pimpytheclown said:

sorry bub, i gotta politly disagree with you. the above mentioned albums have more filling in them than Liz Taylor.

For me, the difference with the everything after Lovesexy is that he didnt push himself to new levels. Sure, one can argue that an artist peaks for a short period of time..but I dont feel that way. If an artist surounds himself around "fresh" thinkers...it will keep the mind and soul fresh.

I love how Wendy and Lisa commented in an article that when they make albums, if a song sounds anything like a previously released song, even if they love the song...the scrap it. I wish Prince would aply that rule instead of "filling" his albums with songs that sound like his previous work. Thats why a lot of people dont have an interest in him.

My office parter today asked me to turn off the Symbol Album today. He commented that he was tired of listening to me playing Prince all the time and that it was making him loose respect for Prince as an artist. (this is a guy who a year ago looooovveeed Prince and went to a couple concerts and wants to go to the new one). but, he said too many songs on the albums sound a like. Funny he mentions that after I played The Gold Album, Emancipation and Symbol within a one week timeperiod of eachother. And you know what? I agree with him. ...

The only truly groundbreaking thing Prince has done since Lovesexy was "The Truth". Sure, there are some "fillers" in that album..but I still listen because each song is a new lifeform. Different than any within the album or any other. Even TRC..as much as I enjoyed the album...it now gets zero airplay at my home because it was all very been there done that. this is why prince needs to stop working with past their prime people like Najee, Rhonda Smith and Larry Graham. He needs an infussion of "freshness". He needs to *EDIT* his albums. Thats why I want him to spend a weekend with Bjork. She would slap the pretentiousness out of him and tell him, "LOOK, lets get unconscious baby..lets make some new sounds." She is able to do it, and she has been doing it since the early eighties.

ohh..btw: thats all my opinion. prince is his own man and can do whatever the hell he wants. however, i am my own man and i have the right to post my dreams on this forum...


GO DENZEL AND HALLE!!!

mostly i think it was sort of his own fault mainly-he really stated 2 believe his own personal mythology 2 the expense of his just just being a conduit 4 the power of music that God grants some people... and it's 2 damn bad...

Pride comes b4 a fall...

he's proved that...

I blame his fan base personally!

rio said:

Rio, I believe that is exactly it. Although I absolutely love the album, I think "Around the World in A Day" is a decision Prince is STILL paying for. I don't believe that is the sole reason but I do believe it was a MAJOR factor. His popularity grew and grew and grew with every album that was released prior to Purple Rain. I don't believe he "gained" a lot of fans with the ATWIAD album. I believe it was a little too "out there" with a lot of people. I believe people were willing to give him another chance but he then released Parade. After that I think the masses gave up. By the time SOTT rolled around the music scene started to Dramatically change. And, to top it off, he didn't tour with SOTT wich is another decision I think he is STILL paying for.

Like I said, the whole Around the World in a Day thing threw everyone a little further than anyone was expecting. After playing the last 3 tracks of Purple Rain, then going right into the first 3 tracks of ATWIAD (everyone quickly due a run through of those songs in that order) was a little too much for the masses and it turned them off.

I know it's about the music and some may call it sucking up or selling out, but if Prince wants to make the money and stay in the running, he has to give people what they want.

*I love all of those albums I named by the way. *

He wasn't Mr Nice Guy. He doesn't always do what he's fans want. He releases too many albums too soon that its hard to keep up with. Some people are too scared that they will cope a lot of flack for liking him that they don't. He doesn't really have a great deal to often, he is no longer cutting edge, he's not pop, he's for the fans. Neverless, a fantastic song writing, and will go down as a legend!

"SCREW THE MASSES"

wellbeyond said:

absolutely hit the nail on the head...
certainly in the UK the gold tour damaged him, the law suits against the fans just staggered belief, topped off, of course, with a steady decline in quality output...

Well, I agree with lots of comments here about the 90s, 80s, etc, and I would love to see Prince groundbreaking and fresh again, pushing himself to ´new levels´.
On the other hand, Prince is an artist and he is free. So, if he wants to record a song like ´And God created woman´ (which I LOVE BTW), why shouldnt he? Just because it´s not original, or fresh???
Prince is more mature now, and I am glad he seems to have learned the ´Rave lesson´...now he really doesnt seem so worried about hits. And it will surely make his music less committed to what´s ´hot´. ´Xenophobia´ is a good example of this ´new direction´. It seems he will reach another audience now.

Eye don't think he's unpopular he's just outgrown most the masses. Far as radio-airplay, ppl can request 2 hear songs, U may just hear a song or 2, but that's it. Unless Prince is n town or on tour, u don't c nor hear Prince musiz as much, eye would say promotion, but f4om my understanding & truly specualation here, he's not suppose 2 b "Promoting" n such a way that can hinder himself later (if y'all no what eye mean:) also eye image that it has alot to do w/the "unknown" that guides the media elsewhere.

Peace
Pious~

Personally I think he sold out with Batman. He went on to do some quite succesful Pop music, but alot of people stopped taking him seriously. He stopped leading and started following.
Only now I think he's back on the right path again.

$
I'm afraid you're all overlooking just how much impact on popularity and powerful a major MARKETING operation is when the artist COOPERATES with the short and long term success of the plan. The motion picture industry did this with BATMAN & PURPLE RAIN however in the music industry Prince has only (sadly) "partially" cooperated with major marketing pushes during the pre release of Diamonds & Pearls. The artist committed 2 SHOWING UP 4 the special olympics and tv spots as part of the overall cooperative successful venture. Since then, he has earned a track record of failing 2 stick with the project. And this is puzzling. I laugh at the notion that management, labels and the quality of his work could be a major reason 4 lack of exposure and unpopularity.
$
If he wants 2 stay underground and feels comfortable with the cult status of his music career.. then by all means I wish him all the luck with his current plan of "LAUNCH AND TOUR" "LAUNCH AND TOUR"
$
I think UPTOWN magazine was a good resource 4 inside mention and analysis of some of the marketing attempts throughout the years. Also some (since retracted) quotes from C. Davis really assemble an interesting viewpoint on his choices when and why 2 sever cooperation under pressure.

The name change has made him more of a lasting icon than anything else he has ever done, and is his defining moment in the public eye.

I too think he's better off if he can survive out of the mainstream.

However, that's a pretty big if. He tried before, but ended up signing with Arista, now he's having another go at independent distribution.

As I mentioned before, this isn't just about Prince. There are a ton of people that are depending on him to be successful, namely his band and those who run the label. He has to consider that.

As much as he (and we) would like like him to be able to flourish with no ties to the traditional mainstream music industry, I doubt that he can sustain himself for very long that way.

Prince might not like the industry, but he likes that money. Don't let the smooth taste fool you! He may make more money by distributing himself, but he also spends alot of money as well.

Saxjedi said:

I think the name change was a sad fiasco that he never quite recovered from.Whatever his reasons,it was a bad career move.

ace316 said:

- Dont worry....there are lots of artists that sell much less than Prince and still survive and pay their musicians and employees. Besides, Prince´s concert tickets usually sell well. And we all know that usually artists make much more money with concerts than recordings

You might as well call this tour Hit and Run too. He's waiting until the last minute to book and confirm shows which kills any preshow promotion by radio. They should be talking about his show at least a month before and instead it's about a week.

i remeber playing "the war" in the presence of a friend on mine. he asked me "who is that! that is tight! i said it was prince and he totally lost interest in what he was hearing. another time i was listening 2 d' angelo back when he first came out in the pesence of another friend. she asked in a sarcastic way, "is that prince?" i said no thats the new d'angelo and was like oh! from that moment on she was all ears. i think people (especially young people) have really just been indoctrinated with the idea that mainstream radio is what real music is about. plus people(shallow people) need validation. they like 2 know that everybody likes what they like. i agree with alot of whats been said so i just wanted 2 bring something different 2 the table.

The plain fact is, WB didn't promote his later albums the way they should have. It's that simple. In the mid 90s, WB records was undergoing massive changes in their corporation. Many of their pioneers, like Mo Ostin, left the company. The new suits just didn't know what to do with a guy like Prince, who just isn't interested in doing things "by the book". Many of WBs artists in the past several years have suffered from this lack of forsight on the company's part. WB is now a label with very few chart topping artists.

Unfortunatly, Prince doesn't have a clue how to market himself either. Since the split with WB, he hasn't taken advantage of any mometum he builds. His refusal to cooperate with Clive Davis when TGRES flopped didn't help. While Clive definitely made a mistake in picking this as the first single, he probably could have found a way to market this disc eventually (no matter how crappy the album was).

While things like the name change and the "We Are The World" debacle have hurt Prince over the years, they definitely weren't career killing moves. (If weirdness killed careers, Michael Jackson would have been done a long time ago.) The fact is, if your record doesn't get proper promotion, it won't be heard beyond your fan base. Prince's late 90s CDs got very little push, so they were largely unheard by the general public. Some may try to argue that Prince wasn't putting out as good of albums as he did in the 80s, but that really has nothing to do with it. With good promotion, the crappiest album can become a huge hit (how else do you explain the success of Britney, Limp Bizket, Linkin Park, N Sync, etc.?). Prince has not had proper promotion in years. He received a little for RAVE, but a mediocre single killed it. If he had allowed Clive the time to get other singles out, it might have happened. There is absolutely no reason Prince couldn't be a success again, but it would require a major label to push him, with his full cooperation. This is, of course, highly unlikely. Prince seems to prefer to do things his own way (which is fine with me. I'd rather hear a brilliant album like TRC, with no commercial potential, than hear a mediocre album that tops the charts).

wel a lot of people dont follow him like we do.and he's not on the radio(only is old hits).he's not on t.v .so they think he stopped.the name change has donne him no good.and after that the release of cotract fillers.like come & chaos and dissorder.(i love come by the way).and he was 2 busy fighting against the music biss.we now he's right but a lot of people are not following al this.he's still poular .if eye play his songs in the club(eye'm a d.j) they always fill the dance floor .even the new songs work they usualy don't know it and ask me who is this.when eye reply that its prince .then they say waauw is he back.its about time.the masses just don't know about his latest work.he has 2 do something by promoting hi's music better.and maybe just putt on hit in it.why did he not putt last december or everlasting now out as a single.or like rave.the wrong first single.no slows but some funky or rock 'n 'roll screaming songs.like VAVOOM BAM here i am.no he puts out the greates romance .well good song but nut as first single 4 a so called come back.but on the other hand its maybe better that he keeps running like this.eye love it and eye don't care if he's popular or not.he's amazing still and thats whats inportant.sorry 4 my spellings eye'm from belguim.

I'd rather hear a brilliant album like TRC, with no commercial potential, than hear a mediocre album that tops the charts).[/quote]

I second that my young padawan.

KeithyT

His music began to suck real bad in the 90's, plain and simple. All the bad decisions like fighting with WB, changing the name, and Larry G., all just contributed to his already declining popularity.

jedipadawan said:

true genious' can do both....prince used to be able to do that..but to be honest...TRC is a safe album. Funk with some light jazz sprinkled abound. A nice album..but very safe...the only thing new and controversal is the message he is sending....

Do you think Radiohead's albums are "pop" accessible? Hell no....but they sell like hotcakes though...Ditto for Bjork...

I think the name change turned everyone off. Emancipation was his 1st release with a major label after his departure with WB. If it had been one disc it probably would have sold more copies and helped him along in the 90's.

SkletonKee said:

- Oh yeah...that´s what I said....despite the Britneys and BSBs, there is still a huge audience for people who aren´t ´poppish´. The only problem for Prince to reach that audience again is that lots of Radiohead and Bjork fans still see Prince as a ´pop star´ and usually dont care to listen to a full album of his.

You know, the more I think about this, the more I'm convinced that it was Prince's own decision. Certainly, doing more interviews, if for nothing else then to clarify his stance on a few things, would've helped, but then, the interviews were there if he chose to do them. And in fact, I think his realtive evasiveness over the years actually increased his longevity, enabling him to remain unignored and respected, while at the same time preventing his overexposure. Indeed, a little bit of Prince goes a long for most folks.

His insistence on remaining "ome step ahead" of what most of us are expecting from him is a one of the million things I respect about him and b what keeps his albums from mainstream success, that and his disdain for promotion, marketing and commercialism. He started throwing curveballs at us with Around The World in a Day and hasn't quit, right on through TRC, and has tossed so many at me that I often forget to swing the bat. The closest thing to a "sellout" he's ever created was "Batman", and I remain consistently perplexed at the many critics who claim he's sold his soul at every turn.

Have you noticed how long it can take sometimes for the "new" material to grow on you? When I first heard TRC, I really thought he'd blown it and unleashed an unfathomable shitcloud on all of us. Same with "Lovesexy". I think we can all abandon the idea of Prince ever really putting together a fully consistent, undeniable masterpiece of fully bloomed flowers (something he hasn't done since SOTT), but I'll take the whole garden, however he offers it, pull out the weeds, and enjoy the fragrance and beauty of what remains.

F**k the masses.

"I can't guarantee your safety, It oughta' b understood..."

NotoriousBILL said:

I think u misunderstood, and reference the above post 4 what I meant by "Play by the Rules". The bottom line is, he doesn't want it, and I don't believe ever really has. His genuine freakout at the success of Purple Rain is testament to this and well documented.

And frankly, I enjoy being a fan more now that he's not "popular", especailly since I don't have 2c his shows in a godamned football stadium. Make a list of your top 10 all time favorite musicians, then contrast that with a list of the top 10 albums ever sold and c how many matches u get. NEVER equate "success" with sales. Money is just a means, not an ends.

A few more random rants and responses 2 what I've read:

"The biggest reason he lost his popularity is because the quality of the songwriting just nosedived."

Bullshit.

"Another point may be the fact that although the Revolution may not have been his best band technically..."

The Revolution weren't anything CLOSE to a great band. Basically, their job was to play his parts from the albums because he obviously couldn't do all that on stage by himself. Truth be told, and blast me for heresy, they kind of sucked.


"If prince became "popular again" (whatever that means)
u idiots would be screaming about how he is selling out to the public or radio...if he became huge like Britney or Nsync....ya'll would hate him for that....
No matter what he does or puts out ..u guys whine ,,whine,,whine.. "

YES!

Oh yeah, let me say it again: f**k the masses. Let em' have Eminem...
[This message was edited Tue Mar 26 11:36:18 PST 2002 by herbthe4]

"I'll take the whole garden, however he offers it, pull out the weeds, and enjoy the fragrance and beauty of what remains. "
- That was nice! In fact, I dont believe he will be ´ahead of his time´ again. TRC is a very good album, but not so innovative as SOTT. To be honest, I never saw an artist that was innovative his entire life. If P keeps on releasing albums with a good quality of musicianship and independence, it´s fine for me...

SkletonKee said:

When TRC first dropped, I honestly thought it was brilliant. In hindsight, I agree that it is really "lite" Prince to a certain extent... I think the Truth was actually more innovative in many ways.

I think that Prince's live music during the '90s was often more innovative than what he would then record in the studio. Take Face Down, a very ordinary studio song, that I've seen performed brilliantly live. (See Jones Beach '97 video!) I think he's failed to bring the rawness of some of his live shows into the studio. The studio version of Funky Design puts me to sleep, while the live version from Paisely in 1995 kicks my ass. Even great albums like the Gold Experience or Emancipation could be MUCH better if he would have pushed the envelope with his choice of instruments and sounds.

That is what Radiohead so popular, they challenge themselves to find new sounds. Prince needs to re-vamp his recording studio

Not so much changing his name, but changing it to a symbol!