herbthe4 said:

I don't think I ever really hated it. That single track idea made it hard to get into the material. NO, I definitely was not raving about it at the time. I did come around to liking it a lot more (one of his best!) after I got back into Prince in mid 90s.

violator said:

Am I pop? Am I funk? Am I rock?
Am I pop? Am I funk? Am I rock?
Am I pop? Am I funk? Am I rock?
Am I pop? Am I funk? Am I rock?
Am I pop? Am I funk? Am I rock?
Am I pop? Am I funk? Am I rock?
Am I pop? Am I funk? Am I rock?

on two words: Warner Bros.
After prince had made it clear he would leave they pulled out all the stops to boycot his carreer outside wb.

thats' how eye c it
kev1n

I don't know how to quote people on here.....


But basically I was going to rip some folks a new one for treating their opinions as die hard facts. You know who you are. It's a fact that you have an opinion about why Prince's music became unpopular. But your opinion sure ain't fact.

I think another thing that can be attributed to his lack of respect or what have you is not his own eratic behavior and decision making, but also the changes in music around him.

If you look at R&B, for example, Musicionship is out of the window.There are no more bands. No Cameo.No Time. No Gap Band. Hell, even Guy and Toni Tone Tony have faded to the waste side. R&B takes it's cues from Hip Hop, as opposed to the other way around.

But despite the lack of musicianship, R&B moves right along, despite being weak and watered down. There are exceptions, but not nearly enough.

This phenomenon has taken place across the board of popular music. Rock & Country have also seen major declines in over all musical quality. Pop & and Hip hop reign supreme.

Some people think that if Prince would just "play like he used to", or "play by the rules" he'd sell and be popular again".

I disagree. First of all, it's just not in him to play by the rules, it never has been. But I don't think it would sell today. Prince, above all else, is a musician. Well, guess what? The "masses" don't want musicianship anymore, they want a beat.

He could play Rock, but all the other rockers want to be hip hoppers.

He could play funk, but the masses don't even know what that is anymore.

He could do R&B, but..well..he'd have to do Hip Hop too.

I say fuck'em all. Prince do what you do and stay true to yourself.

Sorry if I ranted. This was my first post here.

jtgillia said:

There I think I fixed it....

shit, never mind.

great first post, ace316. I totally agree.

"The biggest reason he lost his popularity is because the quality of the songwriting just nosedived. I know that's not a popular notion for the 90's worshippers, but it's just plain facts."
- The fact is...Prince wasnt so original in the 90s. As much as I love the NPG (Michael, Sonny, Barbarella), Gold Experience, Symbol album, etc, I must admit that Prince had a very unique sound in the 80s, and it didnt happen in the 90s. Yesterday I was listening to ´Parade´ and that album sounded so unique and fresh in a way that ´Gold´ isnt. He did write some GREAT songs in the 90s, but they werent so unique as his 80s output

wha??

and the most "popular" artists today have a better sound ?????

Hi, jtgillia.

jtgillia said:

Thanks. Glad to be here.

I just think that Prince is in a really tough spot. The bottom line is "he's got to eat" and to do so, he must sell records. The NPGMC is a great idea in theory, but the bottom line is that everyone in the US, believe it or not, does not have the kind of computer access to make the NPGMC practical, and therefore something that Prince can depend on exclusivley.

Another thing that Prince must consider is that he has mouths to feed. Someone made a statement in a prevous post to the effect of "Prince changes his band members to often". True. Prince would have you believe that he simply grows and expands so much musically that others have a hard time keeping up. There may be a grain of truth there, but.....

How would you like to be in Prince's band, knowing that all your efforts do not have the backing of a major distributor. Yeah, they're all bloodsucking leaches, but they pay the bills. Prince may be able to afford not having that kind of financial backing, but folks like Sonny T, Tommy Barbarella and Levi Seacer Jr can't. Prince seems to forget that sometimes.

That's just the point.

His music was once so unique-sounding and original and suddenly . . . it wasn't. He did write some great tunes in the 90's, but it was drowned out by so much filler and crap that few people bothered to pay attention. And the worst part about it is that you can listen to stuff like 'D&P' and 'Symbol' and it's so obvious that he's dying to maintain his popularity. It was probably that very attitude that did the most damage to his music.

"I don't wanna be a poet, cause I don't wanna blow it. I don't care to win awards. All I wanna do is dance, play music, sex, romance. And try my best to never get bored."

When he abandoned that philosophy, everything went downhill.

He seems to have latched on to it once again on TRC. Let's hope it's an example of what we have to look forward to.

Stupids (& boring) singles choices.

Great point Violator.

For such an arrogant mofo as Prince can be, he can also be very insecure in the one constant in his career, his incrdible musical ability. Albums like D&P and Symbol, while I enjoyed them both, displayed a sort of desperation to be "hot" again. It's ironic that it was during this time that you saw Prince "out there" more. 2 Arsenio Hall show apearences, MTV Music Awards, etc. It's as if he wanted the whole world to see him again, and he wanted them to see what he thought they wanted so see.

The thing I like about Prince right now, is that he seems to have enough confidence to let his music stand on its own. No rapping. No dry-humping the stage. No licking the mic stand. I'm not a religious person by any means, but The Rainbow Children showed guts from Prince that I haven't seen in awhile.

ace316 said:

That he did in the 80's. I think the ass showing pants, the rapping/hip hop, the "ganster glam" stuff was just, bad, bad, bad.

Looking back at those two albums you guys are talking about, now they look and feel dated as opposed to most of his albums in the 80's that are classics.

At the time of the early nineties, I wasn't too thrilled at the direction, creatively and musically. I mean he was still Prince, but I went along with it. Sure there are moments on D&P's and the Symbol album that stand out but, it was all Las Vegassy. And it did show some desperation to not be forgotten and remain relevant to the masses.

Could it have been pressure from WB? At the time he had a huge $100 million dollar deal you know?

I liked him raw and underground. Like Camille, kind of like he is now. Back to himself...a bit.

I certainly don't want to dismiss the fact that there were majors problems between Prince and WB. If you look at the previous album, Grafiti Bridge and the movie itself, both were seen as big flops.

Prior to that Prince seem to be back in the good graces of the "Masses" with the Batman Sountrack. However, he was still recovering from the Lovesexy album that he pretty much sabotaged by posing nude on the front.

It goes on and on. The Black Album release and the subsequent recall.

I'm no fan of the wat WB has dealt with prince, but to be fare, brother man is a handful?

I'm all for Prince and any ortist having creatinve freedom, but you can't do erratic, illogical shit and expect everyone to stand up and applaud.

Prince IMO is the most talented and important artist of the 20th century, but his decision making and desire to want to have his cake and eat it too has caused much of the general public perception of him to be apathetic after all that they've seen of him all this time. That is real shame.

herbthe4 said:

Absolute bullshit! The Batman soundtrack, Graffiti Bridge, Diamonds & Pearls, etc. were so commercial and trite they made New Kids on the Block look hip.

What blew if for Prince was a combination of 1.) paranoia about needing to make more and more money and 2.) taking himself too seriously - delusions of divinity. Back during albums like Dirty Mind and 1999 he was raw, crazy and scared out of his mind (in a good way).

herbthe4 said:

Absolute bullshit! The Batman soundtrack, Graffiti Bridge, Diamonds & Pearls, etc. were so commercial and trite they made New Kids on the Block look hip.

What blew if for Prince was a combination of 1.) paranoia about needing to make more and more money and 2.) taking himself too seriously - delusions of divinity. Back during albums like Dirty Mind and 1999 he was raw, crazy and scared out of his mind (in a good way).

It's simple, the combo of Brownmark and Prince.org.



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Well, I am a die - hard Prine fan; however, I believe Prince's non-comformist M.O. and unwillingness to kiss and suck ass to everyone was what turned folks off. People like someone who will stick their face in the camera, give everyone the low-down on life, and generally give people the impression that the stars personal business. Prince never did that. I do remember when he refused to do the "we are the world" thing, people really disliked it. I do not believe Madonna did it either, and she's still on top. So I do believe Prince's Howard Hughes reputation as being ecentric and reclusive turned folks off. But some of it is Prince's falt too, name change, his attitude on his son's passing, and other issues contributed to the fall.

violator said:[quote
That's just the point.

His music was once so unique-sounding and original and suddenly . . . it wasn't. He did write some great tunes in the 90's, but it was drowned out by so much filler and crap that few people bothered to pay attention. And the worst part about it is that you can listen to stuff like 'D&P' and 'Symbol' and it's so obvious that he's dying to maintain his popularity. It was probably that very attitude that did the most damage to his music.

"I don't wanna be a poet, cause I don't wanna blow it. I don't care to win awards. All I wanna do is dance, play music, sex, romance. And try my best to never get bored."

When he abandoned that philosophy, everything went downhill.

He seems to have latched on to it once again on TRC. Let's hope it's an example of what we have to look forward to.[/quote]
- I agree with you, but I dont think it´s the cause that Prince is impopular, because even if he was trying so hard to be ´hot´, there were songs that were still very catchy and strong. Michael Jackson and Madonna are dying to be hot and they sell very well. I agree that in the case of Prince, he lost lots of fans who admired Prince´s original and artistic side. But the teen fans only care about catchy choruses and attitude, and ´Symbol´ and ´DP´ had these elements. IMO, record companies weren´t trusting P anymore, and not willing to promote his music the way it deserved.

Just to touch on the earlier comments in ragards to albums like Batman, Graffiti Bridge and others being examples of Prince "conforming":

I believe there is validity in the fact that he basically did what WB wanted, however Prince is a funny kind of artist in that his mood and emotions come out in his music. You can almost tell when Prince is pissed off(Black Album), feeling spiritual( Lovesexy), spitefull(Come), and even apathetic (Chaos & Disorder).

He may have gone along with what was asked of him at the time, but he "goes along" in such a adverse, rebellious, and almost sarcastic way, that it's kind of obvious that his isn't going alone at all.

Prince was quoted once as saying that the success of Purple Rain scared him to death. He never wanted that much mainstream attention. But that level of success is exactly what WB and the public wanted from him every since. That's why he started to change so dramtically from album to album after that. His look, his band, his sound, everything, everytime. Much more so that before Purple Rain.

Eventually the public and WB got tired of the cat and mouse game. The Public will only beg you to give them what they want for so long until they tire and cast you aside and treat everything else you do with nothing but apathy. Just ask Michael Jackson.

SquirrelMeat said:

Squirrel I pretty much agree with your 2 posts, but when I say U2 is kissing ass, what I mean is that they play the game. After the Pop album and tour didn't do well, they basically recorded "Joshua Tree part 2" I think the new U2 album is very good, but it's also very familiar and classic U2 sounding. If Prince were to put out "Purple Rain pt 2" or "1999 pt2" I think there would be no question he would be back on top. U2 also does promotions with Target and
VH-1 and isn't afraid to play all their old hits in concert. Bono also works very hard at U2 public relations, doesn't fight with his new label Universal and doesn't turn down interviews or appearances. Prince won't do any of this which is his choice, but he will never get those old fans back either.

Prince's lack of "popularity" iz the result of the powerbrokers at
WARNERS and their far reaching influence
over the entire industry,,,one phone call and u'r media
card can be revoked! This is the case.
It has absolutely nuthing to do with hiz sound, or hair, or high heels.
No mo "mass media coverage" = lack of "popularity" with
the "masses". Out of sight outta mind.
I don't even think it's funny.

We have all made good points on this thread thus far. But I think it all boils down to the fact that Prince has brought his mainstream success and popularity down to its current level mostly by his own doing and because it turns out- that's what he really wants. He doesn't crave to be the biggest star in the music industry. He does like that money though, I won't deny that.

The biggest contributing factors to Prince's lack of popularity is his decision to not conform, do what he wants to do, and some occasional bad business decisions.

But I won't believe for a second that he is unpopular because of a falling in his music or songwriting- because I hear potential hit singles on almost every one of his albums. But to have a hit, you need promotion and videos, and you need to pick the right song!

I guarantee you though that Prince is happier at this position in his career than he was in his Purple heyday.

times change, and the teenagers that like him in the 80's grew up and matured, and prince matured too....styles change, times change.....and prince didn't wanna conform to the average radio format...why should he? plus the battle with w.bros....didn't help, he was black-listed by radio. radio is not what it used to be.....i haven't listened to radio in about 3 years now...if i like a band, i buy their cd, screw radio!

peace!

High,

The masses don't really appreciate true talent like Prince's anyway so who cares...

Live4Love...Liquid

Prince was NEVER built for wide-spread popularity methinks!He was NEVER built for appeal to the masses!

Quite simply, the output "1999" through "Sign o' the Times" was too good to ignore, and he rode a 5 year wave of public attention, mostly due to "Purple Rain",certainly not because of his "Dirty Mind" cover or "Jack U Off"-most of Disney-fied America rejects this stuff on a big scale.


* Emancipation
* Rainbow Children
* Symbol Album
* Gold Experience

These are all superb albums that rank along his best 80's stuff."Around the World in a Day","Batman"-sold better (read:Popular) than these albums, but aren't as good as the above list.

Wether Prince is popular or not on a large scale is NOT important.Let the masses buy Britney Spears discs.What is popularity? What is Art? What do you appreciate more?

To understand Prince's body of Work as a whole is to disregard "Popularity" in the equasion.

I'll have another Caesar, please!

I am so glad he's not as popular. We get to go to soundchecks and it's always cooler to like the underground artists anyway.

One more thing about Purple Rain's success. I think the timing was perfect for a rock and roll performance movie like this one. MTV was getting very popular and this was really one long musical performance video. MTV obviously made Thriller what it was too. Timing had a lot to do with both those albums doing crazy numbers. They'll never be able to repeat that. It was groundbreaking and that is tough to do more than once in a lifetime.