he's trying to throw you off track with the tangents because he can't adequately back up his rhetoric.
yeah, I'm starting to see that...lol...I think I'll follow your advice and will just graze over the posts with Darth Vader on them...lol | |
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Supernova said: Can't you just hear the coda on the title track as something Radiohead-ish? Except I think Prince's guitar playing pulls at the heart-strings more than O'Brien and Greenwood's playing.
Family Name has some Radiohead-ish moments, too...as KS pointed out long ago, the computer voice echoes "Fitter Happier", but also to me the drum beat of "Family Name" echoes the one on "Airbag" a bit, as well as how "Airbag" ends with those dramatic blasts of synth and guitar(or whatever made those sounds..lol)..."Family Name" at the end echoes the end of "Airbag" in conjuring up some very dramatic sounds of its own... | |
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I would have to disagree with you about TRC. Just after I bought it, I dreaded having to take the time to sit down and actually listen for the hour. So I scanned through the tracks quickly, and it sat on a cd rack for about a month. Finally, I decided to give it a whirl. I opened up the cd book and followed along like a book on tape (remember those?), and I fell in love with the story. Yeah, maybe some of the more conservative listeners will have to ignore the religious statements, but I seriously loved it. Could've done without "A feast, a feast, a smorgasboard at least", but other than that I was impressed. I feared that Prince would lose his funk and all out musicianship with the change of his beliefs, but I was dead wrong. Although it is not the greatest album I have ever heard, it will stay in my car along with my other Prince favorites. | |
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I like trc alot, however to me its not any better than his other work. it's a very relaxing album for me & i listen to it to do just that,or when i go to bed. i've listened to it's story many times, so i just skip the robotic voice and the other parts that are narrative, and listen to the songs. i like ALL the songs. his voice is phenomenal on this cd. so smooth. May the BELLS ring 4 U even when ur not in love.   | |
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Prince albums generally take a bit of time to grow on me - with very few exceptions. (Even SOTT took a couple of listens due to the sheer diversity of styles - it's hard to catch eveything in one listen).
The same is certainly true of TRC. Having listened to it over and over, I have to say that this is a return to form and each song adds to the next to build into an overall composition of style and substance. OK, the narrator's voice is a HUGE mistake and this is the one sticking point in giving it a top rating but if you can try to avoid it (hard I know) and just dig the songs themselves you will not be disappointed. For the record, my favourites are Last December, The Work Pt.1, Rainbow Children and Wedding Feast. Hmmmm....maybe not the last one. Why is there always one disastrous track on every Prince album? Everybody is special. Everybody. Everybody is a hero, a lover, a fool, a villain. Everybody. Everybody has their story to tell. |
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Now taking bets on who out of Wellbeyond and Irish Echo would win in a 2fight their way out of a paper bag competition"!
 Everybody is special. Everybody. Everybody is a hero, a lover, a fool, a villain. Everybody. Everybody has their story to tell. |
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wellbeyond said: Supernova said: Can't you just hear the coda on the title track as something Radiohead-ish? Except I think Prince's guitar playing pulls at the heart-strings more than O'Brien and Greenwood's playing.
Family Name has some Radiohead-ish moments, too...as KS pointed out long ago, the computer voice echoes "Fitter Happier", but also to me the drum beat of "Family Name" echoes the one on "Airbag" a bit, as well as how "Airbag" ends with those dramatic blasts of synth and guitar(or whatever made those sounds..lol)..."Family Name" at the end echoes the end of "Airbag" in conjuring up some very dramatic sounds of its own... Been ages since I've listened to OK Computer. I shall... This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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GoldTimer said: For the record, my favourites are Last December, The Work Pt.1, Rainbow Children and Wedding Feast. Hmmmm....maybe not the last one. Why is there always one disastrous track on every Prince album?
You're saying you didn't realize it was a joke? And some people make it seem like Prince has no sense of humor... This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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This one, like many others, takes a while to grow on u. I took the download version and edited it myself, something I've done with a few of his releases. Chopped out the deep narrator's voice, "Wedding Feast", "Everywhere" and a few of the overlong instrumental space parts. I like this 1 the nore I hear it and have 2 admit that I was ready to chuck it out the window the first time I heard it, fully convinced that this was the one; he'd finally blown it, etc. As usual, it turned out 2 b challenging. After hearing the material live I've really devoloped an appreciation 4 it. | |
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Supernova said: GoldTimer said: For the record, my favourites are Last December, The Work Pt.1, Rainbow Children and Wedding Feast. Hmmmm....maybe not the last one. Why is there always one disastrous track on every Prince album?
You're saying you didn't realize it was a joke? And some people make it seem like Prince has no sense of humor... The best jokes are when you have your audience WITH YOU not AGAINST YOU. Funniest thing Prince has ever done - has to be on NPGMC - you know the 1 "Artist, every syllable....." Love it! Everybody is special. Everybody. Everybody is a hero, a lover, a fool, a villain. Everybody. Everybody has their story to tell. |
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GoldTimer said:[quote] Supernova said: GoldTimer said: For the record, my favourites are Last December, The Work Pt.1, Rainbow Children and Wedding Feast. Hmmmm....maybe not the last one. Why is there always one disastrous track on every Prince album?
You're saying you didn't realize it was a joke? And some people make it seem like Prince has no sense of humor... The best jokes are when you have your audience WITH YOU not AGAINST YOU.
I hope someone explains to him that people who still buy his music and go to his concerts are "against" him. Funniest thing Prince has ever done - has to be on NPGMC - you know the 1 "Artist, every syllable....."
Love it! I'm not part of the club, and very rarely even check his site. This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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If you haven't already, and your chance is coming, get yo
ass to a One Night Alone Concert.....I didn't listen to TRC that much until I witnessed it live.....After that.....I've played it constantly.....I think once you see the music played live it'll all come together for you and you'll have no complaints about any of it..... Oh, And that voice everybody is complaining about..... Prince usesthat voice in the show....I know it's soundboard distortion but, I think he is behind it on the album too. bgladthaturfree bgladthaturfree
Igotthabuttafoyomuffin | |
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This album is the best album in many years and ranks in the top 5 of his career.It reminded me of a old Parliament/Funkadelic album . |
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It's unfortunate that most of the threads on this site end up being pissing contests that only seem 2 happen amongst a small group of people.  The Mothership Connection... Funk, Soul, R&B, & Jazz every Monday night @ 8:00 p.m. Listen @ www.wqaq.com (We are off the air 4 the Summer. Returning in early September 2004) | |
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