Okay, y'all are missing the point a bit.

Madonna's greatness is not due to how many records she has sold, how much her tours sell out, her dancing, her fame, her success, or even her music. Madonna is great because of her profound cultural influence in this country and the world. Over the years, she has wrenched control from the sexist media by co-opting sexist images and turning them on their head. She has re-owned the material girl image, the stripper image, the catholic virgin image, among zillions of others, all of which traditionally function in this society to oppress women. She has shattered stereotypes and used them for her own end, and ultimately to free women to define their own image on their own terms.

So she has slept to the top or whatever (this accusation is sexist at its roots, by the way). But the point is, she has used what this culture has dished out to her as a woman and used it against itself. She has power, she has money, she is beautiful, she is strong, she's not afraid to say what she thinks and she still has a heart. Anyone who doesn't appreciate this, is severely underestimating her significance. She is a role model for millions and has changed the way women see themselves or can be themselves in this culture forever.

Prince is the king musically, but culturally speaking, I'm not sure his influence is as profound as Madonna's. He's helped, but she's the trailblazer. Whatever you think about her music, her influence has been profound. She's a complex feminist renegade impossible to suppress, though lord, we may try.

jayaredee said:

Yeah, I worship Prince. Sorry, Madonna's not a really good guitar player. She's average at best. And can she write and produce a song on her own? Nope. I like Madonna, so don't evey try to make out that I don't.

And point out where I said her album was a failure, because I don't recall saying that.

The interesting thing is that I don't recall slamming Madonna's career in my post, and you took it upon yourself to make it seem as if I did, and then negate my opinion. Read into it what you want.
[This message was edited Sun Aug 8 10:49:30 2004 by RipHer2Shreds]

meow85 said:

proofs in the pudding!

heartbeatocean said:

Sorry, but how is speaking truth sexist. She even admitted to some sexual behavior that she wasn't proud of in a old interview I saw. So, because I'm a female and don't give props to some other female, who admitted to doing sexual things to skyrocket her career, that makes me sexist? You must have been born last Tuesday or something. If the admission came from Madonna's own mouth, than it must have some truth to it. Obsessed Madonna fans are a trip. "Madonna's Greatness"...like the chick is God are something. I love Prince, but "Prince's Greatness".... Damn, he's human like everyone else. He's just musically gifted, but he damn sure ain't perfect, which is how that "Madonna's Greatness" shit comes off. Like she ain't ever done some seriously fucked up shit in her life. Just because she's named after the Virgin Mary doesn't mean a damn thing, but some of her die-hard, obsessed fans will probably disagree with me. She's always been average, musically and in her appearance. I do disagree with the person who said that her dancing was mediocre. She got a full-paid dance scholarship to the University of Michigan. She's a very good dancer. I also think that she's an amazing business woman, but do I think that she can hold a candle to Prince, musicially...hells no! She can't hold a candle to Carol Kane IMO. Again let me stress that I never said that Madonna wasn't talented. Anyone who can last for 20 years based more off of shock tactics and image than musical skill is damn talented. Oh, shit, why did I just say that? Now the Madonna die-hards are going to get mad at me....again. Fuck it...yeah, I said it. Plus, to whoever keeps making those ignorant ass comments about how this is a Prince board so everyone is going to say Prince is the greatest. Yeah, that may be the case with some people here, but don't ASSume and think that everyone here is like that. You might want to learn how to use the word, "Some Prince fans", instead of "Prince Fans".

Wow somebody's cranky!
Madonna had more up her sleave than shock value. Prince made a career of shock as well, all or most of his somes are hardcore sex songs, he cross dressed and crap like that.
However Madonna's lyrics were much tamer than Prince's and she mannaged to never leave. Madonna had very good music, though she is not talented like Prince she is still a musician in her own rite, and again to deny this is ignorance. And when she said Madonna's greatness, she meant her success and worldwide fanbase, she never made referrences to God, so please calm down.
Have you ever watched "Evita," please do and then tell me she didn't have talent to begin with. No producers or record labels would be willing to throw their money away if they didn't see something talented in Madonna originally.

jayaredee said:

Hey, when someone throws around the word, "sexiest" about a true fact, than it would give anyone the right to be upset. I agree that Madonna was very good in "Evita". She's not nearly as pretty as the real Eva Peron, but she did a good job in the role. Of course, I don't think Halle Barry was anywhere near as beautiful as Dorothy Dandridge and J.Lo was an insult to the beauty of the real Selena IMO. Honestly, I like Madonna's films more than Prince's. She was good in "Girl 6" also. Where are you getting this stuff about me saying she wasn't talented? I've repeatedly said that she is talented (re-read that previous post, my dear), but the title of this thread is "Madonna Vs Prince", which is what I'm going off of. I've heard that, "Prince used shock tactics and dressed provocatively too" line more than once on a Madonna thread. It's older than last Sunday's news. Sure, Prince came out wearing underwear on the outside of his clothes and he did it before Madonna did. So, basically, she's just taking cues from him. It's not original or different, never was, but it made people notice her. Just like her provocative videos and outlandish behavior made people notice her. The huge difference is that Prince has slowed down on the shock tactics, but just last September, I watched a 45-year-old Madonna have a three way makeout session with two girls. Why is she continuing to do the shock tactic stuff if she doesn't need it? I saw her in the 20/20 interview and she couldn't even answer the question when Barbara asked her why she did that. She knows why she did it, because it keeps her in the spotlight. Something that even her best songs can't do. But, hey, if she likes doing shocking things to get attention, than that's her, but does it mean that she's an amazing, irreplaceable talent, not necessarily. There have been tons of Madonna clones who are making a fortune right now....Britney Spears being the main one and you don't want to hear how some hardcore Britney fans feel about Madonna. There are a lot of Prince clones also, but they don't have all the skills that Prince has. Madonna's good at what she does and Prince is good at what he does. The words, "Madonna's Greatness", sounds like this person put her in the same category as God, otherwise, they would have just said, "Madonna's Success" or "Huge popularity". Prince has produced more than 90% of his songs by himself...90% of Madonna's hits and albums were produced by other people and she got co-writing credit on them. That right there is the main reason why the two should never be compared. She doesn't have to play any instruments, in fact, I would prefer her not to if she's just trying to prove to the critics and her fans that she can do it. The only reason I feel that she's an icon is because she's been around for soo long and that does deserve some respect in such a frugile industry.

I didn't mean for my comments to be quoted off you, even though i did, it was for other people in this thread.
Fair enough, i do agree Madonna used great shock in her career to get further. But i think after her kiss with Britney she will relize she can't use shock anymore because it didn't help either of them.
I feel the shock thing is getting old and won't hold up, in fact i feel in years the music industry will have a great downfall because people are getting tired of this crap.
Oh well, im sorry if my post offended you and sorry about my quick judgement.

estelle1981 said:

Preach on my sista preach on!

estelle1981 said:

I cant even remember the last time i was shocked by something madonna did....can u???Certainly not in at least a decade, and Madonna has been extremely successful in that time. I cant understand why you are so down on other people admiring madonna and thinking she is GREAT. Unlike you evidently, I seem to be able to seperate my admiration for Madonna from my absolute respect, admiration and love for Prince. I dont feel obliged to hold everything Prince is great at against Madonna because she cant do the same. I take each artist at face value and if i enjoy their stuff i enjoy it, if i dont ill say so. In Madonnas case i just happen to be able to appreciate each song or tour in the context of her staying on top in the pop music industry for 20 years. In Princes case i judge it in the context of his absolute genius. Neither artist is faultless.

This thread is so dumb. Threads like this simply encourage haters of a particular artist to come on here and slag them. Pointless, bitchy and and in the end fruitless. What do they achieve but get a whole bunch of people wound up. Can we talk about Prince now.....

estelle1981 said:

The point not being whether she "slept her way to the top" or not is true, it's the implication that is, yes, sexist. First of all, why are men never accused of "sleeping their way to the top"? Is it because they are considered full-thinking adults who can make their own choices without public condemnation quite so easily splayed all over them? Is it because women are not in power positions to give them the opportunity? Is it because men are assumed to naturally have more talent and gusto so that their sleeping habits are irrelevant to their success? Or on deeper analysis, maybe there's a certain double standard that women must be sexpots in order to get noticed, but damn them, if they succeed! How many female pop stars would there be if sex appeal was not a part of their act? And who says that Madonna didn't enjoy "sleeping her way to the top"? Maybe she was genuinely attracted to her liaisons. So what? It seems that the producers or whoever she was bunking may have just as much to gain as she did. Maybe they were "sleeping their way to the top" by bunking her! Prince had affairs with many of his business associates and fellow performers, including those who may have had more prestige and benefitted his career. Do people say that he "slept his way to the top"? It's such a ridiculous phrase -- as many others on this thread have pointed out.

And by the way, I'm hardly obsessed with Madonna. I'm a rather lukewarm fan. But I'm a big Prince fan and not ashamed to proclaim his "Greatness" in all its colors!! May the heroes live on!!!!!

I agree...this is kind of a dumb thread.

heartbeatocean said:

Now, I'm very confused. You're upset with me saying that Madonna slept her way to the top, because I didn't say that some famous men have done the same thing??? When did I imply otherwise? There are a lot of men in the spotlight who slept their ways to the top also. Brad Pitt is one of the main ones to come to mind at the moment. He dated alot of top actresses in Hollywood who helped him get his foot in the door, but I'm sure someone will debate this with me. I hate double standards. Men are just as much whores as women if they sleep with lots of people. I see no difference. Plus, I don't throw around terms like "sexist", "racist", "misogynist", etc, based off of an assumption. But, whatever runs your motor.

CrozzaUK said:

You totally lost me when you used the term "hater". That's the most close-minded expression on the planet. Just because someone doesn't have the same feelings as another person on a certain subject, that person is automatically a hater? I was just going off of the subject of the thread and stating MY opinion and some individuals took MY opinion to heart. I have no problem debating differences in opinions, because there's always the possibility of learning something new from another person, but when that other person starts name-calling and disrespecting MY opinion, than they had better be ready for the thunderstorm. Disagreeing is one thing, but disrespecting is another. Plus, you're right. I haven' been shocked by Madonna since.....well, I was never really shocked as much as I was amazed by her ever changing persona. It was interesting. But, no one can deny that that was the whole basis behind that VMA performance. They could have totally left that out and the performance would have been better to me.



Honestly, anyone how has posted anything in this thread may not be able to separate as much as they may think they can, especially since the title of this thread is "Madonna Vs Prince". Like I said, I think they are both good in their own different ways and they really are nothing alike. They've both said and done some contradictory things over the years, but neither of them are perfect. I still think that they're 10 times more talented than all of their clones.

Madonna's beautiful voice? oh, come on...

apple2 said:

I guess you truly believe that he wrote "Betcha By Golly Wow","La La Means I Love You","One Of Us","I Can't Make You Love Me" and "Everyday Is A Winding Road"?

estelle1981 said:

In a mid-90s interview,Kurt Loder asked Madonna if she slept her way to the top.She laughed and replied "If it were only that easy"

This kinda thread makes me ashamed to visit a message board. It's all so 4th grade

CalhounSq said:

I hear ya! Some fans like to keep playing that tired "My artist is better than your artist" game...lol...it's all so silly and childish.


Yo moderator...kill this thread!